nemesis8679

6 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

No thanks, your opinion really isn't that important to me.   I just try to generate some discussion on an otherwise dull message board lately!

So you're supposedly here to learn about hockey, however don't want to listen to and disregard people who have lived it and experienced it for years? Got it. 

1 hour ago, twoboys said:

Wrong.  Pens and Esmark are playing each other at 15, 16 and 18 this year.  The games are in December.

That's good. Preds, Icemen, or Vengeance be playing either of those organizations? 

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, these kids went to tryouts and were placed on these teams.  Sounds more like a PAHL issue to me! I sometimes think that jealousy is what motivates people to comment about the extra A's thrown out!  Why else would it get so many comments on these sites?

Because it has ruined hockey and hockey development in this area. 

And yeah, some kids went to tryouts and got placed on a team. That's great. But if you think for a second all those teams are taking the best kids available for every position, you either have your head in the sand, are misinformed, or have a kid that is on a AA team that is there firstly because of encumbancy or another connection and secondly because of hockey. There's a lot of AA players (and some AAA as well) in this area that wouldn't even crack the first line or first d-pairing on the "lower" team. 

But you probably don't want to hear that. 

Both ways have their pros and cons, but MHR seems to get it pretty close as the season progresses. But at the same time, you'll pull your hair out trying to makes sense of everything. Hockey has so many variables, you can have a team beat another team ranked quite higher by several goals while the next game against a much lower ranked team you can lose to. You can lose to a much higher ranked team and watch a team you clobbered beat that team. You can get generally pretty close, but there's too many variables to be 100% accurate for either system. 

You and I both know that the teams around here, at least, aren't going to play each other unless tournament fate somewhere pits them against each other. We all know why. 

8 hours ago, Saucey said:

Definitely some teams that should have been placed differently. There are kids who can barely skate on some these teams. Yay for the watering of AA.

Bro, who cares if they can skate or not. They have the extra "A", right? You don't want to play on one of the lowly "A" teams and actually be able to contribute to the team, you know? 

By the same token, Johnson's own teammates, who were at or on the ice and know more about hockey than anybody on this forum, are sticking by Petgrave not having done this on purpose. 

In a statement released on the day of the incident, the Panthers, who play in the Elite Ice Hockey League, said the death was a “freak accident” and they were “devastated”.

But in response to claims on social media that Petgrave had deliberately kicked Johnson, Panthers player Victor Bjorkung made his own statement, saying he did not blame him for the incident.

He told Swedish newspaper Expressen: “What Matt (Petgrave) has experienced is unimaginable. I don’t understand how some people can behave, it’s inhuman. I have texted him and expressed how I feel about everything and I support him. No one in our team thinks it’s his fault, quite the opposite. We are a big family and he can contact us if he needs it. I was a couple of metres away, so if anyone experienced it as it really was, then it was me.”

I recall there was ONE game my kid played against a Badgers team where their players and parents acted like human beings the whole game. It really was shocking. I was pretty surprised. 

9 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

If you've watched enough Law and Order, a lot of perps like to be a part of the action like the arsonist who stays around to watch.

I could point out that unfortunately what happened wasn't part of a fiction television drama. 

5 hours ago, ANKLEBENDER said:

It does not seem accidental and obviously I dont think he intended to kill him.  However it was purposly reckless and that is the type of player he is, especially when reviewing his history. 

I agree 100% with the original poster with his actions after the incident. He knew what he did and that he was guilty, he literally & figuratively distances himself from the crime. Detectives talk about this subconscous reaction all the time.

I don't know what can be "proved" and what laws govern here, but in general it seems like negligent manslaughter

He did distance himself. I would've, too, probably. While it's true a guilty person might do that, they also might not. Taken on its own, that means nothing. 

Many times these freak-accident kind of things look or appear bizarre, or don't play out how we logically think they would, because the circumstance itself is bizarre. It's how accidents happen. 

Only Petgrave knows 100% guaranteed whether he meant to do it or not. But I still think if we're basing assumptions on a video from one angle, there's nothing there to say it was intentional. Saying about "the type of player he is" means nothing here. There's many, many players of that type and has been and will be. If that were a Lady Byng nominee instead of Petgrave, would we be having this conversation? 

8 minutes ago, powderfinger said:

my god, you literally have no f'in clue. He led to his own demise.

How so? Apparently he's not that bad if another school hired him. Shaler looks strong so far, I'd say he's doing good. 

I'd also like to note that although USA Hockey doesn't mandate neck guards (although they "highly recommend" wearing one... seems like some legal-liability theory they're testing, not fully wanting to take one side or the other), PAHL and PIHL both do mandate them. That said, I can count on one hand the times I saw this enforced in PAHL, and I've never seen it enforced in PIHL (not surprising, I guess, in a league where charging is never called and full-force checks are seemingly legal 5 or 6 seconds after the puck is moved). 

I have said for years that if something unfortunate happened, not even a death but a serious neck cut, there would be lawsuits against the league, personal lawsuits against the officials, the team's board, every coach on the bench, etc. For a school team it would include the school district, the athletic director (I'm not even sure most school athletic directors are even aware the school has a hockey team), etc. 

Knowing this, you would think the leagues, the boards, and the schools would be adamant that this rule be enforced. If I'm the coach, the kids wear them or sorry, you don't go on the ice. Whether I think they work or not (for the record I do- if nothing else it's an obstacle for a blade to get through where even if it does, it will minimize the injury), I'm not taking that liability. I find it nuts that so many do. My kid knows that if I see him on the ice without it, I'll pull him right off. 

If a cut happened, I'm not confident that a rink EMS person would even know where to begin to help in that circumstance. Not to mention the independant games where you can do whatever the hell you want and there may or may not even be a medic in the building at all. Better hope someone's parent is a trauma doctor. 

I predict this will now be the flavor of the month with school boards and the leagues. I'll be interested to see how everybody enforces this now, and for how long. I predict the independant teams probably won't enforce it at all, and PAHL and PIHL will enforce it for the next two weeks. Maybe a month. I hope I'm wrong. 

I don't think it was on purpose. A player being a goon and having been suspended or getting a bunch of penalty minutes doesn't equate to assuming he would try to cut someone with a skate. Along with boarding, kicking is one of those things you just don't do. And I don't think he did. What I think happened (keep in mind we're not dealing with a player who is the greatest skater nor the quickest thinker out on the ice) is that he is moving with some speed, gets tripped up, and his legs fly up in the air. He sees Johnson coming towards him and instinctually and clumsily tries brace himself for collision, even maybe to kick his skate out of the way. Because of the how fast this all happened and due to him and Johnson both moving at different speeds, he had about a half-second to decide what was going on. Unfortunately, skate met Johnson's neck. 

I feel awful for Johnson, his family, and teammates and friends. I also feel terrible for Petgrave. I'm sure the last thing he needs on top of the tragedy is being accused of killing the man. 

That said, I have no problem with people asking the question. But a big problem with people just accusing the guy without seeing a transcript of the statement he gave to investigators and  not knowing anything other than seeing a video from one angle that doesn't tell the whole story. 

9 hours ago, sample39 said:

I concur.  These 6 teams should be in the same section based on history and geography.  This is what happens though when you have an A division with 24 teams.  More than double the size of AAA and AA.  

I believe one of the initial goals of the "3 Year Formula" before it was abandoned was to promote and reward teams for moving up a classification.  What instead has happened are teams are fighting to get moved down, or refusing to get moved up. Hence the logjam we now have in A. 

Realignment at this point is necessary, whether programs like it or not. 

Reward teams for moving up, how? By moving them into a higher division when they graduate their best players and don't replace them? I wouldn't want that "reward", either. 

For the problems the org we're at may have, that's not one of them. 

That place sucks. Hate going there. Same with Palmer. Though at Palmer I'm not sure it's homerism as much as not wanting to be shanked by a Badgers parent. 

Limited number of refs even willing to work at those places. 

Shadyside has plenty of ice time available. I've heard that when the rink was built there was very little to no perpetual fund to keep it maintained, and now they have opened it up periodically to rent for outside use. Maybe a possible option if they need to reschedule a handful of games?

5 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Especially when we have so many "faux" AAA teams whom water down the AA. Like that doesn't happen anywhere else in the country except Western PA.

I'm sure it happens elsewhere to a point. But not sure it's to the extent it is here. Just look around. The bottom half of most AA teams are interchangeable with the top half of A Major. And the AAA teams the same thing with AA (and even some A players mixed in). 

You can say what you want, but there is room for a maximum of 2 AAA teams around here. But the scumbags pocketing the money from the faux AAA teams need to fill those rosters to maximum size somehow. How else can you collect all those season fees and extra skills and extra gym fees? 

When anyone asks what has ruined hockey in this area, there's a few answers. But this is the main contributor. 

3 hours ago, Stanley PK said:

Alot of AA and AAA players are out of town this weekend in Detroit and Buffalo. Games started this morning for them, so I'm sure some teams were short some of their usual talent last night, my son's included.

So... then the teams you played against also didn't have their AA or AAA players. 

It's like saying my baseball team lost because it was raining. Meanwhile it was raining for the other team, too. 

15 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

Never say Never................Mike Sargo who scored over 300 points at WVU, 100 Goals in Class AAA at Gateway and is in the ACHA Hall of Fame was given an opportunity to skate with AHL Wilke Barre Scranton Penguins .............kids that do exceptional things get opportunity against the norm ..............It happened ! 

He had some unbelievable stats (averaging 5 goals a game his senior year?!) in high school and really good numbers in ACHA, and seems to be a good guy. Yet, dude still didn't get further than an AHL training camp. 

Further proof that little Johnny averaging a PPG in PAHL AA or the local faux-AAA team should just be concentrating on having a good time playing with his friends while it lasts. 

23 hours ago, ice is cold said:

 🤷🤔I don't know about any of you, but I'd rather my kid come out with a good job vs trophy and a secured spot on the top beer league team.  

Hey, there's always the Fed league. 

41 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Thanks, I sure will!  As long as they love the game and have good coaches at what ever level they are playing I will keep cheering them on! Sure won't put down the organizations that are providing the teams and coaches for the kids!

While your cheerleading of hockey organizations and coaches is commendable and I mostly agree, let's not pretend that every organization and coach is doing what they're doing because of altruism. 

On 9/24/2023 at 9:17 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Why do you care?  According to your logic there should only be maybe 10 AAA teams in the country!  Would that make you happy?  Why are you always so negative? Should the teams that finish near the bottom in the NHL fold because they aren't competitive?  The people on here who judge the level of hockey played in this area annoy me to no end!  Who really cares?  Let the kids play without your criticism!  How about admiring them for putting it all out there!  95% are playing as hard as they can for the love of the sport! 

The AA Triple A teams have killed hockey around here. 

Out of curiosity, why are the 18u AA Vipers in PAHL while both 16u & 15u AA Vipers aren't? I thought all their teams were independent. 

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Ice Rink ownership is a business just like GM, Ford, Samsung Apple, etc.   I'm sure they could all have beautiful facilities but then you couldn't afford to play!  Does anyone realize how much money was pumped into the area this weekend from that Tier 1 Hockey Federation Showcase?  Who really cares how good the Hockey was!  I would much rather have the revenue at Hotels and restaurants in the area from this tournament.  These kids played their hearts out this weekend in Pittsburgh!  Maybe the facilities aren't perfect and the Hockey wasn't the best but they were out there competing and giving their best effort.  All you haters need to find some other sport to complain about!

If I was paying that kind of money and that kind of commitment, yes I would care how good the hockey was. Maybe if you cared the same, things would be better with hockey in this area.