RJUSHL

It appears that this year all Preds birth year teams from 08 and down (08, 09, 10, 11, and maybe 12) are playing an independent schedule and not playing in PAHL. This certainly continues to weaken AA PAHL hockey which is disappointing. Many other younger Squirt and Peewee teams are doing this as well.

Do you think this trend will continue? Birth year teams are not going anywhere. Parents want it and it's just not going to change. Organizations that have been stubborn about not having BY teams have been losing out to organizations that do. Would having AA Major and Minor divisions at the Squirt and Peewee level make a difference and keep some of the better teams in PAHL?

12 minutes ago, BeaverFalls said:

i think they are using them as a placeholder. This years registered teams under last year’s placement. 

I think you are exactly right! They received all the registered teams from PAHL and then just slotted them in on their own under placements from last year. So it includes current registered PAHL teams and that explains how they seem to know which teams are now independent, etc. 

54 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Oh my god. ? Regardless, it doesn't mean anything at this stage in the game.  

No one said it did mean anything. No problem if you're not interested in this discussion. Thanks for letting us all know.

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

Ever consider that there is an MHR volunteer on the PAHL placement committee?  The committee has a few left brained mathy types, which coincidentally fits the profile of most MHR volunteers.

Yea that wouldn't surprise me.

34 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

@Saucey is right on this. The divisions haven't been set yet at PAHL. 

That data is, as far as I can tell, entered by volunteers. I do not believe that PAHL does anything with MHR.

Did PAHL assign the three digit code that is used by My Hockey Rankings?

6 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

The divisions I’m familiar with are the exact same as what they were last year; to include teams that played in an age group last year that aren’t even fielding a team in that age group this year. 

If that’s the case then I may be completely wrong here.

The divisions I’m looking at aren’t the same as last year and they seem to reflect some very accurate info on where I would’ve expected teams to be. 

We’ll see! I saw it yesterday and thought it was interesting so I posted it. 

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

One last time...PAHL did not send data because there is none to send. Placement games haven't happened, the PAHL placement committee has not met. People are guessing or other people are reporting it. For instance, I am not aware that the Pittsburgh Vipers are fielding a 16u AA team this year yet they are in there. 

You sound like a new squirt parent, squirts get placed later than all the other ages, too. You can relax, nothing has happened yet.

? Definitely not a new squirt parent!

Does PAHL create the three digit team code or is that someone else?

I see what you're saying Saucey but it doesn't add up. I think My Hockey Rankings is reporting preliminary (based on PAHL database and teams self-placement) and what we are seeing are the PAHL preliminary placements. They gave the info to My Hockey Rankings. Of course those preliminary placements are subject to change based on placement games and other factors.

From what I can see, the info is pretty accurate and complete. More than what would be possible with all those teams just self-reporting. They clearly had PAHL help.

22 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I doubt PAHL sent any thing, divisions haven't been set. My guess is self reporting or people looking at organization websites.

 

That kind of makes sense but it doesn't add up. For example, how would they look at the Preds website and know that their 2009 team is playing independent? They are playing independent, and that matches up with them missing from the 12U AA division on the site. They can't find that looking at a website. I have about a half dozen other examples similar to that. I think PAHL sent MyHockeyRankings the data before they released on their website. Seems strange but I think that's what happened. 

2 hours ago, carroll81 said:

It is primarily done by volunteers:

https://myhockeyrankings.com/report_scores.php

I know the scores are reported and corrected by volunteers and self-submissions. But this is different than that. It'll be interesting to see in a few weeks if this lines up with PAHLs preseason placements. 

14 minutes ago, Saucey said:

My guess is self reporting or people looking at organization websites.

I was thinking self reporting as well, but the numbers assigned to teams looks like how PAHL assigns numbers. There is too much info here for it to be self-reporting. I think PAHL sent them the data.

1 hour ago, BeaverFalls said:

this is last season’s placements. 

It's listed as 2021-2022 season, and the team numbers are not the same as last year. It's definitely this upcoming season.

Does PAHL send data to MyHockeyRankings.com before they even start listing preseason placements on the PAHL website?

For example...

https://myhockeyrankings.com/league_info.php?l=9

Drilling down into some of the divisions, the data seems fairly accurate. For example several former PAHL teams that have decided to go independent this upcoming season not listed in any of the divisions. Other examples make me think this is fairly accurate info.

Maybe it's always been like this, but I haven't noticed it before. 

On 7/27/2021 at 7:48 AM, bb2j3z said:

I think it's difficult to say if an organization as a whole is good or not...  usually the politics will reside with the coaches and parents of a particular team.    It's best to do your research and get to know the coaches possibly the parents before you make a switch.    In a head coach bio, you might be able to find out how long they have been in an organization.   It's not even clear what age group you are in.    Sometimes it will not always been greener on another organization.   We had a really good experience with our head coach and parents last year, when in previous years, you would get a few kids move on to the Predators or PPE year after year.    So we all came back this season or at least tried out for the same team.    This is our team 1 for squirts at South Pittsburgh Rebellion at Southpointe... most are 2011, 2nd yr squirts.     I know a few parents on the 2011 Predators team and they have been positive about their experiences there + I like the facility and that they have two sheets of ice..  we usually go there for Quest summer league.   

Two sheets of ice is HUGE. I think the second sheet at Southpointe is going to start slowly shifting some south hills kids that way. I think some school districts are already planning the move to Southpointe (besides just Peters, Canon Mac, and Trinity). I also think the southern beltway is going to start brining some Robinson and west hills kids to Southpointe. Will be such an easy drive and I think driving is always an aspect that is a bigger deal than people like to admit.

Congrats to Ty and his family! The journey has just begun!

I haven't seen him play that I can remember. What about his game put him in this position? He doesn't have elite size and he hasn't exactly put up a ton of points, even at 15U and 14U with the Pens, where I would've thought he'd dominate.

I know it doesn't apply to Ty, but it was nice to see so many college kids get drafted the past few days. It even seems like there's an uptick of USHL kids getting their name called! I'd love to see that trend continue.

32 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

For my money American hockey in general, and Western Pennsylvanian hockey very much in particular, is full of kids with great hands and impressive skating and the hockey sense of a baseball player.

Couldn't agree more.

21 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

My thought is that if there were great advantages to playing the puck "creatively" in the neutral zone without delayed offsides, NHL hockey would look alot different already since they'd have found the most creative possible ways to play the puck.

You're absolutely right about that. There are some huge tactical advantages to utilizing delayed offsides and also dumping the puck in deep. I'm not saying those two things are one-in-the-same, but they play off each other. NHL teams utilize both because it's smart to do so.

But that's kind of my point. When the option is available, teams at all levels will utilize the leeway given to them. I think it's smart to take that option away from younger players. Instead of putting the puck into an area and then chasing it down, it's smart to force younger players to make tape to tape passes and keep possession at all costs.  That's a much harder skill to learn than just putting the puck into an area.

I'm all for rules that cut down on the number of dump ins. Defenseman win those most of the time anyways. I want to challenge kids to make clean zone entries. And when their entry fails make them regroup and move the puck around and try again.

I don't think there is any doubt that eliminating delayed offsides will reduce the number of dump and chase scenarios. How much? I'm not sure.

Loved the documentary! It was a balanced look at a complicated issue. The tell-tale sign of someone who has no idea what they are talking about is that they think they have all the answers. I like that you didn't try and present some perfect solution. I for sure would love to see a followup. 

I certainly don't have all the answers but my gut feeling would be to introduce checking at the 10U level when even the largest kids on the ice usually top out at less than 100 pounds. But then at the same time have extreme penalties for leaving your feet, making any contact whatsoever with the head, hitting anything except front of jersey, and be super harsh and picky about boarding. I think kids need to develop these skills before they hit puberty. Would also teach awareness to the head down tiny forwards.

Football is certainly an easier sport to learn than hockey, but kids are tackling and learning how to tackle at a young age. You always have really good athletes that start football later, maybe middle school or high school. Oftentimes these kids excel eventually but for the first month or so they are a danger to themselves and others. They don't yet know how to tackle or be tackled, but they are big, fast, and strong. It's dangerous for everyone. Some work through that, others get hurt and never play again.

My thoughts could easily end up being wrong.

Love the removal of the delayed offsides. It will lead to a more puck possession style of game, increased awareness and passing, and cut down on dump and chase scenarios. It's also going to make neutral zone play a lot more exciting. I think it will be good for development. I'm all for ways to emphasize skill development. This checks that box for sure.

The argument "they need to learn it at some point so might as well start young" is ridiculous. Good players can learn delayed offsides in a single practice. The implementation and strategy around delayed offsides will take two practices.

Looks like 5 out of the 92 2005 kids invited to camp are Pittsburgh kids. All five are Pens from what I can tell.

Any of them have a good change of making the U17 team?

https://teamusa.usahockey.com/page/show/6433428-2021-boys-select-16-2021-boys-select-16s-pdc

51 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I don't think we should be overly worried about young birth years. Technically there is no AAA at those levels. Just get good coaching and privates, then worry about AAA at bantams. That's the way it used to be.

The only worry is needless and excessive practice travel distance multiple times per week for the families that want to commit to AAA hockey in their younger years. I agree with Black Bear (if it really is how they feel) that the south hills needs a high level option for these kids, above and beyond what PAHL offers. Right now all of those options are very far for south hills kids.

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

Sigh. Most likely just adds to the alphabet soup. Do people really think AAA talent is hiding in the South Hills because of an willingness to travel north that is not already playing as high as they could?

But not surprising, Blackbear has their AAA options....

I think to a small degree, yes, some AAA talent is hiding in the South Hills, especially in the younger (2011, 2010, 2009, 2008) birth years. And I do think travel plays a big role in that. It's always funny how each year some of the better AA teams at Preds, SHAHA, and Southpointe lose kids to the Pens or Vengeance. Preds 09 team is an example of this. Many times the kids that are lost are not the best ones on their AA teams, they're just the ones willing to spend hours and hours driving to practice each week. And an indirect result of this commute time is that these kids turn into one sport athletes at a young age. The commuting doesn't allow time for football, soccer, etc.

It'll be interesting to see if it happens, but I can see the point that a AAA type program in the south hills could be a huge magnet. It's not easy to get from from Bethel to Alpha Ice for example. 45 minutes on a good day, 1 hour+ during even moderate traffic. A 15 minute drive to Southpointe would be a huge benefit for a lot of kids and families. 

What I wonder is how much of a hand Black Bear would have in this? Would the new Rebellion spearhead the effort, or would it mainly be guided and directed by Black Bear? Not sure how those relationships work.

Speaking of Black Bear and how they'll impact the youth hockey landscape in Pittsburgh, there's been some talk that they recognize the need for a legit Tier I program in the south hills. With the second sheet of ice coming to Southpointe (owned by Black Bear), I would guess that would be the landing spot.

There's also been talk of the South Pittsburgh Rebellion running AAA teams out of Southpointe under the Rebellion name. Easier said than done but the thinking is that it's ridiculous how many south hills (USC, Bethel, Lebo, Canon Mac, TJ, Peters, SF) players travel north to Pens or even the Vengeance. I swear some of those birth years have more south hills kids than not. The new southern beltway that will be open this fall makes Southpointe a simple drive even for kids in the West A, Robinson, Moon areas as well.