Jkersman01

Here is the round robin schedule for girls as it relates to local teams- Thursday, March 30 3:30PM 14U (3) Pens vs. (14) Mid Fairfield Stars 11:15AM 16U Steel City Selects vs. Philadelphia Jr. Flyers 11:30AM 16U (7) Pens vs. (10) Philadelphia Jr. Flyers 3:15PM 19U Armstrong Arrows vs. Philadelphia Jr. Flyers 3:15PM 19U Steel City Selects vs. Premier Prep Royal 5:00PM 14U S Pittsburgh Rebellion vs. Hockey Club Fairbanks 5:00PM 14U Steel City Selects vs. Philadelphia Jr. Flyers Friday, March 31 11:00AM 19U Armstrong Arrows vs. Montana Wolves 11:00AM 19U Steel City Selects vs. Mid Fairfield Stars 1:15PM 14U Steel City Selects vs. Valley Jr. Warriors 2:30PM 14U (3) Pens vs. (11) Team Colorado 3:05PM 14U S Pittsburgh Rebellion vs. Nashville Jr. Predators 3:30PM 16U (7) Pens vs. (15) Team Colorado 6:55PM 16U Steel City Selects vs. Casco Bay Mariners Saturday, April 1 10:50AM 14U S Pittsburgh Rebellion vs. Adirondack Northstars 11:05AM 14U Steel City Selects vs. Philadelphia Jr. Flyers 11:15AM 14U (3) Pens vs. (6) Team Illinois 2:30PM 16U (7) Pens vs. (2) Assabet Valley 2:40PM 16U Steel City Selects vs. Glenview Stars 4:40PM 19U Armstrong Arrows vs. South Anchorage Oilers 4:55PM 19U Steel City Selects vs. East Coast Wizards

Here is the round robin schedule for the boys as it relates to local teams- Wednesday, March 29 12:30PM 15U (9) Pens vs. (8) Mid Fairfield Jr Rangers 2:45PM 14U (10) Vengeance vs. (7) Buffalo Saints 4:15PM 16U (11) Barons vs. (6) Detroit Little Caesars 4:30PM 14U (3) Pens vs. (14) Valley Forge 5:00PM 18U (6) Pens vs. (11) Buffalo Regals Thursday, March 30 10:00AM 15U (9) Pens vs. (1) Detroit Little Caesars 12:30PM 14U (10) Vengeance vs. (2) Chicago Mission 2:15PM 16U (11) Barons vs. (3) North Jersey Avalanche 2:30PM 14U (3) Pens vs. (11) Boston Jr. Eagles 2:30PM 18U (6) Pens vs. (14) Anaheim Jr Ducks 3:00PM 18U Mt. Lebo Hornets vs. Team Ohio 3:15PM 14U North Pittsburgh vs. OC Hockey 6:45PM 16U Allegheny Badgers vs. Boston Jr. Eagles Friday, March 31 10:45AM 14U (10) Vengeance vs. (15) Carolina Jr Hurricanes 11:45AM 16U (11) Barons vs. (14) Seacoast Performance Academy 12:15PM 18U (6) Pens vs. (3) Rhode Island Saints 12:30PM 14U (3) Pens vs. (6) MN Lakers 1:00PM 16U Allegheny Badgers vs. Texas Tigers 2:00PM 18U Mt. Lebo Hornets vs. Minnesota Grey Ducks 5:00PM 15U (9) Pens vs. (16) Team North Dakota 5:00PM 14U North Pittsburgh vs. St. Louis Eagles Saturday, April 1 9:00AM 14U North Pittsburgh vs. Darien (CT) 10:15AM 16U Allegheny Badgers vs. Troy Sting 12:15PM 18U Mt. Lebo Hornets vs. Northern Michigan United

Games have started for the boys. The website to track the scores is https://nationals.usahockey.com/ To watch games, you'll need to subscribe @ http://usahockeytv.com/. Its $30 for a one month pass. You can watch a single game for $14.99. They're pretty strict about parents livestreaming the games, so if you're relying on that, I'm guessing they'll get shut down.

With the USA Hockey national tournament starting tomorrow, at some point, there will be something noteworthy. Might as well get the thread going.

No, not what I mean. Not too clear headed last night when I sent this. Shouldn’t have been as harsh. My bad. My point was basically that inappropriate parent behavior shouldn’t be tolerated just because a team or organization is ‘good’ on the ice. The targeted heckling of the kids would still happen, I assume, regardless of where I sit. It doesn’t solve the problem- just would make me oblivious to the fact there is one. In other words, I personally would want that addressed, not just segregated.

Lol. I’m all seriousness, I think the solution is rather simple. If the organization cares about its reputation in this regard, the team manager is to be held accountable for the behavior of the parents on the team. I’ve been team manager for many years and I’ve had to settle down fellow parents before.

So I’ve had a few pops. Neighbors just went home. Probably shouldn’t respond. But I’ll give it a go. There is so much wrong with this comment. Do you think that what we’re doing for our 12 year old children is about hockey? You do know that 99% (probably more, actually) of 12u PAHL players have no shot of long term development as it relates to NCAA Div 1, or some level of pro hockey, right? This isn’t about ignoring morales for the sake of development. It is about providing our young men and women the opportunity to develop a passion and learn life skills along the way. If they aren’t doing both, I want no part of it. Some people might think it’s ok to sacrifice one for the other. I won’t ignore the parental ‘model’ behavior for the sake of teaching my kid to make a few more dekes. We won’t see eye to eye on that, ever.

Thanks and cheers to this! Like I’ve said all along great team and players.

You’ve basically acknowledged that this happened, why do I need to corroborate this? This isn’t a hearing. You provided enough info on this board about the teams involved someone could do their research if they wanted, but frankly I don’t think anyone cares remotely that much. It is ridiculous that your justification for this ADULT fan behavior is that a CHILD was engaged with them in that same behavior. BE THE ADULT! If you went up to a 12 year old kid at the mall, in front of a cop, and started heckling him, you think the cop would be cool with it? But it’s OK in an ice rink? This is a thread about “crazy parents in PAHL”. Start one called “12 year old kids that you don’t like” if you want. Maybe I’m in the minority and am the only one who thinks it isn’t OK, no matter what happens, as an adult, to engage with a child-player on the other team. If that’s the case, shame on me for not being “passionate” enough. Again, like I already clarified, this is nothing against the team, kids or coaches. Great team. This is a thread about experiences with parents. When I hear an adult yell at my daughter, while she’s on the ice, that she shouldn’t play hockey because she’s a girl, pardon me for holding a grudge against a fanbase like that. If that would have been the only thing that happened, I wouldn’t have commented. But given the other stuff, it obviously isn’t a one-time, or one-parent, issue.

Good timing- was just checking out the board when I saw this. They do have a nice group of players- a good team for sure. They might be very well building a solid program. My comment had nothing to do with the players, coaches, or organization for that matter. That's why I limited it to a specific team. As to the parents this year, I wasn't going to get into details and hoping a passing comment would be enough of a contribution to this discussion, but since you asked and want support because you might be challenging my statement (and this is all first hand knowledge)- -Yelling and taunting a kid from another team on the ice during a game, as he walked off, and making comments to him while he walked through the lobby -Screaming at their team to "take out #..." when they were losing -Having a parent, during the handshake line, yell "girls shouldn't be playing hockey" to the 2 girls on the opposing team in a game they lost -Parents, on 2 occasions in just 3 games I saw, got kicked out of the stands for going at the refs (verbally) My point of "taking the cake" is that at 11-12 years old, I've never seen parents, during and after a game, taunting and interacting with the opposing team's players like they did.

You do, on average (each year is different) see some decent roster turnover at lower birth years. That's mainly because they field 2 teams per birth year. The gold team doesn't turn over much (maybe 1 or 2 a year), but the black team has a tendency to do that. After 1-2 years on the black team, some of the parents are starting to realize the writing is on the wall and their days are numbered. They, either individually or with a group of a few teammates, are starting to look at other orgs to find a home earlier. Many of these black team parents, lately at least, would prefer getting into Vengeance (starting at 10U) or Esmark (starting at 12U) if their kid can make it. Then, they're back to playing on a "top team" and situated (hopefully) in the organization sooner. I'm not saying there is a mass exodus each year for the black teams, but it definitely happens, to a different degree each year.

Got it. I misinterpreted it. Thanks. Makes sense

Talk about crazy parents. That 12u AA aviators team takes the cake in my book.

I don’t mean for this to come across as snarky, but isn’t that what most PAHL teams do?

I don’t know much more, if any more, than you about Black Bear. But the major difference between the two seems to be that Black Bear is more about hard assets (buying the rinks) and the annuity that local orgs and leagues can bring. I know that might sound ridiculous being the regional leagues they have, but my understanding is that’s really only designed for the top teams and girls teams. I don’t see, or hear, where they’re pushing Squirt B teams to play the regional hockey league. Seems like they are aiming to keep their local league affiliations but use them selectively. I can say with virtual certainty that the Legacy model really was stretched during COVID. Look on the girls side- Premier Ice Prospects acquisition is a good example. What states could even host tournaments for 12-18 months? Maybe being grass roots was better than some monstrosity at that point. Especially in the north (hockey region of US) where restrictions were tighter. If you’re an investor, do you cut bait or withstand a capital call? I’ve heard there were some weak grips at legacy, being predominantly a tourney company, that would rather cut losses and get out than invest and hold firm. Especially considering legacy was virtually all payroll- easy to unload compared to owning rinks.

Thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression the other one was injured, not suspended. I’ll trust your info over mine.

You can see their rosters on the website. They have more. They normally take somewhere between 15 and 18 skaters. I do know 14u had some injuries. I’m assuming 15u did too but I don’t have any first hand knowledge of that.

I’m not so sure. I agree with fafa fohi. The #6 18u team lost to the #2 team. That 08 Vengeance team is for real. No shame there. Maybe their ego took a hit but those were good teams they lost to. I wouldn’t call them upsets even though the 08 game looked like it was on paper. The 16u team has done this same thing each year for a while. Started off well and faded. There seem to be some issues there- maybe it’s on ice coaching or off ice coach ‘recruiting’ I wouldn’t know or have an opinion really.

I don't know. I think that's ambiguous. After reading the complaint (I geeked out on this over the past hour), a couple things don't sit right with me. 1. Montour is alleging that the virtually entirely undocumented exchange that occurred on April 13, 2022 was the commissioner approving the goalie- even though the email doesn't mention him or his situation really. For this to be true, not only would the goalie need to know he made the Esmark team by April 13, but would have already had the billet family all lined up. If you look, Esmark 2007 BY team, tryouts didn't end until 4/17/22. Not saying they didn't already promise him a spot on the team (I know that happens a lot), but to have the billet situation all figured out even before tryouts ended would be a new one for me. I have billeted before, and typically understand that matching up process happening shortly after tryouts. 2. The definition of "Transfer" really is a bit vague. It's Section 2.1 of the PIHL playing rules. A Transfer occurs "in any situation in which a student enrolls at or attends a school after having previously been enrolled at or attended any other school, without reference to the time interval between their departure from the one school and their enrollment at the other." You'll see that the definition of whether a Transfer occurs doesn't reference grade at all. Therefore, by a plain reading of this, a 4th grader could be a transfer. However, 2.1B, entitled TRANSFER RELEVANCE, states "FOR PLAYER ELIGIBILITY PURPOSE, the transfer rules in this Section shall only apply to 9th through 12 grade students and all grade levels for foreign students." Per my reading, if someone moves to a district at the end of 4th grade to start 5th grade, he or she is technically a Transfer. However, the eligibility rules don't apply because we're only worried about Transfer eligibility from 9-12 grade. It seems to me the spirit of the rule is to have it apply to this goalie (since it seems to be addressing JV and Varsity eligibility, it would be odd that Freshman have a difference set of rules), but I agree there is some ambiguity here. They probably should have noted he was a transfer on the roster, and they did not. I actually know the Montour team manager. Good person and good family. Hard worker and helps any time she can. I'm not blaming her for not marking him as a transfer, but had she done that, I think that could have tipped the scales for Montour here (if the judge doesn't side with them based on facts as presented already). I'll stop rambling...

As you guessed I have no idea what they have. But like Pucks said, I made a rather fundamental assumption that if PIHL had paperwork that approved this player, we wouldn’t have gotten to where we are now, and that the hearings would have produced this and montour would be just fine. If PIHL does have such paperwork, wow, this is an even bigger mess and Montour is entirely a victim. I put the odds of that rather low, though, based on getting to where we are now. I don’t know that group personally, but have practiced law for a while. When representing a plaintiff in a civil suit, especially such as here were the fee is presumably either pro bono or hourly (so it’s not tied to percentages of damages), attorneys take cases for any number of reasons. I think it is unfair that just because what might very well be a reputable firm took this case, means there is a proverbial smoking gun.

I don’t know man. Evidence is probably going to be stipulated to when it’s all said and done. The only evidence really seems to be the goalie’s ‘story’ and PIHL eligibility paperwork/roster submitted by montour. Probably going to be more of a case on rules interpretation, due process, etc. Notice the claim for equitable relief- that’s not monetary damages. Meaning they’re probably just wanted to get reinstated for playoffs. Because of equitable claim and risk of immediate harm, they can likely get a preliminary hearing soon, like next week. I can ask my paralegal to pull this Monday and give it a look, if anyone is interested

I gotta think there has rarely, if ever, been a situation where a foreign student came to US to play hockey specifically for a certain high school. I could certainly see how the risk is higher that a domestic billet student relocated for high school athletic purposes. Maybe put another way, completely incidental that a Russian billet student is playing for Montour for example. But, maybe not so much for someone coming from Ohio, which I think PIHL should look into a bit more. Perhaps not outright rule that the Ohio kid is ineligible for a year, but I’m good with them having a process to look into the situation. And, tying this back to the thread topic, if the team coaches/manager doesn’t disclose that clearly (ie conpleting the roster accurately), with fair play in mind, early on so it can be addressed before the season starts, shame on the adults.

Or, as you just did, cus someone out and challenge them to essentially a fight. Just like a 10 year old that hasn’t yet learned how to control his or her emotions and act like a civilized and respectful adult and member of society… Hopefully you get the ban hammer for this screen name just like you did a day or 2 ago on the other one…

@Flavio, I see that for sure. @Danner27Sounds like montour ADULTS wanted to get them on a technicality but they weren’t technically strong enough themselves to do it. Shame on them. Rather than sort it out like adults, respectfully, up front, with transparency, like fair play decency dictates, they played the game and lost. I don’t know this Clay gentleman but seems like the soldiers may have gotten their wish and run the decent general out of town.