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Penguins Launching Hockey Diversity Program at Hunt Armory (nhl.com)

8 minutes ago, Hockey22 said:

"you can't cross a bridge if you burn it down...and by the way, fire spreads"

Well then for his sake, I guess it's a good thing that Pittsburgh has a f*ck ton of bridges....

@Mess I really did enjoy it and appreciate you taking the time to not only make the film but share your sons story as well. I'd love to see a follow up. I hope your kid is still playing at a high level and checking didn't scare him off, from what I saw on the film he has some great hands. 

I would agree with the experience level being determined by amount of years played is a good start. Maybe if there were more in house type outlets that those less experienced players could start in it would help. That also goes back to what I have complained about on here a few times that PAHL organizations don't really even cut kids anymore. They just field 4-6 bantam teams and let them struggle. Maybe by cutting kids it would force them into the in house non check leagues which would be a better learning environment.

Ideally 14U and up would have at least 3 officials but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Hell, sometimes were lucky that two show up!

A very close family friend has three boys ( 2005, 2007 and 2011) who all play or have played Choice hockey in MN that teaches checking at the squirt level (which in MN is actually 10-11 and not 9-10) and it absolutely makes a difference. The coaches even go as far as trying to keep the larger kids on the ice together if they can. You would be amazed at the skill level and awareness some of these kids have. If you ever want clips or stories from their experience for another film please reach out. I'm sure my buddy would love to be involved.

12 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I paid $5.  I learned three things :

1) people are really frigging whiny and I see how they teach  their kids to be the same way.  

2)I started to think this was a vengeance promo video.  I am no Pens apologist but Brian Mueller is a fantastic coach and it's sad you acted like that pens checking clinic was bad. 

3) roller hockey exists as does an RMU non checking league. Check it out. 

Your point 1 - I felt the same way about the parenting part. It seemed to me that the dad was actually instilling fear into his son about checking instead of just letting him feel it out for himself. It only takes one or two times of getting checked or checking someone to know that its not THAT bad. 

Point 2- Agreed. For what its worth I don't see the kids name on this years Vengeance roster so....idk.

Point 3 - A lot of people would rather their kids quit hockey all together than play in house. Come on, can you imagine the blow to their ego around the water cooler?

It was a well made documentary in my opinion. Some of the reoccurring themes repeated themselves too much and some of that fat could have been trimmed, but overall it was enjoyable to watch. I will say that it had the narrative that checking should be either banned from bantams or moved up to midgets, which I could not disagree with more. It needs to be introduced much earlier. The best part for me personally was when that giant 12 year old was just dummying kids and enjoying every second of it.

5 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

It looks like the AHF might be a good thing for SWPA.  I like the idea of the showcase tournaments they offer.  Although some might say it will just dilute the level of teams. More options in AAA or AA will mean weaker quality of teams!  I could see the Allegheny Badgers, SP Rebellion and Viper Stars opting for some form of AHF league play in 21-22.  At least there might be something else to talk about other than PAHL in SW PA.

Not to completely derail this thread but building of this comment: Looking at how the AHF is structured I think it would be a really smart move for those organizations at Black Bear rinks to join the AHF as a supplemental program.  Looks like they play 2 showcases (8 total games) and 8 AHF regular season games, that you could easily schedule in 2 or 3 weekend trips to NJ/MD/ Eastern PA. It appears the majority of the teams in the AHF also play in their local travel league as well.

So using 12U as the example your looking at (20) PAHL regular season games, 4-5 weekend trips to AHF territory for 16 more games total (showcases and league games). Maybe throw in another local tournament and one to Buffalo or whatever for an additional 8-10 games and you have a nice 44-46 game schedule with some variety in travel and teams played. From my perspective that sounds pretty sweet.

@bb2j3z since you're involved in the Rebellion, what are your thoughts on this idea?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this poster is just trying to stir up some trash talk so I'll bite. I have heard on here that the PHA Icemen have a great AA program, AND you get a bonus A to go along with it!!

28 minutes ago, Saucey said:

We may see that model anyway if Blackbear has its way. All they need is a rink that lets them access players in the north. They sure did their best to pick up RMU.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blackbear league made its way to Pittsburgh. I think it would generate interest in the families looking for something a little different. As long as they are okay with traveling to NJ a lot. 

4 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

The Icemen issues not withstanding, the management group at FP didn't do themselves any favors this season by requiring all Yeti players to purchase all new on ice apparel materials even if the player was not in need. Jerseys, socks, shells and practice jerseys. I know a couple of families and it did not sit well as the pricing structure seemed a bit on the overpriced side according to them. This was especially true when a family hadn't had any costs associated with this stuff in their plans.

Did they change uniform designs?

32 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So strictly U15 Tier 1 AAA teams in SW PA made up of just 06 players are Pens Elite, SHAHA, Vengenance, Preds and maybe Icemen. Am I missing any?

It is my understanding that there is no Tier 2 U15 division. Is that correct?  Why would any organization playing in Tier 2 want to field a team of all 06 players then?  Just trying to understand all this.  Thanks in advance.

 

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

I don't think you meant to ask me, yes?

It was more of a rhetorical question really. Six teams at 14U seems a bit excessive to me personally. 

31 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Wholeheartedly agree. Just don't have the numbers around here. Field your best team and be done with it.

 

Or in this case field your best SIX teams. Was anyone cut from tryouts? 

33 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I have not seen your film yet but will.  I am still a firm believer that waiting until boys start to turn into men to allow checking is a terrible mistake versus teaching and allowing checking fundamentals at least at squirt minor. 

I could not agree more, however nowadays parents of 6-12 year olds seem to forget that while it’s non checking, hockey is still a CONTACT sport. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen mite parents throw an all out tantrum over their kid getting knocked into the boards. If an 85lb kid and a 50lb kid are going hard into the corner for a puck and rub against each other what do they expect is going to happen? I hate this whole mentality of teaching players to not be aggressive. 
Minnesota Made does it right with their Choice Hockey program. They introduce checking at squirts in stages. 

4 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I don't think that team is playing PAHL this year, independent schedule of some sort. Makes sense, they played AA 16u last year. I don't know cost differences.

It says on their website; "The 16U team plans to compete in PAHL U16 AA. We believe that playing in the U16 PAHL would provide a high level of competition without the need to travel extensively."

I am starting to understand a little more as to why some people posting are totally against the faux AAA teams and given the last couple of comments I took a look at SCIR's website to see what the 16U National Bound team offers. To me it looks nearly identical, if not more involved than some of these other "AAA" programs, so my question to the knowledgeable folks here is what is the monetary difference between these teams and the "faux" AAA teams? 

I know AAA teams don't play a lot of tournaments. I was using that scenario to emphasize the wider variety of opponents at the AAA level, but that point can be argued as well as a lot of AAA teams end up playing the same teams multiple times a season. 

I was more trying to say that I get why people turn their back to PAHL after a while. The grass is always greener on the AAA hill, right?

23 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

They all walked away from PAHL to begin with, citing that they were too good for the local competition. 

Did they decide they were too good for local competition or did they want a non parent coach, more games, more practices, and all the cool swag that comes with "AAA"? 

I can totally see why 15 year old kid whos played 9-10 seasons of PAHL and dealt with terribly run practices, flakey teammates, 7am games in state college, coaches who phone it in, playing the same kids you've played for years, etc... would want to try something different. 

Aren't some the best parts of playing tournaments the fact that you get to play out of state teams? I personally hate going to a tournament and playing another PAHL team. Having the opportunity to play teams from OH,NY,MI etc is also a big enticing part of "AAA" for a lot of people.

5 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

This won't get participation from the teams that are true national contenders.  And by the way, they all think they are national contenders. 

Couldn't they still be true national contenders and play a PAHL schedule plus independent games? Don't they already do that?

If PAHL offered a "AAA" division for major birth years starting at 12U it would be well received. Call it PAHL Premier or something. Make it a 30 game schedule and the orgs must have a non parent coach and offer 2 weeknight practice slots. Essentially making AA what it should be. They can still play their tournaments and independent games to get up to the 50-60 game mark that so many parents want and everyone is happy.

Awesome to see! Crazy to think that there is junior hockey in Louisiana. I wonder what their turnout for games is like.

25 minutes ago, Saucey said:

You want more ice time? Do we want that ice time to come at the expense of cutting kids? 

Plain and simple. Yes. I grew up playing PAHL hockey in the late 90's and was cut from second squirt and peewee teams. These big organizations don't cut anyone nowadays. But that's the world we live in now and it wont change. So let them pay their season fees and go 5-9 in the B division as long as they are having fun right? Not sure about your kids, but mine hate to lose and I am totally okay with that. 

@hockeyisgreat you are 100% right about nobody telling you what's going on.  The majority of the PAHL association websites are not very helpful either. Hockey in general isnt a very "easy" sport to get into so they could do a much better job explaining the process in my opinion. 

I know I talk crap about dad coaches a bit here and honestly its because of the experience my kids have had. We have only have one really good dad coach. A guy who motivated the kids to get better and would take the time to fix the problems. He also made it fun. No surprise either, he played  AAA/D3 hockey. I am positive there are a tons of guys just like him out there. I would like to think I would be myself If I was able to coach but after a bad car accident in 2011 that left me nearly paralyzed I am unable to skate anymore, therefore I feel it wouldn't be beneficial for me to coach. 

I am not trying to downplay the importance of volunteer parents. Both my wife and I are involved in our organization and we do everything we can to help out, but strictly from a developmental standpoint the dad coaches need to be better prepared be it by USA Hockey or their organization. I have seen WAY too many wasted ice slots simply because the coaches didn't really have a practice plan so they are just making stuff up as they go. That is disheartening to see for everyone involved. 

I think at the younger 8U/10U levels, the majority of the kids have the potential to be good hockey players and in my opinion the biggest hurdle is the lack of ice time. Nearly every mite program in PAHL has one 50 minute practice a week and then one jamboree on the weekend. I'm sorry, but that is not even close to enough ice time for these kids to develop. Think of it like playing piano. If you only practiced for 50 minutes a week it would take you years to learn anything useful.  I'm not saying these 8-10 year old kids need to be on the ice everyday, but 2-3 weeknight practices with good drills would really be beneficial. 

Then again, there are kids and parents who only want to play hockey once a week and that's fine, but they shouldn't be lumped in with the kids who want to play everyday. It's not fair to either child. That's the reason I am not totally against the separation between the top teams and the other teams. You can watch the practices and games and see who is out there practicing on their own time and who isn't. 9 times out of 10 the kids on the top teams are the ones shooting pucks in their garage everyday. 

There are SO MANY parents who have zero idea what is involved in travel hockey and honestly should probably just play in house but the model we have developed in WPA is PAHL heavy so they stick the inhouse kids in the B or A Minor 3 division and take their money. Why was there ELEVEN 12U B teams in PAHL last season?!?!? That seems insane to me. Talk about throwing your money away. Those parents are still paying 2-3 thousand a year....

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

The best chance to go anywhere in hockey is not to play around here, anyway. It is getting better, but easier to break in if you go to a bigger hockey market. If you don't stick out there, then you can bring the child back.

This is a pretty crappy mentality to have in my opinion. 

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

I think it was better when no one called the mites elite. I would rather see a community based system until midgets. Play at the rink closest to you and then be recruited.

This would be ideal if all the local organizations had coaches who knew what they were doing and not just some kid's dads who never played hockey growing up. Not to mention the lack of ice time because they have 5 squirt teams and 4 peewee etc etc...

I personally would rather drive 45 minutes to my kids practice where the coaches are challenging them and putting them in situations to develop and get a full 50 minute skate in rather than have a program in my backyard where Bill the insurance salesman that played baseball in high school who only got into hockey in 2009 when the Pens won the cup is running practice and the drills are terrible and the kids aren't developing and half the practice is the coaches setting up the drills. But hey, that style may be what some parents and kids want. Will be pretty hard to recruit a kid to a higher level who has had years and years of that type of "development".

@bb2j3z Ironically enough the mite logo is the one I don’t like at all haha. I wish they would have decided to go with the same flag logo for the mites personally.
You did a really nice job with the jerseys and I think it’s exactly what SP needed. I am optimistic that a fresh look and some fresh faces on the board will help this program out.
We live close but don’t play there for the simple fact that the guy I reached out to initially for my oldest son about playing with them was a complete a$$hole and now it seems that every time my boys teams play the rink rats they outwork them and the players and coaches don’t seem to have a clue what was going on. 

5 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

So is it true that in 22-23 the Rebellion will also be fielding Tier 1 teams? That seems to be the prevailing rumor regarding the wishes of the new management.

I hope so! If there's anything that western PA youth hockey needs more of, its faux AAA teams! We need something to talk about on here.