nemesis8679

1 hour ago, Eddie Shore said:

Yeah Nemesis!  Here is a topic we can agree on.

My kid was never a "goal scorer", but did have a fairly successful career as a d-man with a great +/-, perfect tape-to-tape passes and rarely lost a battle on the boards.  Always towards the bottom of the stats list after Peewee's (that when he realized he had a role to play on the team, which was skating it coast-to-coast and shooting).  A lot of times when people came calling on him I was always surprised because of his lack of goals, but every coach pointed out (just like you did), there is more to this game than scoring goals.

Great post, thanks

Yep, it's 100% true. And a good coach will utilize those fundamentally solid guys over the one-trick ponies every day of the week. And they'll also usually get the respect of their team mates fairly effortlessly. A great easy example is Dominik Simon. A winger that doesn't score much, yet there he is getting good minutes on an NHL team. And Sullivan is widely considered a top coach in the league. It's no coincidence. There's a reason for that. Yet, look how many casual fans constantly complain about him. Now scale that down from the NHL to lower leagues, and the general concept still works the same. 

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

I would agree that pihl teams don’t seem to always play their best players for whatever reason (first you have to get them to join the team). Tier 1 kids get frustrated watching a dman think he’s Paul Coffey leading the rush just to turn the puck over at the opponents blue line or line mates playIng 3 on 3 Superman hockey, but I suppose both of these should be put on coaching. Regardless of skill level and skating ability, kids should be taught to move the puck, use your line mates. The best thing I’ve ever heard a coach yell during a game “you can’t skate the fn thing faster than you can pass it”. 

 Definitely a coaching problem. If they want to play like that, then you're minutes get cut. That kind of play doesn't win you games. That might work when you're 10 years old, but not long after. I've seen countless high-skilled players get stopped by average players (and below-average) with good coaching. And it makes those less skilled players better by way of boosting their confidence and seeing that they can be impactful in a game. That's why I constantly reinforce to kids that to me or anybody who is knowledgeable about the sport, that a well-timed block or winning a puck battle is just as important as scoring a goal. And so is a nice pass to the player with the best chance to score, regardless of where that other kid falls on the depth chart. Sooner or later, most of them get it that yeah, it's easy to notice a goal being scored, but that's just one part of the overall game. And unless you're Sidney Crosby, the average high- skilled player is not consistently going to be able to deke and stick handle around 4 opposing players to score on a no-risk-to-the-goalie shot while their team mates are tapping their sticks the whole play. 

Youth sports in general are a wreck. When paid high school coaches started running their own businesses outside of school, it was all over. Want to make the baseball team? You better be paying to attend the coaches summer training camp. Already on the varsity team? You better be volunteering your summer to helping the younger kids at the camp. Want to make the wrestling team? Better be attending the non-school affiliated trading program that the coach owns. Catch my drift? 

I had a kid who played hockey for me a few seasons. Not all year-round, put he'd play when he could. Well when I was putting a team together one season, his dad said he couldn't play because summer travel baseball was starting, with a team most of the school team was playing for. He said the kid would rather play hockey, but if he missed a summer on the travel baseball team- that he'd been on for 6 years- he probably wouldn't make it if he had to tryout again next season. And forget about playing for the varsity team. 

In regards to expense of hockey, and the nonsense parts of it- it would be the same for any sport, but your school taxes pick up most of the tab for those other sports. And a limited amount of community-owned rinks, like they have a lot of in other places up north- instead of a community pool, you have a community rink. That helps keep costs down. Then, with school teams, you have athletic directors who step in if things start getting stupid. Hockey, lacrosse, and other club sports have no real oversight like that. 

28 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Ok, I am curious about this statement, and I am not trying to pick a fight with you (really, I am not), but what risk to kids health is there?  Are you saying that if we open these rinks up, and let kids practice together that some of them are going to catch the virus?  You do know that the last I time checked no one under the age of 42 had contracted it in Allegheny County right?  Please don't tell me that is because of the stay at home orders.  You do know that kids (those under the age of 19 are pretty much going to each others houses all along right?  I just saw a group of like 6 or 7 riding bikes down my street on Sunday and at least 5 playing basketball in the next cul-de-sac.  Sorry, I'm just not buying it.  I can't see any correlation (let allow causation) between states like PA, NY, CA etc... that put all these rules in place versus cases in other states that didn't.  Again, not trying to argue, I guess each person has their own opinion.  Sorry

I don't want to argue, either. I'm somewhere in the middle on all of this. Naturally in this country, this got politicized, so people either have to be on one extreme (leave your house, you die) or the other (this is a hoax, my rights are being infringed, Bill Gates, etc.) However, I know for a fact that while some kids are playing together, most are not. Many have been staying away. As far as people under 42 not getting it, maybe? How would you know if people aren't being tested? And kids that get it seem mostly to be carriers only, with the exception of the ones who have serious complications from it. 

1 minute ago, Danner27 said:

hockey Canada is suppose announce this week they are opening up June 1st, will USA hockey follow the lead this early ? Denver is a very liberal area. It’s rumored USA teams will not be allowed to travel in this season to play along with USA players playing in Canada. The chl put out a letter today claiming there is no truth to these restrictions, it’s just rumors. 

I hope it all opens up June 1st. As long as we're not winding up putting ourselves further behind. 

33 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Because it was only one, now there are a handful, people’s feelings are hurt - being left out. If their superstar kid can’t get on the ice, then nobody should be allowed. 

The thing is, is that nobody IS allowed. What personality defect is it that some people think they're above everyone else, that rules don't apply to them? 

I would tend to think that parents willing to risk their kid's health (or other's) are more likely to be the ones with the self-appointed "my kid is a superstar" attitude than the ones who can take a step back and wait a month or two to see what happens. In fact, knowing some of the ones that are doing it, I'd say I'm 100% right about that. 

3 minutes ago, The King said:

 @nemesis8679Imagine getting bad service at Walmart and having no other options to shop. 

It doesn't seem like that day is too far off, unfortunately. 

4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

1. Agree with you Nemesis.  I think the moderator was more concerned with protecting the ID of the original poster than protecting the anonymity of the violating rink.  But we should be able to talk about controversial tidbits.  Outing a violator is probably in the best interest for public health.  Worst case scenario: positive cases of the virus will spike upward, progress to green status will be halted, season will be further delayed or even canceled.  If that happens, you can blame the rink or blame the dude needing his quick buck off a clinic.  I will blame both.

2. I wouldn't worry much about not being able to practice while other kids are practicing.  Suppose a few kids are getting a few weeks head start.  It will all even out by the start of the season.  If there is a season.  And lets be honest - anyone working on ice hockey specific skills in May is probably on the path to burn out.  Kids should be outside doing lacrosse, baseball, soccer, and track/field.

3. USA Hockey has no jurisdiction over a private business and no jurisdiction over a private transaction (sale of ice to guy running clinic).  OMG I've turned into the King! I'm sure USAH can issue dirty looks though.  

A fourth point of interest, worthy of discussion, is insurance.  USAH liability coverage does not apply in this case.  Maybe rink is protected through another insurance.  Maybe ISI?  Opening the doors with no liability insurance would seem like a big risk.  I would like to hear more comments on that if anyone has knowledge to share.

Good points.

As far as losing out because of not skating for a few months, I agree. But some kids just love the game of hockey. To the point they'd rather be doing that than any other sport or even playing video games. So if it's the kid's choice, I'm all for the one-sport athlete. 

And with the insurance, as I understand it now, it doesn't matter who is "covering" it- if you have a business that's told not to be open and they are anyway, any insurer can refuse payment on any claims. And the way insurance companies are, if they can deny paying, they will. And even if you have personal insurance, if you're injured doing this when the gov. is saying you can't do it, the personal insurance conceivably could be denied, too. So now you're just opened up to lawsuits- against the rink, the organization, the coach, parents, and lord knows who else. And you know there is absolutely a parent out there, who if they or their kid caught covid at a rink, will sue and say they caught it because the rink opened when they shouldn't have, but they weren't aware of the risk because the rink and the coaches told them that with the protocols it would be okay. And there's a million attorneys that would make that argument. They're going to disinfect the rinks after each group of kids? If you've seen any of them (besides Shadyside Academy) and believe that, well I don't know what to tell you. A mediocre lawyer would have a field day with just that alone. Not to mention the social distancing part... I guess unless you're using Chara's stick, you can't take a puck from someone at the recommended 6 ft. Seems like a lot of risk, and a mess waiting to happen. 

26 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

How do you propose to enforce this. I don't think USA Hockey is going to send someone to a rink to take names.  I am actually quite shocked by the people who are whining about a rink renting their ice out. How will you feel if rinks have to close because they have had no income for 4 or 5 months. How would it affect youth hockey  if the number of rinks in western pa is cut in half when it gets to green.  And for arguments sake tell me what it is going to take to get to green. How can you work toward something with no guidelines. People are tired of government just making things up,  No one is being forced to skate.   Maybe just maybe there are people skating for the love of the game.  I would like to think that most people are well aware of the risks involved with being in public.  We are in this for the long haul. No quick fix. Time to get on with life! And yes that most likely means the inflated numbers are going to go up, people are going to get sick. Most will recover some will not. I live in a country that up until now gave me the choice to live my life free from oppression. I'd like to get back to that. Enough of my rantings.
Time

Yeah, dude. I'd like to get back to that, too. But no one is being "oppressed". How would I feel if some rinks went out of business over this? Bad. No question. But I won't feel any better if this shit gets prolonged enough to wreck getting back to life, and hockey, even longer. And when we get right back to where we started- not because a handful of rinks are open, but because people aren't willing to sacrifice a bit of personal gain- they'll go out of business then, instead. Look, these small businesses should get assistance from state and federal government- isn't that one of the reasons we have governments? If you're country is unwilling or unable to help in these situations then something is majorly wrong with your government. But at the same time, go tell someone who grew up during the great depression or WW2 that it was just "too difficult" to go a few months with no hockey, or getting a haircut. They'd laugh at you. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the sooner we all do what we should be doing, the sooner this could all be a non-issue. 

My remarks pertaining to this situation, and I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this:

1) It's not right to censor someone saying a rink is open on this forum, when the rink is obviously relatively known to be open. If they are not supposed to be open, then that is their problem if people talk about it. 

2) Besides the obvious health concerns (and would waiting another month or two (or three) help prevent this virus from spreading again and possibly ruin part or all of next season?), my big problem with this is that the ones being hurt here are the kids that are following the rules or have parents that are following the rules. They are really being put at a disadvantage here. You are rewarding those who are not thinking of anyone but themselves (of course if they get sick or die- or spread it to at-risk family members- I guess that's not much of a reward). Actually, I have a huge problem with that. You can't keep your skills up with skating the way you could stay fresh with other sports- which, by the way, still aren't running organized practices. 

And by the same token, rinks that are going against rules shouldn't be being financially rewarded when other privately owned rinks are biting the bullet and complying as asked. 

3) are they, in fact, in compliance now that reopening has started? Does the non-contact/no games aspect of this allow them to operate (we'll leave aside the fact that it is virtually impossible to have hockey practice and still follow mask guidelines/social distancing? If not, does USA Hockey have any ability to not sanction arenas or teams, or fmgive them a general hard time, through certain means? 

This point of this post is not me saying shutdowns are right or wrong. Personally, I'm in the middle of both extremes. And ultimately believe what educated health officials say over politicians or CEO's. But aside from that, I'm just talking purely from the perspective that if you're being asked/told not to do something, then you shouldn't be doing it. So I'm not looking to debate the constitution, insult political parties, or call anyone a fraud. I just want a conversation pertaining to the hockey aspect of this. 

On 5/15/2020 at 10:26 PM, hockey07 said:

Columbus is on the list for places to watch for a hotspot. Alpha has opened up for practices this weekend if anyone was driving by the rink tonight would notice 

I wonder for what teams? I haven't heard anything about renegades having their tryouts or anything, and nothing from school teams, either. 

39 minutes ago, Loach said:

Non-contact youth sports open in Ohio May 26. The governor mentioned this includes sports like tennis, golf, baseball.  He specifically said that there is no set date yet for contact sports including hockey, lacrosse, soccer.

What about if instead of 'hockey', rinks start doing skating skills sessions and the like and call it non-contact?  I don't know, I'll have to look at the fine print. But, he specifically mentioned hockey as not being included in those sports opening May 26 in his presser today.

I assume that's exactly what's going to go on. There are no tryouts or games, but nothing about specifically nit having skating lessons, drills, or whatever with instructors. Or even having sticktimes- limited capacity, of course. But again, I wonder what the insurance situation is. Not to mention- if there is any aid available from the state for these businesses now or in the future, these business almost certainly wouldn't be eligible to receive it. Now, do the owners have the forethought to consider this? I have no idea. 

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

Their own, just like renting ice for a private birthday party. 

Yeah, but the insurance company can deny paying out, since they aren't supposed to be open right now. 

How on earth did they think word wouldn't get out? 

So what was the deal with PIA being open? 

4 hours ago, hockey07 said:

pia had lessons today 

Is that open to all the instructors now? Or just certain ones/or one? If that's the case, I can't see all the other instructors that have lost presumably  thousands of dollars being real thrilled. 

I come here to get away from delusional Trump-humpers. Yeesh. 

6 hours ago, ctil20 said:

Thinking outside the box, and maybe without logic but taking the game outside may be the only answer to having a season. Should this come back later on this year. 
 

Most rinks have a flat large lot. Buy or rent the tubing and hook it up to the chillers. Use the boards they have from inside. Weather dependent? Yes. Pain? Yes. It’s better than no revenue though. We have mild winters around here anymore, it’s not like kids will suffer practicing outside a few nights a week. 

 

No way. 

Steedle was great. Big mistake. Wonder what the problem was? 

Yeah that was a good article. Also the one one Michel Briere. 

Not soon enough

Vanbiesbrouck has no place in hockey, let alone hockey involving minors. 

9 hours ago, The King said:

Can someone explain to me (without citing the rule in the rule book) how the MidAm district has any authority over any small, non-profit business, to dictate when or how said business conducts its business? As long as it doesn’t violate criminal laws (which they purportedly have supported and protected people doing for a very long time) what legal right do they have to tell anyone who the business can be done? I can see where they would make a gentleman’s agreement with the member clubs to wait until after a certain date to hold tryouts, but to mandate anything seems to be a violation of certain business laws. 

Not sure about midam, but with USA Hockey, USA LaCrosse, any of those types of governing bodies... it could have something to do with the organizations buying insurance through them, and the coverage/liabilities involved. Just a guess. 

All the rinks are closed for now. 

I think this NC/Excel "partnership" will open it up for the other AAA teams, whose schedules are more convenient, cost less, etc. to pick up better players. Give PPE a run for their money. 

If people can just get past the name and logo.