Danner27

So I’ve seen both sides of PPE. When my 99 was playing, mr Morehouse didn’t commandeer the program yet. 66 did for his kid, he got cut from the hornets.  The hornets kids that came over along with the new PPE kids - there was still good development, like any top program there was some politics but they were bearable. When my 99 was second year 16U, I believe is when Morehouse started taking control. At this point the entire purpose of the program was to fund the pro teams practice rink while developing Morehouse’s kid. As my 02 went through the system we watched quality players from the 02 & 03 birth year get screwed over. We watched a few kids -  15 year old 03’s get moved to 16U (voit who was the best of that 03 group from western pa in the program at this time ironically wasn’t good enough to be moved up) while the 02’s did the heavy lifting for that national championship. I guess I can say names at this point, these age groups are all 18 plus. Probably best I don’t - back on track - the top 02’s whom carried that team have all moved onto the ushl, ohl etc. they are all having success. the high end out of state 03’s all moved into real junior hockey after 16u. Bringing back memories here, forgot how much of a mess was started for that one kid who was drafted by every damn junior league, skated with Crosby all the time (Crosby even cut his sticks!) and still looked no different than any PAHL AA player even though he was playing with arguably some of the best 03’s from across North America. funny he stayed all the way through 18U never made a real junior team until this year, he is in the bchl - the Canadian version of nahl.   I don’t even want to continue on here with this, but the short - we were witness of the transformation to what the program has now become. 
 

but I’ll still stick with this statement, because it’s true - if your kid has the talent and you think he has a shot at real junior hockey the player needs to be at PPE, if not toss a Hail Mary to esmark at the midget ages or move the player out of state. It’s unfortunate but it’s the facts. Prime example is the 03 we have been referencing in this thread earlier.

23 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

well according to this board pens doesn’t create good opportunities anyway and kids who leave are better off elsewhere- so this kid oughta be just fine …

an 03 so probably played juniors last year - any eyes from ushl or ohl have now seen him so pretty hard to blame pens for anything at this point? but u guys will find a way?

Never got noticed until he went to esmark at 18U. When the pens dumped him he played up a birth  year for two years at one of of the awful western pa faux aaa clubs. stuck around with them for a few years due to friends along with a special price.   
 

Yuri was after him all those wasted years, finally at 17 years old the kid realized he had to get off the faux team, leave his buddies behind. Played one year at esmark (his minor 18U year) made the naphl all star team, lead esmark in scoring. He was by far the best player on the team. After his first season with esmark he was tendered, drafted etc and out of western pa. This past season - his major 18U year, Esmark still rostered him but he never played for them. If he would have played either season on PPE 18U teams he would have been the best player there too! 

3 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

well i do agree that unfortunately the kids with family money/clout get better opps. not sure what happened with this kid on the nahl team he did end up making? if he keeps at it this year and next no doubt he will go higher. 

The NAHL is getting pretty political due to advisors. That NAHL for whatever reason is somewhat controlled by advisors the last few years, more than any other real junior league. 

1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Dead on. Hopefully he can overcome the obstacles. From what I know about him, he has the drive to go with his talent. I think he should be in the USHL. Better than a number of kids who have had that opportunity. 

the current junior leauge he’s in - he’s averaging a point per game on one of the worse teams in the league, I’m pretty sure that puts him as one of the top players and he’s only 18 years old. He has to make it out of that league this year as a 19 year old and back to the nahl to have a chance. He’s pretty much passed the ushl age. Unfortunately the nahl has a lot of politics these days, especially Johnstown. FFS the player we are speaking of didn’t make Johnstown but a mediocre slow player who joined pitt’s acha team mid season(one of the dads I referenced in that thread)  made Johnstown. Scratch your head at that one!  But half way through the season dad’s money and political pull couldn’t keep the kid there, he was cut and joined pitt. 

1 hour ago, hockey2020 said:

well according to this board pens doesn’t create good opportunities anyway and kids who leave are better off elsewhere- so this kid oughta be just fine …

an 03 so probably played juniors last year - any eyes from ushl or ohl have now seen him so pretty hard to blame pens for anything at this point? but u guys will find a way?

The ushl is a younger league. Those kids are out of there - in d1 before 20.  Top players that start are 17-18. 

if this kid came from money, parents had the connections I have no doubt he would have been in the ushl at a young age. He would have been drafted at some point last year in the nhl. He is a better player currently than voit plus has more speed & size (I’m a big marc & Ty voit fan so that’s saying a lot) ty is better in his own zone. 
 

Morehouse used this kid to carry the ppe 03 BY until he could start drawing on the some of the best prospects in NA to put around his own kid. Once he got his plan in place, players to come in and excel money flowing they dumped the kid. 
 

I’ll ad,  this kid we are talking about is very grounded. Never flaunted how good he was. He would play with anyone regardless of skill level. he would play on tournament teams in the summer regardless if it was a major, aa or aaa. If the team wasn’t very skilled he would score just enough for them to win and then spend the rest of his ice time setting kids up.

8 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I disagree. I know the best 03 in the area got cut from the top team as Bantam. He moved on because of this. He is now playing on a high level junior team. There is no way he shouldn’t have made that top team. He was and is the BEST 03 from the area. And I believe there are other kids that should have made teams but didn’t. Politics are involved at all levels of every sport, and this kid is a prime example that the elite program definitely is influenced by politics. I also disagree that there are not enough good players locally to make a full roster for the elite. But because of the school requirement, kids opt to go elsewhere. Which can be seen by the number of kids who have left to go to other programs around the country and have advanced to higher level juniors. And one last thing, I know of a number of Pens players that have been tendered by junior teams and never made those teams. 

They cut him because his family isn’t well off, such BS but they were about to start the excel stuff. 
 

had this kid been giving the opportunities others had, I have no doubt he would have ended up in the ushl or possibly the ohl. 

16 minutes ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

by looking at the u18 roster there are some shockers for sure making the team..... one of which is deff bc of who daddy is.

Nepotism at its finest!  

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

A big difference between Club hockey and beer league is checking. I have known a lot of guys that have never taken a hit, and if they were in a situation where they could get hit, their skills would disappear. It happens when kids move on to checking age. And  in Beer leagues there are many players that skate with their heads down and appear to be pretty good. But would never be good in a checking game because they would get pummeled. 
 

That is why I asked Danner what level of hockey he has played. I wanted to know if knew the difference between checking hockey at the club level, and non checking hockey in the beer league. Because if you have never been hit, you have no idea what the difference is. 

Im not talking about beginner beer league or over 40  - have you watched the top division at ice castle ? A lot of guys that made it to pro leagues outside of the nhl, minors, small ncaa etc. maybe this division is no longer around, this was pre covid. Some nhl guys would join in the games from time to time. There was a viral video from one of these games - a guy put another guy through the glass. I’m sure it can still be found on social media somewhere. 

14 hours ago, Law said:

I think you have alot of knowledge to pass on but you are so negative about it. Everyone has to learn for themselves. One other thing; I can guarantee you that there isn't and hasn't been any parental interference at Pitt. It's college for crying out loud, kids would be pissed and embarrassed if their parents interfered. And they would be gone! That is 100% wrong. Take that as the gospel. Danner, parents are looking for guidance; people like us can help them w/o squashing their hopes. 

Sometimes I wish I didn’t have the knowledge, it makes me enjoy the sport less these days. I watch my niece now, they are talking about trying out for PPE.  PPE has been in contact. I ask my brother in law - remember what both my boys went through, all the money, my oldest not having much of a childhood ? It’s like He forgot, or more like he doesn’t want to remember. On the bright side, maybe the woman’s side of hockey is not as hardcore but I’m sure the politics are there. The money definitely is.  The landscape has changed for the worse since my boys have been done. The advisor stuff didn’t start to blow up until my youngest last year or two. 

if I communicate what I found about the pitt program wrong, I’m sorry. Forgive my weakness with expressing my thoughts as I age. Maybe the words backers or enablers - better yet boosters for a club sport. Regardless of the term, it’s there. 

39 minutes ago, Law said:

"Good but not good enough" so freaking what? Jeez, didn't u get hugged enough as a kid. You might be the most negative person I've ever come across. And you're right, I am a parent; of a 41 yr old. I am pretty sure I know who you are and part of the reason I started this post is because last spring when I posted about Pitt going to Nationals your comments were " they play in a weak conference, can't compete with the big boys, etc. So I knew when I posted about this u would have something negative to say and u never disappoint. People, do what u think is best for your kids, please don't listen to the negative stuff on here. Make your own decisions, spend YOUR $ how u want. Enjoy traveling with your kids and enjoy watching them play. Keep in mind that there are more neurosurgeons in the US then proffesional hockey players. And if your son plays ACHA in college hope that he plays at a local college so u can watch him/her play the game they love no matter if it's M1,2 or 3. Geez Danner, don't poison these people with your negative , know everything BS. BTW, why don't you tell us how your son's career ended. Lighten up bud!

What’s bizarre - half of what you said in the end is what I’ve been preaching on here for a long time. 

34 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

 

ACHA hockey is beer league? I wonder if you have ever played hockey at any level when you make statements like that? I played club hockey 30 years ago and we would have killed any beer league team around. And the same goes for today’s club hockey teams. You seem to think any hockey not at the top level is junk. Why is that?  You bash “faux” AAA teams that have talented kids playing on them. Sure they may not be the best of the best but they are good. And the same goes for club hockey, they may not be the best of the best but there are a lot of talented kids playing on those teams. 
 

And you continue to make the statements about Tier 3 juniors being a joke. Why is that? I understand that those leagues are not producing a bunch of NCAA players, but some do make it. And who are you to judge others decisions to continue their hockey career? I know of a few kids that play tier 3 that have no aspirations of playing college hockey, but they love the game and want to continue to play competitive hockey. Also, playing tier 3 is an experience. Kids get to travel around on a team bus, make new friends, meet new people and see new places. It is a life experience that they may never have the opportunity to do again. Why do you have a problem with that? Do you also have a problem with recent high school graduates spending money to travel around the world before they start their lives? 
 

I really would like to know what your experience is playing? And also why you are so judgmental of kids doing something they want to. Are you mad because you didn’t have the same opportunities? I just don’t get it. 

Have you ever watched the top beer league at ice castle ? Club hockey is CLUB hockey - Younger beer league.

tier 3 junior hockey - 20u varsity hockey. Half the kids come front varsity hockey or AA at best. That’s not real junior hockey. 
 

Not denying some “faux” aaa teams have a few good players - your owns words above are like mine - good but not good enough. 

2 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

the bottom forward and d and scratch mostly end up ACHA m1. 

More than that If you look around these days. 

9 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

 

The reality of players from the NAHL playing ACHA M1 Hockey has come and gone. Be ready for a return of Slippery Rock in two years to the CHMA. 

 

I don’t understand this statement - a lot of nahl kids end up in the acha. I’ll point to a player at pitt that joined mid season after being tendered various times, being cut in the ncdc then sitting in Johnstown half the year. 
 

unfortunately Jeff, there is parent involvement with Pitt. Yes, as I stated the program was looking to go this direction, like anything else it needed enablers & backers. It now has them. You know one of these parents well to boot! 
 

we all get it when parents get involved at the youth level, but at the college club level now ? 
 

To top it off - if you follow state politics, there is a possibility Pitt will lose their state funding as a university. This will drive up instate tuition roughly 10k a year, per kid. Wonder if these parents driving things even realize this ? It wouldn’t effect out of state kids but it’s a few local parents trying to drive the bus with this situation. If the club team was $1500-$2000 like most, that number will push to $4000+ with the current economic landscape, travel pitt is trying to plan. Who really wants to pay that kind of money to play beer league hockey ? I’ll tell you who - the same parent type that try to drive every birth year at a club like esmark where the kids are good but not good enough. The same parent type letting their kids waste time with pay2play tier 3 junior hockey once they are out of HS. 

3 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

very true. but 1/maybe 10 remark tenders ever work out. and the freshman daddy heard he spear headed this 

 

Unfortunately I too was told this dad has a lot to do with what’s going on at Pitt. it wasn’t his idea, the club has had their eyes on trying to recruit more out of state players but the talks started this season when a player who didn’t make it in the nahl  joined the pitt club team mid season.  Helped enable the situation. Now the freshman parent that dumped so much money down Yuri’s throat only for his kid to finally sit the bench at 18U.  here you go - parents putting influence on a freaking club hockey team. there are two 03 esmark kids, if they don’t make the nahl this season (they won’t) talking about joining pitt for the second semester. Let’s get the band back together, travel the north east like it’s still the esmark days, grab me a beer! 

1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

What I don’t get is the hatred for Esmark. Yes kids that get tendered don’t always make the team. But there are kids that do, and therefore they are more successful than a lot of other teams around the country that don’t advance kids. There are a few Esmark kids playing D1 right now. And a couple more that are on the cusp. Not every AAA team is going to send all their players to D1. 

I don’t dislike esmark, I’ve always said here if you are not playing for ppe esmark is really the only other real tier 2 option for midget in western pa.

what I dislike about esmark - every birth year their is a small group of parents that pony up extra cash, suck up and do manage to get some input with the team. 
 

this pitt situation happens to be backed - pushed by two of those previous esmark parents. 

1 hour ago, HSFBLJ said:

Danner, why are you so salty about this?  Are you paying for the bus?

I’m making a point - college is expensive as it is. Education should be the priority. The cost of the club team will definitely rise tremendously from this move. It’s a club sport, not an ncaa sport. 
 

I texted a few folks, as I suspected there are parents behind this.  The list is long, a few esmark flunkies who’s tenders never worked out, usphl vengeance junior rejects along with an incoming freshman family who’s father was always tossing money at yuri. @Law is obviously one of these parents. 

4 minutes ago, Law said:

With Pitt joining the ESCHL there will be 5 teams that were ranked in the top 25 at the end of last season and Drexel had a down year. In the CHMA there was one: Pitt. Also, the CHMA is the only conference in D1 that sends its playoff winner to Nationals. Pitt was 26-1-1 in the regular season the last 2 years they played.

LMAO - this really smells like parent involvement - to good to play local teams.

At this stage it’s nothing more than beer league but hey - let’s travel around the east coast to play. Rmu was a top 25 team ? 
 

What is pitt’s club team current season fees ? How high will it skyrocket to now ? The price of a charter bus has doubled since last season. 

Doesn’t sound like a good move for pitt - they don’t have the program to compete against the top teams. While they have a nice team,  It’s just the reality. They didn’t even win the chma this year. I’m sure the schedule will help their ranking but that could also backfire. 
 

http://eschlhockey.com

this league ? It doesn’t seem that much different than the chma. Two top 20 ranked teams who are normally good Stoney & Niagara, Am I looking at the wrong league ? That travel will undoubtedly raise the cost significantly to play on that team.  CSCHL is one of the best & much closer if they wanted to try to move. 

this screams - parents getting involved - can’t play local kids they have played against during youth hockey. 

Does BM still get the esmark euro’s ? 

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

This link has a video of what happened.  Dude is a beer league goalie and what is he doing so far away from his goal to hit the ref in the first place?

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/video/hockey-referee-speaks-assault-player-222207130.html

It’s crazy. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/local-referee-speaks-out-after-alleged-assault-from-hockey-player/ar-AAYW4HW?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=adae594384664979b01d55895c356dba&fbclid=IwAR1MG94Tk9KCcG2-F3W-WZj6L8P6Px4iZBuKqlh2TFRCOnBqlm-dPdB752Q&fs=e&s=cl

6 hours ago, whatever said:

I’ve heard a handful of former players will be coming back. The kids currently on campus will begin training together this year . I’m guessing the transfer portal will provide some players next year as well.  

For those commenting on trusting the program? The man responsible for eliminating it is gone - which to me speaks volumes and the community  rose up and supported the program like never before financially.  Many of the same people coaching and recruiting are still there or returning. It was an excellent program both in the men’s and women’s side.  

Locally we realize this - not so much on a national level, Canada & Europe. 

3 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

how can anyone ever trust this program again,espically after that rug pull... looks like recruiting is sub par nahl and ncdc kids. not very many USHL kids will trust to come to RMU. 

 

I agree with your recruiting assessment - so far the American kids are sub par nahl players or ncdc. I think the program will have a black eye for the foreseeable future until they can show its stable. 

1 hour ago, hockey2020 said:

many PPE are already tendered and thus not eligible to be drafted. 

Correct, the higher end ppe kids shot for the ushl.  Esmark kids don’t get tendered to the nahl usually until U18, but we know how 95% of those work out. 

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

Not much love for western PA hockey in the NAHL draft today.

https://nahldraft.rinknet.com/

 

Despise their site - just names, not teams or area’s listed ? Any western pa kids ?