Danner27

The predator’s always had extra fee’s for Gary’s gym. they were at one time the “cheapest” “AAA” - advertised in the $2000 range. I could be mistaken, but I believe it was advertised just like that on their website. I remember a dad telling us by the time he paid coaches fees. Slush fund, yellow helmet-gloves-bag-jerseys, some crappy league fee (njphl or something ?), mandatory gym fee etc the cost was higher than what we had ever paid @ esmark. (PPE had the highest fees in our day) This parent compared it to buying a new car “I thought it would cost this but by the time we drove it off the lot it was much more with all the up selling and it lost its value!” I will say the season fees at PPE were justified even though it was highest we ever paid. Excellent coaching & real trainers. My son was on the ice 3 days a week, off ice 2-3 days a week. He practically lived at the rink. Excel didn’t exist yet. In comparison Esmark had a joke of an off ice program with 2 days a week practice. on the flip side, esmark’s travel was higher than anything we ever did at ppe, I’m sure much higher than the predators. Sorry to highjack this thread with fee’s but the current discussion of birth year teams just reminded me how few tier 1 teams there were 8-10 years ago in the states. Along with how good AA hockey was back then. I don’t think growth is the reason for the current landscape (not just in western pa) it’s people finding more ways to make money, younger parents with high hopes, truly uneducated parents falling for the sales pitch along with status parents. I also believe PPE helped destroy tier 2 locally with their bull$hit black teams. I remember watching the first year these black teams came out, it was a squirt major or peewee minor team I think (possibly 2004 BY I am trying to do the math real quick in my head as I type) I was dumbfounded how bad the players were, how bad they skated. I believe the coach was a dad with two kids on the team. It’s hard to remember, I could be wrong on the BY, I’ve seen to much youth hockey & it’s starting to run together anymore. Anyway, It went against everything PPE was trying to be. Looking back now it’s obvious why those black teams were created - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ taken from the type of parents I was speaking about above, to subsidize the pro practice rink. The same kind of parents today that will gladly pay the money for that extra A at predators, Icemen, Vengance & whomever else is calling themselves AAA these days. I am really showing my age, it’s probably time for me to depart this place. I’m thankful the majority of my kids playing days it wasn’t like it is today. If I could turn back the clocks, have the knowledge I have now, I would have tried to enjoy it more. Not worry about how well they play, how competitive they are etc. before you realize it, it’s all over. Sorry for ramblin’ on. Good luck to the younger parents, there are predators after your cash everywhere these days in the hockey world!

Unless something has changed over the last few years, when my boys played PPE & Esmark did not charge (show) a coaching fee. It was all one lump sum. Ice slots, games, league fees, off ice, trainers, coaches etc. both of these organizations have staff on a seasonal salary for their work. Sure, you are paying for their salary in your seasonal fees but it was never shown nor talked about what any of the coaching staff made.

I thought it may have been discussed on here before, even though I know the inner workings I’m not sure it’s my place to put it all out there. The short that I feel everyone around knows (with out the 2 years of major details) he questioned the excel / nc thing publicly - Morehouse threatened to kick his kids out of the program - PPE didn’t like that he was doing “free” skills across the street to help kids - he voiced his opinion on lesser players (2003) getting showcased (it’s pretty obvious now he was correct) - Morehouse banned him from the rink so he went to the away games 😂There is a lot, in the end, he came out on top - not just his own son but others he believed in. especially an 02 PPE kicked out that is on a path to play for PSU. I could list 10 players from 02-03 birth year that he was directly involved with that are all playing real junior hockey in the ushl, ohl etc. all these kids are on a track to major ncaa d1 programs or pro. PPE used some of these kids to get a national championship for a certain group of 2003’s playing up at U16 and tossed the others because the families wouldn’t pay (or couldn’t afford) the ransom. I’m sure In another 2-3 years these kids will be on the upmc rinks wall but PPE had nothing to do with their success. Someone else did, Marc.

Yes I did not want to name names on a public forum. he’s a talented skills coach that knows the path’s beyond youth hockey. He battled PPE and won in the end. I have a lot of respect for that guy. I’ve had few fun conversations with him back in the PPE days, he always stuck around to watch the older kids. He was always willing to help out any kid that needed it regardless of their age. He ran a lot of skills sessions out of warrendale on his own dime. He was the first parent to publicly question PPE while everyone else kept their mouth shut due to fear of getting cut or pushed out. We are pulling for his son! If anyone can give the vengeance credibility & possibly turn that program around, it’s him!

One of my boys just pointed out to me “dad you know the parent he’s talking about” I do ? after a small conversion I do! I guess he’s not calling games anymore ? Looks like things haven’t changed much, this is his second run with vengeance. My son just told me in the past three years one of his kids went vengeance-Lebo-predators now back to the vengeance.

I remember a few years ago, the vengeance tried a U18 AAA team. They literally finished just a few spots above dead last in the rankings. Losing games consistently by double digits. I was under the impression that a very good skills guy is coaching one of the real young teams now, maybe he can turn the place around.

12 year old “powerhouse teams” ? 🙄 teams ranked below 50 in tier 1 are basically very good AA teams. When you get into that 75 and further range, they turn into mediocre AA teams that the majority of top 30 AA teams will beat. I just noticed (U18) team Ohio tier 2 AA beat the vengeance tier 1 “AAA” team. It’s all about the extra “A” for parents, it’s not so much the kids.

Maybe what happened with RMU broke their spirit ? Those guys called games along with covering both programs on the road.

I can’t tell you how many times over the years I’ve seen big / tall kids have a nice clean hit but get called for roughing, boarding etc (Pahl, varsity & tier 1). All the while smaller kids get away with flying elbows. I don’t think this is any sort of league or level of play issue, it’s the refs & usa hockey. my niece is playing Pahl, her father just explained the fpp system to me, that wasn’t around when my kids were in Pahl. I understand what they are trying to do with it but execution is awful. I was also informed that if a player gets four minor penalties in a game they get suspended a game. This rule is even worse than the fpp point IMO. What does this serve ? We are talking about minor penalties - tripping, hooking etc there already is an advantage given for these non violent and non contact penalties called the POWER PLAY.

It really depends on the other teams that won their districts, that’s how they calculate the at large bids. If things haven’t change and my memory is correct, there are 4 at large bids. One would goto the host team. The other 3 to the top ranked teams (in order) that didn’t make it. Let’s say the barons team you are speaking of was ranked number 16. For arguments sake, teams ranked 3,9,12, 14,16 & 21 did not win their district. Again for arguments sake let’s say Columbus is hosting nationals and they are ranked 45th. The at large bids would goto 3,9,12 & 45. unless something has change over the past few years, that’s how it’s determined.

PPE 18’s lost to Columbus in districts last year. PPE still got the at large bid. The 4 at large bids are based on hockey rankings. Esmark got into Narionals last season due to their ranking, along with a few districts not sending anyone. There was more than usual at large spots this past season due to covid.

Wow! Thank the lord my kids are done!

Have to root for this kid, his father went against the evil empire (PPE-Morehouse) called them out on things we all discuss here. Will he make the big show ? Likely not but he’s closer than most and way ahead of a few kids from that same birth year that got all the PPE marketing & special treatment.

Last season. U16 AA if I recall correctly. my kids had friends from U18 waiting lto play after. It’s was during the tier 2 district tournament at delmont. My boys got sent some snap chat videos of the parents fighting. There was a predator mom who got tossed yelling at armstrong kids leaving the ice during the ice cut. She was completely out of control and had a crew with her fighting with everyone. I believe they attacked a one legged armstrong parent or something. Maybe handicapped, can’t recall. On the ice the kids were out of control getting beat, high five’n each other for running armstrong players. yes one kid did punch a ref. U18 AA having a line fight against someone last season. I think the huskies ? U16 “AAA” 2 years ago - the goalies dad came here and posted under his real name to clear the air about the stuff going on with that team. The owner coached the team that season, kids quit because he wouldn’t kick a kid off the team who bought weed in Canada along with another player and parents. A few trouble maker players, team imploded. Goalie quit and a few other kids if I recall correctly. I am not fan, but not so much due to the above reasons even though they add to my feeling on this club. They could have a good program and possibly make the faux AAA more competitive if they would get the main coach out of there. He’s in it solely for the money. Puts kids on “AAA” teams that can’t make pahl AA teams elsewhere because these kids take lessons form this coach, a coach that coaches multiple birth year faux AAA teams over there. Currently that place is a money making shit show. The “AAA” is a complete joke. It’s laughable how bad it is. Out of district play off contention every year in the first month of the season.

It’s been a few years, last time I saw there was only 1,600 ncaa d1 hockey players. Only 60% of these players were on full scholarships. My kids personally know a player at rmu who is not getting any athletic money. (Before all the fallout)