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17 minutes ago, Overqualified said:

You are not a transfer as a in coming freshman c

And there is your technicality - hockey is a club sport - it’s not run by the PIAA. 
 

that is called knowing the goalie would not be allowed but what loophole can we find. 

Montour had a membership meeting last night - they are flooding this board on purpose hoping to bury the relevant posts. 

44 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

Sets a great precedence.  Cheat, lawyer up, brush it under the rug, repeat.  

It’s pretty clear those involved with montour hockey knew if they claimed the player as a transfer (as they should have) he would have to sit a year. Montour tried to skirt the rules on a technicality knowing they had a attorney in their back pocket with a plan - litigation and tie everything up in court. PIHL doesn’t want that, it effects all the other teams. USA hockey wants the season over before April ? 

1 minute ago, Icebucket said:

I keep circling back to this and it makes me think nothing will happen. Once the lawyers get involved everything will get dragged out and PIHL will probably be forced to let things stay the way they are.

Correct, This is my feeling too. 

9 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

The goalie billet with person in charge of Montour Hockey ?

If this is true what is the relationship there how did he recruit this goalie from Ohio is it a relationship?

Why would you play for Esmark U 14 team.

Kids flock there at U15 and up not at Bantam.

Excuse me if Im missing something thats how I am reading this.

 

The goalie billets with montour player who already plays for esmark, I believe this is the montour team manager family. Both kids play U15 at esmark. 

2 hours ago, stickboy said:

When a roster is submitted at the beginning of the year there is a series of check boxes next to each players name where the registrar has to indicate if the player is a transfer, foreign exchange, or cyber/homeschool. This is how the league knows it’s a special case they have to review. I suspect that the M board did not check anything next to this player under the plan to play dumb. If any of their board members ever read the rules this would have raised a red flag. Some on their board probably new this day was coming long before most think they did. 
 

They played the game a lost. Deal with it. The scary thing is they played the game with other peoples’ money!  They may need that attorney after all. 

Montours main argument - the goalie was not a transfer player. So it sounds like the box for transfer student was never checked. The montour coach’s  reasoning behind this -  due to the age of the player along with it being summer when he “moved” to thier district, the player is not a transfer. 
 

very weak argument that was tossed together at the last minute after reading the pihl rules imo. 

1 hour ago, Yalldumb said:

Then If that’s the situation then why was the same exact roster approved at the beginning of the season, but all of a sudden before playoffs it is not good?

Hi kid - they do roster checks before the playoffs. Same thing happens for mid-am’s by usa hockey for the district tournaments, this is when most violations are found. 
 

The montour board & coach are not being very open with their memebers imo. PIHL informed the board over a week ago there was a problem, This issue did not just recently surface. The board choose not to disclose this to its members until the morning of. The argument from the board & coach regarding the transfer player is very weak imo. It’s definitely a midnight scramble. 
 

Don’t worry, my prediction (this is not fact, just how I see it from being around so long) - If PIHL holds firm on their current decision of DQ, pihl is not going to want to deal with the threatened litigation from the montour parent attorney. This would hold the playoffs up, attorney fees, ice time already booked, etc.  (it appears to pay to live in a wealthy district - you get a few attorney’s who’s kids play) 
 

2 hours ago, LGP13 said:

I think from a logical standpoint you have to agree with what Montour is arguing in this situation. This kid is here on a visa from another country (correct?) and for the most part all he knows is his club team he plays for. If the billet he lives with, lives in the school district and that is the school he goes to_ this could be his only real outlet to connect with kids that he goes to school with. Imagine moving across the world to play hockey as a young kid, billeting with people you barely know, going to school with kids you don't know and have to adapt to their culture. Probably doesn't speak the language well. His team and hockey are the only thing he can use to connect with the kids around his age and school. The only thing that the kid is thinking is that he wants to play hockey for the school he goes to so he can use it to create bonds and friendships with the other kids. You are all right no one comes here to play PIHL hockey, but if a kid that has nothing in a foreign land can use it as a tool to connect and bond with the people he is living with_ I'd say that's waaayy bigger and more important than the actual game itself.

 

Now with that said, I think we all have to understand that there are people that don't really have empathy for anyone else and their motives are all about what can benefit them. To think that someone won't use loopholes or break the rules to benefit themselves is foolish. That's why there are rules in place for situations like this. Like a previous poster said, I really do hope everything checks out and the rules were followed, because if they weren't the ripple effect of someone trying to manipulate the situation to benefit themselves for single a high school hockey in western PA is really damaging. The foreign kid that was trying to use the sport he plays to build a bond with his school and peers will now be vilified if they get disqualified and it will create an opposite effect.  He'll feel terrible because all he knows is he was trying to find something in common with people and use it to "star status" himself at a school where he knows no one. All the other kids on the team that worked hard to make the playoffs for their school team will now not be able to play in them...what if they are seniors... That is a lot to risk breaking the rules. On the flip side the same set of standards goes for the teams that wouldn't make the playoffs. Imagine being a senior on that team and a rival team suddenly gets an elite goalie and they nearly go undefeated as they push you from the playoffs. That doesn't seem fair either.

 

As long as the rules were followed there should be a paper trail. Through the school's team board, through PIHLs board. This is why rules are put in place, because while it does seem silly to not "just let the kid play" you need to think of the other teams and kids that are affected by that statement. Especially if it is someone that_ someone else is basically using to benefit themselves or coaching resume.  I don't know if that is the situation, but again, follow the rules. Don't cheat. Do the right thing.

 

The kid in question is not here on a education visa through USA hockey  - he’s from a different state.

32 minutes ago, Mr.lovable said:

What it seems like to me is that the commissioner gave the goalie approval, then which he died and now Avonworth is trying to take advantage of his death and cheat there way into playoffs. ? 

SMFH - when your buddy was posting earlier today - I called this. Didn’t want to think I would be right. You montour folks are going to try and blame the guy that died. Pathetic. 

4 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

They should not have been allowed to play with a 2007 freshman Esmark AAA kid, but QV can play with an Esmark 2006 AAA sophomore goalie.  Ok that sounds logical.  

Well the goalie from QV has always lived there, his dad, I believe ran the Neville island rink at one point. Your not even comparing apples to oranges. 

7 minutes ago, Mr.lovable said:

Ah yes because the billet family would take on that stress and responsibility just to have a good high school team. I’m sure most aaa kids don’t even care that much about high school hockey.

You would be surprised. For those esmark kids it’s less stress, Puts some fun back in the game.  
 

as for the billet family taking on stress - we are talking about hockey parents here. Lots will do anything to advance their kid or get on a coaches good side. I’m sure the kid who’s family is billeting is getting kudos from esmark. I do know only a few years back (before this crazy Inflation) esmark does pay the billet families. There is a lot to gain for thier son at esmark and for their sons varsity team. 

Well, this guy might know a thing or two about what’s going on there. 
 

Sorry, happily -  I haven’t had to deal with PIHL for years. It’s just very obvious why montour ended up with this goalie. I didn’t know much about this situation until a week ago seeing some posts in a different thread so I started asking around. I didn’t start this topic if you didn’t notice. 
 

You’ll know you’re fate in a few hours I suppose. The outcome will be interesting. If your guys broke the rules or tried to pull a fast one, I hope you are disqualified from the playoffs. If everything is legit, I hope it’s all tossed out & your kids get to play. 
 

Edit - you deleted your response. I should have quoted it. I’m going to go out on a limb here but I don’t think it will bust - you are a montour hockey board member, team manager or the coach.

46 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

Just trying to help with all the inaccurate statements.  Some of the insinuations on here are kind of mind boggling.  Recruiting for PIHL hockey…AAA organizations placing kids in districts….billeting to recruit kids.  I could go on and on.   It’s amazing.  BTW I’m not a Montour parent and do not live in district.  

I don't know any of the mechanics but do know he lives in the district and attended school at montour, rosters were approved, he was approved by previous commissioner to play, and was NOT recruited placed or billeted for Montour hockey.  He just was excited to play a little HS hockey when he had time (10 games total but coach would have loved to play him all 20 if he was available) and happened to be pretty good so let’s screw that up.  BTW there are a LOT of AAA kids playing A hockey in PIHL so it’s not like he was some ringer.  
I’ll let all of you play this out in your minds now and won’t bother your board any further.  

so you know all this about the rosters, the kid etc but you are not associated with montour hockey in anyway ? ?
 

Sure there are plenty of local kids playing AAA travel hockey that play A. Also AA,AAA & B. This is a different situation. 
 

I can already see montour’s defense by your response - the commissioner died. Everything was done with him. Morbid. 
 

kids are not being recruited for PIHL hockey per say - it’s teams taking  advantage of getting them in their district. Look at canevin years ago, the place yuri started placing kids. Look at the rule pihl put in just for esmark’s visa players. Look at bishop mcort playing up in AA this year.

6 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

He lives with a billet family that lives in the district AND attends Montour HS.  

Ok, we get it you are a montour parent. Plenty of people have ask valid questions, some of us just trying to figure it out with nothing in this game. We are trying to understand it. You just keep repeating the same stuff over & over. Has your hockey board been transparent with you ? Was their an actual reason given for this current problem ? 

2 hours ago, Ihearthockey said:

The student is a billeted player, unless a court-appointed guardianship is in place between the player and the hostfamily. This does not pertain to foreign students who have been approved by USA Hockey.

Thanks! This explains a lot. In years past, the esmark kids that played pihl were always here on a visa. It sounds like this kid jumped a state or two - that would exclude him from the normal set of rules. If I’m understanding the rules correctly - the goalies parents would have had to sign over his guardianship. No parent is doing that.

PIHL put in a rule if you have visa players you have to play up a division - they are making mcort finally follow it this year. Montour moves down a division and grabs an out of state esmark goalie in the final hour. Does anyone remember what moon pulled some years back ? Getting moved to the open division, saying all their players quit because they didn’t have a goalie, lost some seniors and were going to get killed In AA after winning the pens cup. pihl moved them all the way down to the open division. all the sudden moon had  all their players back and ripped through it. This made pihl look really bad. Moon ended the season with ZERO co op players. This montour situation reminds me a lot of what moon pulled

what is it with these west hills teams ? 

49 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

Define illegal goalie.  Kid physically lives in the school district and physically attends the high school.  He tried out for Esmark in April and made the team.  His billet family placement didn’t happen until late July when the family volunteered to open house their home for him to play hockey out of state.   Seen other saying Esmark places him at Montour schools.  That’s prob about the funniest thing I’ve read on this so far.  A AAA  organization placing a kid in a school district to play PIHL hockey….that’s a good one.   Obviously don’t know what the heck they’re talking about on that one.  Montour school district is where his billet family lives.   Not sure what else would be needed.  He must have been pretty damn good.   Sounds like adults doing what they do best.  If you asked the kids they’d probably all say he’s fine he lives here let him play.  But……..

But here’s the problem - did montour submit the paper work properly ? Did they submit it at all ? Did the board make a mistake ? Why is this just now discovered ? These are questions only pihl & montour people would know.
 

you can try to kid yourself - us with no skin in the game see this for what it really is - montour needed a GOOD goalie. They didn’t want to suffer the ebb n flows of other programs that lose a senior goalie and suck for a few years. Montour did lose thier 3 year starting main goalie after last season ?I was just told montour was also moved down to A this season from AA. Montour’s leading scorer plays for esmark - texting with some coaches from pihl AA today - it was well known montour was going to struggle due to not having any good goalies. August rolls around, the montour esmark forward’s family decides to billet the esmark goalie. It’s very obvious why. 
 

Looking through the pihl rules it states in some cases a transfer has to sit out a year. The only real question - were all the pihl rules, guidelines followed. If not, they should be punished. Sure it sucks, as usual adults messing it up for kids but it’s also not fair to those teams that might have a bad goalie but still go out and play with what they have. If the Avonworth example is true, they managed it with one goalie. Montours roster currently shows THREE varsity goalies.

57 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Heard there is a PIHL hearing tonight Montour played with illegal Goalie.

Avonworth and QV going after them

What you hearing

Check the esmark thread. We’ve been talking about it for a few days. 

12 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

Define illegal goalie.  Kid physically lives in the school district and physically attends the high school.  He tried out for Esmark in April and made the team.  His billet family placement didn’t happen until late July when the family volunteered to open house their home for him to play hockey out of state.   Seen other saying Esmark places him at Montour schools.  That’s prob about the funniest thing I’ve read on this so far.  A AAA  organization placing a kid in a school district to play PIHL hockey….that’s a good one.   Obviously don’t know what the heck they’re talking about on that one.  Montour school district is where his billet family lives.   Not sure what else would be needed.  He must have been pretty damn good.   Sounds like adults doing what they do best.  If you asked the kids they’d probably all say he’s fine he lives here let him play.  But……..

But here’s the problem - did montour submit the paper work properly ? Did they submit it at all ? Did the board make a mistake ? Why is this just now discovered ? There are questions only pihl & montour people would know.
 

you can try to kid yourself - us with no skin in the game see this for what it really is - montour needed a GOOD goalie. They didn’t want to suffer the ebb n flows of other programs that lose a senior goalie and suck for a few years. Montour did lose thier 3 year starting main goalie after last season ?I was just told montour was also moved down to A this season from AA.
 

Looking through the pihl rules it states in some cases a transfer has to sit out a year. The only real question - were all the pihl rules, guidelines followed. If not, they should be punished. Sure it sucks, as usual adults messing it up for kids but it’s also not fair to those teams that might have a bad goalie but still go out and play with what they have. If the Avonworth  example is true, they managed it with one goalie. Montours roster currently shows THREE varsity goalies. 

15 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

This is a very interesting rumour.  Would this disqualify them from PIHL playoffs?

My assumption would be yes, if true. who knows with pihl. I’m happily years removed from dealing with them. Friend at ice castle did confirm there is a pihl meeting at ice castle. doesn’t know who, what, why etc. 

26 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

He's a good coach. Being a former NFL player is an asset, not a liability or a joke as you make it out to be. That's valuable experience when it comes to work ethic, structure, discipline, attitude, skill acquisition, what it takes to get to the next level, etc. Not to mention he knows hockey and is a good hockey coach.

I'll take that over Joe Pittsburgh from Blawnox that can barely stand on skates anymore and still talks about his mediocre high school hockey career in the early 90s.

Don’t compleltly disagree - didn’t kesiel try to be a coach or something ? Tried to take ober the mites program with the kicker ? I could be compleltly wrong, I recall hearing something of the sort. 

Someone from PIHL must read this board, montour is getting dragged into a hearing tonight. 
 

If the goalie was illegal or his paperwork not done correctly - PIHL is just now picked up on it - it’s a bad look for pihl finding it this late in the season, through this message board of all places. 
 

@Happy Hockey Fan you seem to be involved with montour, is this accurate - really a hearing tonight ? 

43 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Not to further a stereotype, but he grew up in Canada and played hockey as a kid. Not sure if he was ever good enough to play AAA or even faux AAA, but I don't think he's running on the ice with kicker's cleats.

The kickers cleats made me lol for real! 

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

https://www.pittsburghpenguinselite.com/coaches

Sorry, from the Coaches page

lol - the Steelers old kicker is a coach ? I don’t even have look, I’m assuming he has a young girl who plays. 

Looks like montour has 3 goalies on their varsity roster ??‍♂️
 If a varsity program brings in players from out of the district they should have to play up a divison or goto the co op divison. It appears pihl finally went through with all the threats they made to mcort, mcort are in AA this year. That program has always been single A.