Danner27

1 hour ago, ChiefKeef said:

First and foremost someone needs to step in with that program and get rid of the toxic elements of it.  There’s a lot of data out there to justify that. 
 

Any ideas I have wouldn’t be divulged on a public forum. I know full on how an honest well meaning hockey program can operate.  With eyes on development over meaningless national titles.  Most importantly hiring the right people. 
 

Regarding black bear _ if they wanted to, yes.  The Chicago Mission were the cream of the crop for a very long time in Chicago.  Coincidentally,  or maybe not (wink),  people grew tired of their crap.  While it wasn’t anything near what’s going on in Pittsburgh,  the people there still found it to be troublesome.  The Chicago Reapers were created and people jumped ship from the mission without hesitation.  The Reapers however were able to present that ‘grand’ perception of being a big time program.  That’s a credit to their PR and marketing people.  People were so desperate for change there,  even Windy City who is a small time operation has usurped the mission in most birth years. That would be black bears starting point, coming in with something newer and some core fundamentals around limiting outside player  involvement.  Having good people involved would sell itself. 
 

The vengeance are currently equipped to take on Cranberry kids fully.  They have 3 sheets,  they have a reputable staff there,  and they largely focus on Pittsburgh kids already.  If anyone could justify recruiting all over the world,  it would be them as they only have so much to work with locally.  To my knowledge they just built a new facility for the kids with a basketball court and fitness areas.  Thought I don’t know if that project is finished yet. 

Put it this way. What over rides the fascination with wearing a pro teams jersey and a corporate styled modern rink is the parent ego.  If people were educated on what they were getting involved with__ I know with out a doubt they would forsake the bravado of the program we are discussing.  Harmarville would be fine.  The kids becoming better hockey players is number one on the heart of every parent out there.  
 

I do have strong opinions but I’d like to point out that most of them are based on fact.  I speak in  jest at times,  to poke some fun.  Because some of the clowns in question get on this forum and act well,  like clowns.  However everything I’m saying is available by way of independent research.  The results on player advancement,  the rosters and the turn over on them year to year starting mostly at bantam major,  sometimes bantam minor through midget major.  There is currently midget team team there with ONE Pittsburgh born kid on it.  You’ve seen the stories in this thread,  Voit and many others like him moving out of PA who haven’t been mentioned due to being minors,  entire birthyears leaving and going to Harmarville or driving their kids two hours away to Cleveland.
 

With the right group of people,  and funding,  that shouldn’t be that hard to combat lol. 
 

Regarding Esmark,  I respect their longevity and the people there trying to make it work.  I just don’t think that location is going to serve them on a grand scale.  They have carved out a space in the community with what they have. I can’t see them growing past what they are now.  
 

 

I know a decent amount of kids from 99’s down to 04’s that left the mission for team Illinois. 

11 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Would that be Ty Voit who has led the OHL in points at times throughout this past season?  Who the pens treated like dirt so he left…

 

Yet they use him to credit themselves as one of their success stories…

 

it’s all a fucking joke.  But the real issues are finally being identified and all the dirty deeds are coming out.  Better late than never.  

Wasn’t good enough to be moved up 16U ? had to play 15’s.

you and I had a long conversation on here one night we ended up deleting ? 

1 hour ago, Jkersman01 said:

I think Carter Schade was part of that class, too. I may be off a year...

Nope, you are correct. The mighty 2003 BY to push Morehouse’s kid. 

19 hours ago, forbin said:

Does anyone know any player that started with PPE in 2012 and has since played exclusively with them until aging out? There has to be a few right?

Morehouse’s kid - drafted by every major junior leauge, ends up playing in the ncdc. 

13 hours ago, ChiefKeef said:

On the other hand, The Pittsburgh Vengeance have a completely viable program with names like Jon Zeiler, Nate Guinen, Gene Spadaro, Dave Dorsey, Marc Voit and others involved.  You will have to forfeit the Pens jerseys,  and the UPMC rink.  That’s it.  With those forfeiters you will receive proper development for your child from great coaches. And a hell of a lot better odds than 1.5 college commitment average. Coach’s who aren’t holding camps in Sweden to recruit players to come replace your kid.  As do the PPE staff. 
 

https://pphockey.com

I always agree with a lot of what you say, but Dave Dorsey ? Come on man! Building a dek hockey team ? 

1 hour ago, Law said:

Two teams in Western PA  becoming top ACHA programs are IUP (ranked 19th and 8-0 in the CHMA) and Pitt.  ( ranked 9th and 7-0-1 in the ESCHL)  So there are some programs that a

Im not really knocking those two schools, they have good programs but like every year - they won’t go anywhere at nationals. neither program has the players like a adrain, Ohio U etc. 

the point of my original comment, once you get past the top programs in all the classes there is not much difference between the classes. 

On 1/9/2023 at 10:10 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Ok, so what is so bad about PAHL?  What are the suggestions to make it better? Other than the Fair Play Points what are the other problems?  Seems like a decent league for kids who want to stay local to play!  

If you look at the U18 rankings - a few Pahl AA teams with those “weaker” schedules are ranked higher than the predators “aaa” team. 

Can’t say in my 20+ years of being around youth hockey I’ve ever heard of team pa. There was a team pittsburgh - one year they did real well, maybe won the tournement in the Midwest somewhere. 

1 hour ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

I am not sure how kids born in 2009-2014 (half of the counted registrations) has anything to do with college freshman. What if this chart was based on USA hockey registrations from when these current freshmen were 8U? Wouldn’t that show more of an accurate record of development?  I realize that it’s impossible to track kids moving from district to district as they age, but this chart is an oversimplification. 

It appears to track the players home district. 

2 hours ago, stickboy said:

3 are from PPE. 2 at PSU and 1 at Minnesota. Not sure on the 4th

3 from ppe correct. I believe the 4th is from esmark because he technically is a freshman this year. He joined mercyhurst from the nahl in febuary. 

Geez, I’ve been saying this for a few years but get yelled at “let them spend their money in tier 3! It’s their money and there is a chance”. (Paraphrasing)
 

I’ve said the ehl is the only tier 3 worth your money if you really want to waste - many wanted to argue the usphl is ?

the usphl is a joke, it’s a money making machine. Please stop letting your kids waste their time and your money with this garbage. It’s varsity 20U, not minny or Michigan - western pa & Ohio varsity. The majority acha teams are better hockey. 

5 hours ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

The whole NCAA thing makes my head hurt. Someone here probably has stats on this, but there are around 60 NCAA teams, and each team has a maximum of 18 scholarships. A lot of teams don't grant 18 scholarships, and it's often more like 9-10 total scholarships they split up among the 25-30 players on their roster. On top of that, something like 35-40% of NCAA D1 hockey players are foreign, and I sort of assume that the scholarship dollars go much more in their direction. So anyhow, hardly any NCAA roster spots compared to the number of kids playing, and many of those people on those rosters are not scholarship players....oh and scholarships are only a 1 year commitment anyhow. Coach thinks you're not working out? He'll give your scholarship to another player and cut you. Just nothing like football, which is 130 teams in the highest tier of D1 and 85 scholarships per team. Or basketball, which is only 13 scholarships per team, but over 350 teams. In both cases, very few foreign players, certainly nowhere near what hockey has.

https://www.ncsasports.org/mens-hockey/scholarships

Pretty on with the ncaa thoughts - most schools average around 8 full rides the remaining 10 scholarships get split in half, smaller programs will split them into quarter’s. Most don’t know the 3rd goalie gets nothing. They usually won’t even get in a game during their entire ncaa career. Teams have their 1 & 2, when one of these kids move on they bring in another that will play. Number 3 is the same kid for 4-5 years (until they graduated, drops out or quit). 

10 minutes ago, Law said:

I'm pretty sure it's the job of the home team in the CHMA and the CHE to forward game sheets to the ACHA. I might be wrong....

I really don’t know how the process works - parents I know with kids playing in both leauges often talking about how their teams games are never updated with the acha. Looking at both websites right now chma does appear to be up to date, the che is in worse shape - some teams only showing 4-5 games of player & team stats. Acually it appears the che standings are updated but all team stats and player stats are only updated for the first 4-5 games of the season. this looks like a leauge thing. They have the scores, game sheets if the standings are up to date. So the leauge is lazy, they don’t care or the teams don’t care, or somone has their hands in to many things -  hasn’t done their job ?

2 hours ago, Wes said:

When a person is so intertwined into things (DF), it usually isn't a good thing.  As one can easily see, the nepotism runs deep in the world of hockey. I don't care for his work with CHE and yet he's now going to run PAHL too... glad I no longer have kids in that org.  It was bad enough under Darcee.

 

I have a few friends who complain about both the chma and the che not communicating well with the acha (missing game scores etc). This is all under DF. I was shocked when I heard Pahl was highering him. My niece will have to suffer through his leadership ?

On 12/31/2022 at 9:59 AM, Wes said:

https://www.pihoref.com/management

 

How many things can Dave Fryer be in charge of ? The chma, che & piho. He’s set to to be the next Pahl president next year. one of the few good things pihl has done - remove him years ago. 

35 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Just to play devil's advocate a bit here, your stats show paths to NCAA. The @dazedandconfused shows players drafted into the NHL from the OHL vs from the USHL. Although there are very limited circumstances where OHL players can play NCAA, it almost never happens. So it's not quite an apples to apples comparison since "success" is measured differently.

I agree, I’m not sure why he even posted those stats. We all know the path to the pros, how special those players are etc. I’m assuming he thinks tier 3 juniors is good in response to mine about junior hockey leauge rankings ?  I don’t know, so I posted the paths to ncaa d1 - what leauges the players come from. 
 

maybe that article will help all these parents paying to play in tier 3 or the low Canadian leauges. 

https://collegehockeyinc.com/articles/2020/06/paths-to-ncaa-show-need-for-patience.php
 

note - when it says “usphl” that is the ncdc, players that moved up from the ncdc to another leauge or the rare kid that moved up from premier to the ncdc. The usphl lumps all their leauges together for marketing purposes. Look at the NA3 - one kid who had a quick stop and moved up to the nahl. That’s probaly on par with the usphl premier. 
 

the majority of ncaa d1 players come form the USHL, NAHL & BCHL. That’s around 85% of all ncaa d1 college hockey players. Straight out of prep school and mn hs comes close to the ncdc number. 
 

there is your facts. 

On 12/17/2022 at 2:01 PM, dazedandconfused said:

Danner..... he's such a clown. Full of contempt for everything because his kids didn't "make it" so he belittles E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G

The OHL has 20 teams. The USHL has 16. Here are the last 4 NHL drafts going back to pre-covid days

 

2022 NHL draft

USHL - 57 players

OHL - 35 players

 

2021 NHL draft

USHL - 50 players

OHL - 30 players

 

2020 NHL draft

USHL - 51 players

OHL - 31 players

 

2019 NHL draft

USHL - 52 players

OHL - 25 players

 

So...... for those who asked I think these facts should speak for themselves? But we all know the world today doesn't believe in facts..... it just gives in to those who yell the loudest.

 

 

 

So what’s your point ? We all know where most of the pros come from - Canadian major a, the ushl and a few euro leauges.
 

Look at the last 3 years of ncaa division 1 kids and the junior leagues they came from. 

1 hour ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

only the top 10-15 teams are legit jr teams in the usp premier anyways. 

Not even - none of them are. The only tier 3 worth your time and money is a handful of the EHL teams. 

5 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I'm not listening to anyone personally  I just posted it for people who were asking where it was being said.  

Just giving a heads up those that don’t know who this guy is. He’s even got the usphl premier ahead of the cchl ?

12 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/rating-the-junior-hockey-leagues-2022-edition-top-twenty-leagues-at-all-levels/

Don’t ever listen to this guy. He’s employed by the usphl. He owned a team at one point. He was an advisor at one point m. He’s has the ncdc ranked higher than the bchl lmao. 

8 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

 

I never said ANYTHING about the NAHL kid - zero, nada.  Nothing about him playing NAHL or PIHL.  You are projecting to try and make a point which is important to the likes of you.

Keep patting yourself on the back, since nobody else can stand you long enough to do it for you.  

you wrote - 

“And I quote - "Peters doesn’t have anyone near this kids pedigree or talent. This kid has played 1.5 seasons in the NAHL - Pihl varsity aaa is going to move so slow compared to what he’s been playing."

Proving once again you have no clue as to what you are talking about.  You've seen PT play?  Seen some of their best players that are two years younger than the NAHL kid on the SHAHA team that is currently ranked in the top 20?  Of course you haven't.  

But keep on keeping on - that is what you do best.”

you ARE talking about the nahl kid, you are implying the peters township pihl varsity team has players just as good or better. I’m sorry no kid currently playing in pihl is going to hang with a kid that has played 1.5 years in the nahl.
Telling me I have no clue what I’m talking about ? Have you ever watched a nahl game ? If you have you would realize this kid is taking a huge step backwards. Unless this kid is completly burned out, mind fd or doesn’t care anymore (these are real possibilities) their won’t be a player in PIHL that can skate with him. 
 

pihl has its place, nothing is a better experience for all these kids (pre covid) to play in front of a packed rink of their peers. This isn’t Minnesota. PIHL is what it is. 

6 hours ago, Puck01 said:

Great points. I hope the NAHL kid is the real deal & NA challenges PT for Pens Cup. As long as the States are won by the Pittsburgh HS teams & not Philly Prep Schools that's sounds good to me. As for the pedigree of the PT kid he was drafted in the NCDC from SHAHA. It is very hard to get drafted if you do not play for a top 20 team with a common name. He could have played NCDC this year & been a top 6. Next year it is possible he makes a USHL team. I think a lot of times kids leave way to early & they are not ready & they come home. I would like to see him stay another year selfishly he is fun to watch.

Pay an advisor, you will get drafted to the ncdc. Their draft is considered a joke. Look how many rounds it has for 12 teams or whatever. They use the draft for advertising. You ever see how many kids are paying to be at an ncdc teams tryout ? 

14 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Well, he did not play on a NAHL team at 17 years old because he is 16 years old.  Math is not that hard.  He did not play for a PPE team ranked in the top 5-10 but he does play for a team that beat your beloved PPE.

Sure you saw him play last year. 

the kid coming from the nahl is an 04 ? He’s 18, played 50 games in the nahl last year. He would have been 17.  
 

Yes, I saw your harolded peters / shaha kid play last year. Nice player. 

3 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

And I quote - "Peters doesn’t have anyone near this kids pedigree or talent. This kid has played 1.5 seasons in the NAHL - Pihl varsity aaa is going to move so slow compared to what he’s been playing."

Proving once again you have no clue as to what you are talking about.  You've seen PT play?  Seen some of their best players that are two years younger than the NAHL kid on the SHAHA team that is currently ranked in the top 20?  Of course you haven't.  

But keep on keeping on - that is what you do best.

It’s very obvious you have never watched real junior hockey. Yes, pihl varsity is going to feel so slow for this kid. He will have so much more time to think A 1/2’aecond will feel like 5 minutes to him.  he won’t be seeing anyone with the speed he played with and against in the nahl nor the physical play. 

you should delete that comment, it really shows you know nothing about hockey PERIOD.