Saucey

Not everyone is there for the AAA experience. In fact, I think the Icemen have morphed into the new Aviators. It's really hard to believe anyone thinks they are AAA at this point. Maybe a new peewee parent could be fooled. Icemen and their ilk are a choice of emotion that I think most parents regret by the end of the season. If you are unhappy with placement or whatever, you can go there because they always need players. There is always a home somewhere around Pittsburgh for the disgruntled. Teams like the Icemen are your back pocket consolation prize. Expensive, but hey, it's your money and you can spend it how you want. It defies logic to me that a parent would rather go play with the team that takes anyone rather than the one who tried to place skill right within a league that tries to do the same thing so the kids play similar competition all year. Do organizations get it right all the time? No. But the Icemen don't give two craps about getting it right. Or you. Or your kid. That organization desperately needs your check book. An emotional choice that ends up being very expensive for you and bad for your kid. And you will then blame the bad season on the Icemen coaches or the other kids on the team or the organization you left. P.S. it all ends for more than 95 percent of kids at age 17. You only have a few more years of this nonsense...and then you are done.

Perhaps because the Yeti are there? At this point, you have to know what you are in for at Icemen. There is lots of info out there and you only need to ask someone with older players. I can't even feel bad for people playing there any more. Have fun storming the castle.

I don't know, they had a huge impact, yes, but I have friends that had similar complaints before the Pens made their elite program. I really wouldn't know, though.

Black Bear tweeted they are ready to buy the Island and will commit to keep the programs.

What if the fit is because the parent deems their kid more talented than they are? No one cares about that. Not every hockey market works this way. Tier Ii is dying in PAHL. Except for the programs heavily recruiting, most programs are putting together rosters of half AA and lower skill. Everyone wants the AAA experience. Black Bear has its own Tier II league, everyone will be able to travel all over eventually to play Tier II hockey soon at big bucks. Thankfully, grumpy me won't have kids playing anymore. I just don't understand spending all that time and money doing that. Ya ya ya, let people spend money how they want. I am all about access and growing the game. All of you can afford to fund your kids kid's every dream and whim, fantastic. Me, I gotta fund their college and my retirement. It's like it's not worth doing unless you are playing at the highest level. Yes, this happened all over for every kid's activity. That doesn't make it right. I am old, I grew up in a time where you played ball to play. None of this elite crap. It seemed a lot more fun. Kids don't even seem to have fun as an option anymore. Is this approach to children's activities healthy for children?

What else is there to do in Athens? Maybe Pittsburgh has a lot of entertainment options. Also, with our kids' own hockey schedules, we rarely have time to catch another team's games.

Some of the other rosters may disappear. I know there are kids on the ones still listed that got spots on other teams. Team shopping. Gotta crank up the BS meter a little higher...

Yep. Steel City is a perfect example of what I have been talking about regarding resources not being spent at the younger ages. All top heavy. With only a few PAHL programs creating new players, all the organizations fight over the players coming out of the programs who make the investment. All the programs, no matter the level. Year after year. And then the ridiculous heavy recruiting commences. This isn't a healthy hockey market. Big Bear seems to concentrate at each level, anyway. Parent driven hockey results in poor development of the market.

You know, it seems the really crazy nasty people are no longer posting. This has settled down into something good. Ever check out a forum in Michigan? ?

It irritated me. Does so many hours at the rink that it hurt my marriage at one point suffice? I've definitely earned my opinions.

Because it needs expensive improvements as they were quoted saying in articles? I mean, it's all speculation. I think it's a shock to the community and people are just worried what further ramifications there may be.

I've also known PPE kids never talk about how much fun they are having. And parents pushing their children into playing on these 'AAA' teams when their kids don't want to be there because they are not competitive with the teams they are playing. So they might be resilient in their losses but still not having much fun along the way. If it isn't fun, then no one should be playing. Fun and development take a back seat to this push to the top. Could be it just depends on the kid. Again, a parent driven market.

If Black Bear becomes an owner of rink and a league, it seems. Increases costs. But maybe that has to happen for improvements and profit. But....that is also a monopoly. But better that than a loss of the facility entirely.

Hockey does discriminate against race. It is improving, but the sport has a really long way to go. Money is a huge part of it, and you can't untangle it. If people with the power and with the money really wanted to make changes, they would have to spend money. When push comes to shove, that money does not get spent. We would have seen something viable now on the Hill and in a rink in the East End. USA Hockey, too. Their current diversity effort consists mostly of offering programming once a month to get others to become change makers. The audience for that programming is the ones already interested in change. The problem is, USA Hockey IS a change maker, but would have to spend more money than this little programming to really get there. They aren't even willing to treat their successful women's Olympian program the same as the men. The NHL likes its college developed hockey players. Maybe they should pay attention to this. Not a good trend for them either, if more and more schools drop their ice programs.

Sad for the market, considering the upgrades they mentioned the rink needs. Which we all know are overdue. Hope we don't lose another rink.

I agree and I don't. My main purpose in writing this post was to talk about whether the way this is working grows the game. It's just developed into, 'it's my money let me spend it how I want'.Supports my belief that our market is parent and pocket book driven, not development driven I think playing a sport is worth it. This new company coming in, I heard they just make things more expensive. It's such a fun game. I'd like to see entry points at any age and income. Ah well.

BTW I appreciate everyone's responses. This is a great discussion.

That's a parent perspective. That doesn't mean that is helpful to growing hockey around here. And yes, they all end up in beer league. So many don't understand what you just said. They think playing for these teams will get their kid somewhere.

No, I mean, you all are telling me that your child gets to tell you what they want to do. Come on. There are ways to guide your child without 'crushing their dream'. They all say they want to be NFL players and what not.

As others have observed, organizations are trying really hard to reach parents younger and younger, to lock them in. There is money to made from those that don't know any better. There is no AAA hockey that is recognized as such till 14u. Till you can compete for a National title. Gotta lock em in.

I hear this about Esmark, that they are upfront about the skill that came to try out. I actually don't think Esmark is a pretender program. They do give kids exposure. Good on your child.

Never said they are good for hockey.

There is so much you need. Size, skill, willingness to work. Luck. Connections. Money. You can have all that and still not make it to the chel or college hockey.

Not for me. There are sufficient levels already in PAHL for the level of play that exists. You are discussing a separate league for tier Ii outside PAHL, really. And what are you talking about, PAHL has to do more? PAHL teams can play as many games as they want so long as they complete the PAHL schedule. Lots of PAHL teams do just that. Your question starts to get more to the heart of things. Lots of these AAA teams want a crazy amount of games and if they are within an organization with tryouts, you may end up with parents who don't want to do that. So many of these teams want to hand pick their players. 80 games a season is nuts for children.

I'm not saying that. I have lots of criticisms of PPE and I don't like what happened to hockey around here when they came in. But you have to go through them. So, to exclude them from the conversation, pretend they don't exist, makes no sense to me, either. They may refuse to play in the regular season, but who is really challenging them in districts? Esmark every once in a while. Vengeance 06 team came within four goals. Again....we don't have a AAA league of 6 to 8 teams.