Saucey

I agree and I don't. My main purpose in writing this post was to talk about whether the way this is working grows the game. It's just developed into, 'it's my money let me spend it how I want'.Supports my belief that our market is parent and pocket book driven, not development driven I think playing a sport is worth it. This new company coming in, I heard they just make things more expensive. It's such a fun game. I'd like to see entry points at any age and income. Ah well.

BTW I appreciate everyone's responses. This is a great discussion.

That's a parent perspective. That doesn't mean that is helpful to growing hockey around here. And yes, they all end up in beer league. So many don't understand what you just said. They think playing for these teams will get their kid somewhere.

No, I mean, you all are telling me that your child gets to tell you what they want to do. Come on. There are ways to guide your child without 'crushing their dream'. They all say they want to be NFL players and what not.

As others have observed, organizations are trying really hard to reach parents younger and younger, to lock them in. There is money to made from those that don't know any better. There is no AAA hockey that is recognized as such till 14u. Till you can compete for a National title. Gotta lock em in.

I hear this about Esmark, that they are upfront about the skill that came to try out. I actually don't think Esmark is a pretender program. They do give kids exposure. Good on your child.

Never said they are good for hockey.

There is so much you need. Size, skill, willingness to work. Luck. Connections. Money. You can have all that and still not make it to the chel or college hockey.

Not for me. There are sufficient levels already in PAHL for the level of play that exists. You are discussing a separate league for tier Ii outside PAHL, really. And what are you talking about, PAHL has to do more? PAHL teams can play as many games as they want so long as they complete the PAHL schedule. Lots of PAHL teams do just that. Your question starts to get more to the heart of things. Lots of these AAA teams want a crazy amount of games and if they are within an organization with tryouts, you may end up with parents who don't want to do that. So many of these teams want to hand pick their players. 80 games a season is nuts for children.

I'm not saying that. I have lots of criticisms of PPE and I don't like what happened to hockey around here when they came in. But you have to go through them. So, to exclude them from the conversation, pretend they don't exist, makes no sense to me, either. They may refuse to play in the regular season, but who is really challenging them in districts? Esmark every once in a while. Vengeance 06 team came within four goals. Again....we don't have a AAA league of 6 to 8 teams.

Didn't have a choice until midget. And that was dependent on his skill and willingness to work. I won't send a child to college just because they want to, pay for it and there is no indication that they would do well or work. That's not good for the child or my pocket book. My background is definitely not what ever the child wants they get.

So says the parent of a AAA kid on Icemen. Because I don't think it helps our area. I get it a parent doesn't care. You just want your kids happy. And I don't believe that kids find it fun to be beat down by large margins. Again, it's parents driving development. But Mid Am or someone interested in developing the game, should be looking at this trend.

Absolutely. Exemplifies my point, you have no players in the pipeline you've got nothing eventually.

Absolutely, you get it. We don't have six to 8 AAA teams when some of them aren't in the top of Tier II obviously. But if we are talking about AAA, you are not talking about AAA if you exclude PPE. That's exactly what these AAA teams want to do, ignore PPE and pretend they are AAA.

Those kids belong in in house. Travel hockey is too much for those kids. Used to be, low level hockey teams weren't traveling. And I hated he idea that high level hockey means no fun.

So......six teams that play each other with PPE most likely winning all the games? Or are you going to exclude PPE, because I doubt they'll play. You mean..... a different AA league. I hate BY model for our area. If your skill puts you at the top team, that's where you go. If people are dissatisfied with PAHL, I get it, but current situation stinks.

If we had 150 AAA players around here we would see more than one or two players making the national development team. Small hockey market with a lot of wishful thinking.

It is repeated on this Board constantly how having 6 to 8 'AAA' teams is growing the game in Western Pa'. I challenge the long term sustainability of this notion. We have a long term problem around here with this trend. The biggest fallacy with this is that PAHL programs in general are not using their resources in the minor levels. Few are doing anything but concentrating on their top teams. The AA and AAA get all the ice, etc. So when these programs need talent, they are not pulling from their own ranks. They are raiding the programs that do a good job developing their young, less experienced players, and there aren't that many of them. That means there are not enough players to go around. Consolidation happens into one or two super teams, they have no one to compete against, and have to travel to play. Increases the cost of hockey and does not grow the game. Increasing costs creates a barrier to entry. AA play should not require travel outside of PAHL. And that's what the low level teams are, AA. This is driven by coaches and parents who are only interested in their own child. What do they care if the lower levels are developing? Their kid is taken care of. I'm sorry, this is not growing the game. Parents of kids who are playing minor levels, you need to become active in your boards. All the eggs should not be placed in one or two baskets. Directors of hockey ops, other people are also paying for their kids to play. Their children also deserve to develop. And we know kids develop in different stages, so they should be given that opportunity.

To know that, your kid went to all those tryouts and you have a check book for the Icemen. If kids got better playing there, I would be quiet. A lot of these AAA options are not AAA, but the kids do seem to improve. Not so with the Icemen 'Hockey is so much better in Western Pa'. Except this program isn't contributing to that statement. Parent demand does not equal development. Shifting players to more expensive hockey without development does not grow the game.

Icemen as an organization has fielded one AAA team. That was the team with the owners son and their first year. After that, the highest level was AA. Totally the story of the dad wanting to fulfill his kids dream. They will form teams just to form teams, regardless of skill level. If there is no other option to fill the roster and the parent is writing a check, you can go there and say you are AAA. Are you doing your kid any good? No. You do not create AAA players by playing on that kind of team. Does your kid get 'exposure'? No. Scouts go to certain events and tournaments that teams like the Icemen do not get into. Can the coach guarantee your kid will make NAHL or anything else? I mean, if you are listening to that kind of pitch and buying it, can I have access to your check book? There are no guarantees. If I wanted to call my kid AAA, this is the worst choice out there. All you are doing is doubling the cost of your kid playing hockey. Will your kid become a better player? No. I have known a lot of kids that went there who play the same as before they went. So what are you paying for, exactly? Just the ability to say you are AAA.

NP 06 AA schedule from my hockey rankings shows that they played that Preds AAA team and won. ?‍♂️

Yes. If the parents want to proceed the organization will do it. What's your point?

This isn't new. This organization in my experience is very up front about the talent that comes out. If they don't think the team will compete at AAA, they tell parents that and give them a choice as to whether to proceed. I think the teams on the website are last seasons, btw.

I know nothing about the issue but I can almost guarantee that you won't get good insight here. Plus most people that post things such as this are looking to stir trouble and are suspected as much as you already have seen. Anonymous forums are incredibly unreliable sources of information.

Parents on that ride believe their kid will be the one not cut. ?‍♂️ Just like most of the ones who got cut will go to the next best 'AAA' option around here until they land. Some just opt to play high school hockey or, most sad in my opinion, give up hockey altogether.