Danner27

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

I don't know enough to compare the teams overall, but I agree with your assessment of the individual players. The Peters kid has at least the same "pedigree", but he is two years younger which makes a difference.

I saw the peters kid play last year, he was a nice looking player. He doesn’t have a “pedigree”. He didn’t play for PPE on a top 5-10 ranked team all those years, national team camp along with playing in the nahl at 17 years old. 

3 hours ago, Puck01 said:

The NAHL kid from Johnstown will definitely improve the NA team, he should be one of the top players in AAA possibly the best. The Peters Sophomore has his Pedigree & then some just a couple years younger. As for adding one player even an NAHL player in AAA I doubt that RIP's much of anything but make the shots a bit closer next time they play Peters. Peters beat them 4-1 & out shot them by nearly a 2 to 1 margin. Peters won their last 5 games scoring 30 goals allowing 6 & beat CP, NA & CC which should all finish top 5 in AAA. Should make for an interesting 2nd half of the season. 

I don’t know much about the teams, if peters is that much more dominate then everyone else in their class, sure they should still win it. What I am saying - a kid moving all the way down to pihl after 1.5 years of actually playing and contributing in the nahl is going to dominate the ice when he is out there. I still would like to hear why this kid is all sudden going backwards this far. That would be like some u16 ppe top player going down to play u16 Pahl a minor. 

11 hours ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

If we were talking about A, I would tend to agree, but AAA teams tend to be deeper and the kid isn't exactly lighting the NAHL on fire. Not that HS hockey is anywhere close to the NAHL, but Peters has some kids who could put up 0 points in 13 NAHL games.

Peters doesn’t have anyone near this kids pedigree or talent. This kid has played 1.5 seasons in the NAHL - Pihl varsity aaa is going to move so slow compared to what he’s been playing.
 

There is an 02 that played half a season in the nahl (he’s in the acha now) he averaged something crazy like 4 points a game in PIHL before going into the nahl and producing nothing when he did get in the line up at 19 years old. Now imagine going backwards in a huge way. The NA kid going from the nahl, were has had some production, WAY down to pihl should have his way out there. it’s almost comical to think peters or anyone in pihl will have comparable players. 

it would be one thing if the kid was like some that Johnstown takes just for the money. gets in a game here and there or yuri gets them in for a look, but this kid last year at 17 years old played 50 games and produced some points on a 4th line in the second best junior league in the states that favors much older kids.   

Curious why this kid is coming to play for NA - did Johnstown cut him ? Burned out ? He’s still young by nahl standards. Seems odd to leave even though he’s not producing much on the score sheet this year.  He’s only 18 years old. He’s got two more seasons there to develop. Would love to hear the story or reasoning behind this. 

On 11/8/2022 at 6:44 AM, Puck01 said:

Mark Chavez is the best skating coach in this area. He breaks the stride down & your kid will hate it, but he will fix it through time. not sure if he still does lessons or is even still in the area. The key to having a good stride is getting lessons at the start of your hockey path if you can. The longer you carry a bad stride & habits the harder it is to fix it. Marry Ann Watkins from RMU is next best but it will be impossible to get one on one lessons she is booked until the year 3100!  

Chavez is out of the business, guy was really good at what he did. 

As many that want to, just have to declare at the start of the season. 

How big is he ? Does he have long legs ? Sometimes there is nothing you can do, the kid has to grow into his body. He’s 14, he will be hitting another growth spurt this spring - summer. There are many factors that have to do with skating strides. Not all of the are training. A lot of it is natural athletic ability, family genes etc. there is some guys in the nhl that have terrible strides for that level of play. For whatever scentific reason the smaller kids develop a good stride much earlier than the bigger kids. There is certain local kid in the ushl right now. Scouts knocked him and dismissed him until he was 17 because he didn’t have a “perfect stride”. Now at 19 he’s really smooth.growing into his body was his biggest problem. At 14 he was 6’ he grew pretty fast at a young age. he’s 6’4 now. 

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

I said “showcases” in my post - do you need a direct quote?  “If a player plays in the right tournaments / showcases and is of higher level talent, he will get noticed.”

Do you need a DIRECT quote ? 
I said LEAUGE showcase aka the USHL, NAHL etc. I’m not taking about some bs youth tournement that gets a manufacturers name on it and they call it showcase. 

3 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

How many and where?

And did they survive the final roster cuts?

Taking a quick look (I’ll save you all the tenders and drafts) - kids that “made it” to a real junior team - stuck and playing.  

Esmark U18

2021-22 - SIX

2020-21 - FIVE

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

“Being at Esmark matters.”  Posters here have laid out where Esmark currently lies at each level.  One of the guys you mention?  His team is ranked 45th at Tier 1 and 5th in MidAm out of ten teams.  Call me underwhelmed.

In prior posts on this forum you said things become important for players at the checking level.  

Then it was U16.

Now it is only U18.

Keep moving those goal posts.

If a player plays in the right tournaments / showcases and is of higher level talent, he will get noticed.

 

ok we know your kid plays for shaha or whatever. Keep thinking tournaments get a player noticed, they don’t. Leauge showcases & camps are what does it along with your coaches having contacts watch - push a player, or you can higher an advisor to put your kid in some camps for a look. The only tournament a player not on someone’s radar will have a chance to get a look is the district tournement when scouts and teams are there to see their current recruits. 

U15 is when it starts to matter - U18 is a players last chance. 

5 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

We'll see if that remains true over the next few years. I think they've lost too much momentum with the younger years for them to just assume that they'll all of a sudden add all these good players at midget.

We'll see next year. 2008s will be enter their midget minor year. You really think all of a sudden add a bunch of 08s from the #6 Vengeance (with tons of South Hills kids) or #55 SHAHA (full of South Hills kids) to join a #119 Esmark 08 team in New Ken? I highly doubt it.

It's one thing to say that only Esmark and PPE matter at the midgets, but it's another thing completely for it to be actually true. PPE certainly matters. Not so sure Esmark will anymore.

Look, I know a lot of Tenders and draft picks never work out. Some are complete bs BUT look how many kids got placed into real junior hockey from last years Esmark U18 team. Last years  Vengance ZERO. predators ZERO. Icemen ZERO. 
 
So yes, being at esnark matters. Not as much as ppe but it still does. Could that change ? Maybe, but Yuri & Dave have many connections in real junior hockey, they do get their players in front of the right people. 

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

 

22 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I think there is some perception out there that, like Pens, you get replaced with non-Pittsburgh billeting at the older levels. In this case Russian/Eastern Euro kids.  I'm not sure to what extent that is true as I don't have the rosters but I do think most of the teams end up with a number of them.   

It’s not really true. Look at esmark’s 16’s & 18’s over the last 5 years or so. Each team has 2, sometimes 3 max euro players out of 20. They don’t kick locals to the curb for these players, in my kids days they would take 16 skaters at tryouts not 18 knowing they had 2 coming over. 

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

I did leave out 18U. My point was that Esmark is slipping and losing traction with younger BYs and I wanted to get some perspectives about why this is happening. I don't think anyone is saying that Esmark is a bad program, they just have some big hurdles to overcome because of their location. As RMU Alum pointed out, there are also some other things they could be doing better. But right now, except at the highest age groups, they are losing out big time to PPE, Vengeance, and surprisingly even SHAHA and Preds for many BYs.

I’ll be the first admit esmark location is awful. Don’t go into the sheetz after dark. There is a reason they installed black lights in the bathroom years back. 
 

midget - PEE > Esmark > everyone else it doesn’t matter faux aaa to Pahl aa all the same. 

On 10/24/2022 at 1:03 PM, RJUSHL said:

It's really surprising how Esmark doesn't seem to have a foothold at all with good players in the younger birth years. Even bantam and midget birth years are kind of brutal. What's going on? I thought they were supposed to be the only real competitor to PPE? Is it the location, the rink, or something else? They're just not getting the players. I know someone here will say, "No one cares about peewee hockey!" Well apparently Esmark cares about 12U hockey because they are putting together teams (or at least trying to) at that age.

This is pretty brutal...

2011
Pens
Preds
Vengeance
Esmark

2010
Pens
Vengeance
Preds
Rebellion
Esmark

2009
Pens
Vengeance
Preds
SHAHA
Esmark

2008
Vengeance
Pens
SHAHA
Preds
Esmark

15U
Pens
Esmark
SHAHA
Vengeance
Preds

16U
Pens
SHAHA
Esmark
Preds

Seems like Esmark needs a revamp, or at least re-evaluate their current strategy.

You left out 18U - not to mention there are Pahl AA teams with their “weak” schedule ranked higher than a team like the preds. That’s embarrassing. These Pahl teams are on the heals of the vengeance. Gilmour is not once what it was, it’s glorified aa. SSA is no different than  a Pahl AA program these days.
 

Keep telling us about the extra icetime, coaching etc. it’s working out real well ffs! 

10 hours ago, Gina M said:

My son is on one of the AAA teams.  It is all politics.  We have one boy on our team that gets extended play due to his family being in the organization for years.  He is not the next Sydney Crosby.  He is arrogant and treats the other teammates poorly.  However, he does nothing wrong.  Definitely not fair.  Not sure AAA is worth the money.

As saucy stated - that’s everywhere, every sport. It’s not really what this thread is about but it’s definitely something that would sour (sorry to use this term) uneducated parents. 

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

How is the NCDC these days? Has it been improving or no? Seems like the NAHL is still probably an overall better league.

It’s still considered tier 2.5 for the most part. It hasn’t changed much. It’s decent hockey. The top line on just about every team is nahl capable. It starts to drop hard when you get to the 3rd & 4th lines along with bottom d pairing’s.  The bottom half is pretty much tier 3 kids that have big money advisors. 

2 hours ago, Saucey said:

I wouldn't knock anymone for paying $14000 a year to play junior Tier III who also understands ncaa div III is as high as their kid is going to get. But....is that really what people are aiming for when they do that?

I suppose that’s the goal ? A lot of these ncca3 teams -  if you are willing to pay the high cost of the private school and your kid is half decent, he/she will make the team. Sports are used as a lure for these small d3 schools to get ppl to pay the bill. A lot of them are not good on the education side. If you want to pursue ncaa d3 or tier 3 juniors the EHL is the only way to go in the states. The usphl is u20 varsity hockey. 
 

speaking of tier 3 junior hockey - Wooster was just tossed out of the usphl. as crooked as that leauge is, what do you have to do to get tossed out ???!!!!??? 

18 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Tier 3 juniors are garbage? They do advance players to NCAA Div. 3. And I wonder if you have ever watched a game at that level.

I’d also like to know what your qualifications are to make such a statement. Were you such a high level player that you can say that the hockey is no good? Have you been appointed the arbiter of what is or isn’t good hockey by the hockey gods? I guess if you think that Tier 3 is no good, then you probably do not think much hockey besides the absolute top levels can be good. 
 

I myself enjoy watching all levels of hockey, from mite to to midget to junior and pros. I find joy in seeing kids compete at all levels. Even at the lowest skill levels a kid can make a play that makes me smile. 

Smh - keep playing your usphl bill. The EHL is the best of tier 3 in the states and it’s not that great. 
 

I have seen enough “ncaa” division 3 hockey to want to vomit. @Pa Hockey and I discussed this somehwere a few times on this board. 

8 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Case in point, a recent Preds 03 worked his way onto a NAHL team this summer.  It appears he had been cut, but now picked up by an NCDC team.  Best of luck to him as he progresses.  That's not bad for coming from one of the faux programs - and further ahead than a lot of his birthyear peers at PPE/Esmark.

If we are talking about the same kid -  he started out at PPE, got cut went to the  predators, nobody noticed him then he went to esmark for U18, yuri got him some looks,  made a nahl team, cut to the na3 then moved over to the ncdc. This kid has serious talent if we are talking about the same kid. His goal is to get back to the nahl. This kid was and is better than 80% of the players that played on that special 03 ppe BY. He should have never been cut. Pure politics at its best. His talent interfeared with the kids PPE wanted to advance from that BY.  There is currently another western pa kid on this same ncdc team that played for the shaha bantam tier 2 national champs, went to the predators for U15, left for esmark at U16. Yuri has a relationship with this ncdc team. A good amount of esmark kids over the past 2-3 years have got solid looks, along with some games from this team. 

11 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I think the following is the real reason...we, as humans, are programmed to think our kids are the best and/or want the best for them. Most good ones. Quite a few parents have trouble telling their kids no, too. They don't want to be the dream crushers and literally will finance their child's dream with their house or retirement. Even when all logic tells them it is not going to happen for their child. Or they can flat out afford it and don't care.

Those feelings are some powerful stuff. You can't fight that with stats or logic or whatever. It's rooted in wanting to do right by your child, too, so it's hard to fault parents.

This is a parent driven market. Until an organization steps in to rein in

 

 the AAAs nothing will change. And really, then a non USA sanctioned league would start. 

If the powers that be don't care why should any of us?

 

 

@Saucey that’s a great reply. I myself was guilty of not saying no when my kids were much younger, not so much with sports but life in general.  In life we all want the best for our kids, we want our kids to out live us, have even better lives. I understand your logic BUT year after year after year with these few teams it’s the same result. It’s maddening - parents are not doing what’s best for their kids imo. Tier 3 garbage junior hockey has somewhat gutted midget aaa over the past few years, a lot of the dream chasing parents gravitate towards it. So who is left to fill the roster of these basement dwelling “aaa” teams ? is it really just education - uneducated parents thinking they are opening a door for their kid ? 

Ok, found the parents. 

1 hour ago, Pucks11 said:

It is their money, why do you care how they spend it? If they want to listen to what people have to say on here then cool if they don't want to listen then cool. Maybe they just like the organization or coach that they are playing for and don't give a shit about the rankings. ????

It’s not even much a money question -I am trying to understand WHY. these teams clearly can not compete at the tier 1 level, it’s not making their kids better. What’s the allure ? As I stated above, year after year it’s the same story. Season over as soon as it starts. PAHL teams ranked higher. 

My niece playing still makes me follow some youth hockey - mainly midget. 
 

I took a look today at the rankings - its only the start of October, already the predators “AAA” & Vengance “AAA teams are eliminated from the district tournement. This is one of the main reasons you play tier 1 - to make the district tournement. This is like a never ending story. By October the faux western pa teams are already out! So I have to ask the parents with kids on these teams - WHY ? I don’t want to hear better competition, there are western pa PAHL teams ranked higher ffs. SSA isn’t a tier 1 program anymore.  I don’t want to hear better coaching because the guy running the south hills midget teams is a terrible coach showing up for money. I hope it’s not the my kid plays “AAA” ego because that’s pretty embarrassing to see this many AA teams ranked higher.   I am really trying to understand the thought process. Every year this song is on repeat. 
 

U18 midget over all district rankings 

U18 tier 1 district rankings below  - culver hasn’t played enough games. Culver will take a top 3 spot. did the icemen go away ? 10 teams in the district once culver enters. A team will probably need close to a 94 rating to make top 6 and the tournament. Current 7, 8 & 9 are sunk and done for the year. 

5 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

Yes, after all the stuff we all heard that it was a done deal, it turns out that the Devil is in the details. I've heard that some of the repairs required are prohibitively expensive, including a rumor I heard that air quality is an issue.

Air quality is an issue there, it’s almost criminal.