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  1. One would suspect that the AAA Champion would disagree quite strongly?
    5 points
  2. Some may say the life experiences of living with a host family in a new city, and traveling the US and Canada while developing relationships with that family, coaches, and players all while pushing oneself to succeed at the highest level of their sport might be more beneficial than attending a dance at the Burgettstown Days Inn.
    4 points
  3. The back referee is the exact person to make that call. That is why they are there. There is no way the low official could have seen the spear through the crowd. Again, doesn't matter what the intent was. USA Hockey is very clear on it. Any spearing motion is 5+GM at a minimum. Not exactly sure who that official was, but I am familiar with the process for assigning those officials. They are all very experienced.
    4 points
  4. Since many have chosen to look down on the Aviators, I figured I would post a little upside (truth) for you about the Aviators. Full disclosure, I'm a parent. Yes, a few years ago they were down to only a small handful of teams. Two, maybe three teams left including their 19u ladies team. They secured a home at Alpha and since then have grown to 8 teams, with 4 this past season competing in PAHL AA division. Two of those teams competed in the PAHL 14u AA minor(2010) division and both were playoff teams. A bounce either way could have had both teams playing for the championship. One of those teams won the regular season and playoff championship. It was actually their second consecutive championship in that division. In fact, over the past 2 seasons that team has compiled a record of 86-15-4 with a goal differential of 518-201. They played everyone who would play them. The record alone should show they need to be playing higher level competition. The problem is, without the 3rd "A", they can't get those games. The only local AAA organization that would agree to play them was Vengeance. Yes, the Vengeance won the game 5-1 (for those who wish to find out what the final was) however, it was a tight game (2-1) through two periods. The Aviators wore down, plain and simple. It was their second game of the day vs. the Vengeance only game of the day. So for those to say can't even field a decent AA team, or it’s one “Dad Coach” who is recruiting, well those are just ignorant statements. They had 4 this past season with 2 fantastic teams in the 2010 group alone. Next, to say it's a money grab, again that's simply just ignorant. The kids earned their rights to play higher competition and as I stated before, they can't get those games without the 3rd "A". I was happy to see someone explain Tier 1 for those unaware, and I just learned the true difference this year. No, you can't simply declare Tier 1 AAA. Doesn't work that way, and as far as Tier 1 or Tier 2 goes, there are tons of 2010 Tier 1 AAA teams out there ranked well below the lowly 2010AA 14U 1 Aviators. Many teams ranked above them are there simply because of strength of schedule. Because they are "AAA", they can get those games and benefit greatly from it when it comes to MHR, which drives everything in youth hockey. Not gonna argue what “true AAA” is and what is not. Is PPE the top team? Yep. Quite honestly it doesn’t matter. It’s nothing more than a snap-shot in time. Where they are today. None of the A’s indicative of their collective hockey futures or futures in general. There are kids playing at that “top level” today who may trade it all in next year and play something else, or simply never develop beyond where they are today and there are “A” kids today who may develop into a highly recruited kid in 4 years. None of us know what will happen. As I disclosed earlier, I am an Aviator parent, and proud to be one. We drive an extremely long distance, not to “chase a third A” but to be with an organization that we are happy with. A place we have fun. A place where our kid is happy and healthy. The organization is an extended family for us. We have relationships with families from just about every team in the organization. It’s those types of things that attract people to the organization, which is why it has grown so much in the past 3 years. At the end of the day, we as parents make huge commitments and sacrifices for our kids, shouldn’t it be fun for all of us? So I would say, don’t bash an organization you really don’t know anything about, or at least preface your statements with, “I really don’t know anything about the Aviators today, but……”. This is really a great organization to be part of. Great kids, great families, great coaches. Let’s Fly Boys!!!
    3 points
  5. I haven't coached in 10+ years, but have won plenty of league championships. And I'm sure the world hasn't changed that much and the players would much rather win it all, vs being given the opportunity to put up 9 points in a 15 goal win. Maybe develop someone other than your top 5 when games are in hand and it will pay off in those big games where depth comes into play.
    3 points
  6. The numbers are actually pretty even. Lets look at Pittsburgh VS Detroit. 16U and 150 Tier 1 specifically from this past season. Pittsburgh (Western PA): 1,483 registered players aged 15-16 11 total teams with approx 17 players on each (187 total) That's 12.6% of registered players on AAA teams Detroit (Michigan): 2,662 registered players aged 15-16 16 total teams with appox 17 players on each (272 total) That's 10.2% of registered players on AAA teams.
    3 points
  7. Take a look at the 14U (2009) this season. There were 8 teams in Mid-Am playing Tier 1 - 4 from Western PA (Pittsburgh), 2 from Ohio and 2 from Indiana. The two teams from Indiana did not qualify. Two Ohio teams are from Columbus and Cleveland, with home rinks separated by a 2-hour drive from each other and thus typically have their respective areas top players with little to no competition. Aside from PPE (which as pointed out on the board is generally the 1 or 1A team from the region), the other three teams were all from Pittsburgh (Predators, Vengeance and SHAHA) with home rinks all seperated by less than 50 miles (most 10-20 miles). Did these teams not deserve to be there? Should they have played and competed for Tier II? Looking at the rankings and final standings and such, if any of these teams would have dropped out and played for Tier II instead, they would certainly been playing for the Tier II National Championship next week, and would have been odds on favorite to be Tier II National Champions. So which is better? Being a top Tier I team and making districts with little to no chance of winning or being Tier II National Champions? If you surveyed all the players and parents on these teams, I would guess almost all would say they would rather be on a Tier I team and not win (as many probably somehow believe they can win). On the other hand, look at 16U (2007). There are now 12 teams competing for Tier I. Here you start getting competition from the Prep Schools - Culver and Gilmour, also Esmark which is also known to recruit from out of town for 16U and 18U, or otherwise get some PPE players when PPE does additional recruiting. But now you also add Icemen in locally. If you look at the six teams who did not qualify for Mid-Ams, locally you have Vengeance (89.51), Icemen (87.01), and Predators (86.22) - compared to the top Tier II local teams Armstrong (87.84), Steel City Renegades (competing for national championship) (86.84). Would these Tier I teams been better served playing Tier II and competing for the National Championship? What about getting to play local high school as well? Another factor everyone brings up is that it is about getting to and advancing to higher levels, particularly junior teams and college teams. A lot of the problem comes down to, and has already been addressed on this board, is that Tier II just doesn't get same level of recognition regardless of team strength, individual skill, etc.
    3 points
  8. This breakdown of US Junior seems correct. As far as having players go to Junior for a year or two following their HS graduation does make some sense. Hockey is what's considered a "late specialization" sport, which means that players don't reach their peak until mid 20's. This is compared to "early specialization" sports like figure skating and gymnastics (mid/late teens). It only makes sense that college coaches would be looking for players who are physically, mentally, and emotionally more mature than a 17 or 18 year old who is just coming out of high school and is probably living life on their own for the first time ever. With the players staying home and experiencing the "rites of passage" that is an individual player's decision. Historically, the registration numbers for USA Hockey tend to begin to slide around ages 14-16. The theory has usually been that players and their families are making the choice that the expense and time commitment is out weighed by the desire to do things like hangout with friends or significant others, have a job, party, etc. As long as organizations are up front with players and families about what the expectations are and what sacrifices may have to be made, I don't see a problem.
    3 points
  9. They did have a Head Coach wearing an ankle monitor this season. I think that proves your point
    3 points
  10. As someone posted earlier either here or on a different thread, it is not absolutely necessary to spend tons of money to play AAA. My son played on a high level nationally ranked AA team who went to Tier 2 Nationals consecutively and made the Pitt team without ever going the other expensive routes. I’m referencing the recent high level Pitt teams. And, he didn’t sacrifice his high school years billeting out of town and missing the rites of passage like homecoming and prom. No criticizing here—just saying it can be done considering a lot of kids end up being behind a few years from going different routes.
    3 points
  11. Really, "the ultimate consequence", actually that's incorrect. The lowest consequence for a spear is the call which was made, a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. The "ultimate consequence" escalates to a match penalty. Yes, "everyone in attendance was dumbfounded" might be correct because they were watching the play up ice as opposed to away from the puck. The rear official that made the call is 100% doing the job that he is out there for, which is to be especially vigilant for penalties which occur away from the play. Regardless of if the spear was "violent" or "soft", a spear is a spear.
    3 points
  12. You make a lot of really good points. I also think Pittsburgh is a great place to live for hockey (youth and professional). My issues are with the sport as a whole. There aren't enough NCAA hockey teams. Compare it to almost any other sport as mainstream as hockey. Spots are very very limited. That creates this terrible system where kids move away to pay to play juniors at 15-16 years old and don't start college til 22 or 23. The whole thing is broken and a$$-backwards. The amount of money, time and commitment are insane. I also understand other sports are getting there as well. It's still not the same though. Jimmy from South Park playing football for his varsity team can still get recruited to play NCAA football way easier than little johnny and his aaa hockey team. The whole thing has become a money making racket and a game where you are really just funding people above you in the food chain. My remaining boy has no shot at all at an NCAA scholarship for hockey. I'm guessing he will end up playing club hockey at a high level. He is half the baseball player he is a hockey player and based on recruiting to date will probably at least play division III baseball. I find that insane.
    3 points
  13. This whole thread seems like it abruptly turned into Western Pennsylvania Youth Hockey’s version of “Grumpy old Men.” Frankly, it reminds me of a multi-generational commiseration of the “back-in-my-day” old farts sipping coffee and telling stories about how they should have listened to their mom & dad and played baseball (or football); instead wasting their childhood years and dreams by playing hockey in Pittsburgh…since, ya know…’nobody from Pittsburgh ever gets noticed, scouted, or goes anywhere.’ I can still picture so many people saying, “Sorry kid, you should have been born further north if you wanna play hockey…yeah, you gotta be from Canada, New England, Michigan, or Minnesota if you want to ever go anywhere in this sport.” It’s weird how there’s never any mention about how quickly this region has progressed from next to nothing as a legitimate hockey region—when discussed by all of the blue-blood and traditional North American hockey markets (i.e. Boston/New England, Buffalo/Western NY, Detroit/Michigan, Minnesota, Toronto/Ontario, Montreal/Quebec, even Western Canada). It’s truly included in those circles now and accepted as such when considering the talent pool of hockey players that come out of Pittsburgh…only not on par with their overall numbers, of course. Put it another way, it appears that Pittsburgh is way past the emerging hockey market problems. You don’t ever hear stories about people complaining about 5:00 AM available ice slots; only having 3-4 ice rinks available within an hour drive; or having generations of parents that never skated or played hockey and having to resort to being self-taught… or receive marginal hockey knowledge and coaching from guys that were only qualified because they were born in Canada or Maine.
    3 points
  14. Be careful stating such a thing on this forum. Unless you have your kid play AA hockey within 15 minutes from your home until they head to college you are an irresponsible parent.
    3 points
  15. Are we sure that CV and PR actually won those games on Tuesday? It doesn't appear that the PIHL is certain. What's it take to upload some pictures? 8 minutes? Maybe 10. Each month it should become more and more apparent to all the haters what a great job John Mucha did as Commissioner. This sport could use more people with his passion AND his ability to work with just about everyone for the good of the game.
    3 points
  16. Would pay to see that game. Top 6 in D2 this year were pretty damn good. The kid from Burrell would of set records if he played all of the games. He also scored against the tougher teams in the division, not like some others. He was also a team player, when the game was in hand for Burrell, he focused on helping other kids try to score that didn't see much playing time during the season. True sportsmanship. And yes, I am a Burrell parent.
    2 points
  17. And to go a step further since you love he coach so much. He's a coach who can run it up against bad teams, but can't coach well enough to win tough games when it matters. "3 losses in 3 years", but zero championships
    2 points
  18. Where does D-2 get plenty of publicity? Has there ever been a D-2 player recognized in your Stellar 6? You didn't even include them in your rankings and Keith Barnes didn't include them in his previews or articles on the championship previews. Where is there any mention of D-2 in your history of PA high school hockey book? And didn't I say that was a wonderful list. Why don't you congratulate the player that led all of the PIHL in scoring? He can't make your Stellar 6? Whats the criteria for inclusion?
    2 points
  19. 2 points
  20. Tier I and Tier II are the only designations that USA Hockey recognizes. AAA, AA, etc. are skill levels typically applied by leagues to distinguish their different levels and groupings. Independent teams are outside of league designations and can say they are whatever they want. The problem is that people always use these terms interchangeably when technically they are not. Tier I does not automatically mean AAA and Tier II does not automatically mean AA, etc. These AAA/AA skill designations generally were a factor of age level, but were more about team depth. The AAA/AA skill designations only mean something when they are given by respective leagues and tournaments and used for separating team levels. You now of the "AAA-Elite" designations to separate the top AAA teams from everyone else. Tier I means that teams can and do recruit and billet players from all across the country/world to assemble the best possible team they can regardless of where the players come from. Tier II requires that players generally reside within 50 miles of the teams home rink (varies by region) with some exceptions. Tier II was generally just the top AA programs from the respective local leagues (PAHL) and used to be happy playing each other to be the best local team. Tier I was reserved for the best teams who typically played outside of the local area and basically were "independent" or played in "AAA" level leagues and competed with the best of other regions. They used to be better/higher than the top "AA" teams from the local leagues. Tier I and Tier II officially only applies to 14U teams and up (now 13U at Tier I) and only those teams officially competing for the respective Tier I or Tier II National Championship, although associations emerged as "Tier I Programs" and typically refer to all their teams as Tier I, while other programs try to field both Tier I and Tier II (and all other level) teams. My understanding was that USA hockey was cracking down on programs fielding only 1 or 2 "Tier 1" teams. You basically had to have a full Tier I (14U, 15O, 16U, 18U) program. This limits the teams actually eligible to compete - but this doesn't mean teams can't call themselves whatever they want, whether it means anything or not. Obviously it is always about money and teams can charge more and make more money the higher level they call themselves and try to compete - whether they are at that level or not. The thing about MyHockeyRankings is that it gives a rating and teams are ranked accordingly regardless of what they call themselves.
    2 points
  21. Aviators can't put together a good AA team let alone AAA. Since losing home ice, they struggled to put together any team. That's a good one. But they are trying something new. They have a home ice now? Who knows, roll of the dice. Some of these programs end up occasionally having some success, but it's a flash in the pan success. Usually it's a highly invested dad coach who heavily recruits and makes one good team. Then that kid ages out or moves on and the team falls apart. Vengeance is pretty much all new now. People who started it are gone. Who knows. You kind of have to be connected to that crew of talent to know where to go It's hard to recommend AA anymore. Most AAA is basically AA now. If I had a young player, I would not even know where to have them play these days. Coaching. At this point the best advice is to get good coaching. Fits into your schedule. Easy rink to get to. You can afford it. Good non drama to families.
    2 points
  22. While that is a wonderful list it is very sad that Keith Barnes does not recognize the co-op players! Ryan Saginaw and Gio Valentine were as good if not better than the Stellar 6! It's not their fault that they play for teams that need to combine schools to form a team. I would say that what they accomplished in some ways was tougher than what the Stellar 6 accomplished! Anyone ever ask Barnes why he doesn't even consider D-2!
    2 points
  23. $4k tuition for a PAHL team….yikes
    2 points
  24. 2 points
  25. I'll just say I hope you are right but that's not what I'm seeing the trend being anywhere.
    2 points
  26. This dude will never register to be an official, but he will stand outside the glass criticizing everything that he doesn't agree with. While the spear was "soft," it is still a spear, and thus, 5/game is correct call.
    2 points
  27. https://www.usahockey.com/officiatingprogramregistration
    2 points
  28. It's absolutely crazy. And I'm going to speak my own opinion here but it hurts the sport from top to bottom. Ever wonder why after pick 5 or so of the NHL draft it's a total crapshoot?
    2 points
  29. Just because you know him and he is a "good kid" doesn't preclude him from taking an unwise penalty. Are you implying that this official is not experienced? How do you know? Granted, for a critical call such as this, I would have consulted with my partner for sure; however, if an official sees a penalty, no matter where he or she is on the ice, he or she needs to make the call. Again, you are implying that since he was the back official that he could not effectively make this call, which is not a logical statement at all. The point being that this player committed a spearing penalty in a big game; the rules are clear. There is not a different rulebook when playoffs come around; the key is for the officials to effectively communicate with everyone. But again, it was the player who committed the penalty; he only has himself to blame.
    2 points
  30. This was a big call at a big moment in a Championship game when the game was still close. I am surprised the refs made the call. However, it was clearly a spearing motion and the penalty for spearing is a 5 minute major and game misconduct. The problem with the rules is that it was such a weak contact and the other player didn't even flinch or react further to it and can't even tell if the TJ player actually made contact. So perhaps the "intent to injure" could be argued. The TJ player could have cross checked him back, slashed his leg, started a bit of a scrum or many other more severe retaliation options and still got away with a lot less penalty time and be able to play the rest of the game. Hopefully this is a good learning opportunity and a good teaching example for other coaches to discuss with their players in the future. I know I will include in future video sessions with my players as we discuss these topics.
    2 points
  31. Looked like an attempted spear to the groin… meets the criteria in the rulebook so there isn’t really an argument
    2 points
  32. Not to completely derail this thread, but the Preds are a joke. You mentioned you “spoke to the coaching staff”. That’s great. They will tell you anything you want to hear to get your tryout money and if your kid sucks up to them enough, or your wife is hot and flirtatious, your kid will make the team. However, he won’t see any playing minutes unless you are ponying up and taking weekly private or small group lessons with the coach. Thats a fact. DM me for more info. I know these guys personally and have for many years. Nothing ever changes. Ask some of the 08-12’s who have left because of those exact reasons. They over promise, under deliver, and over charge you.
    2 points
  33. He was impressed with the extra "A"
    2 points
  34. D-2 is impure teams with multiple High Schools and was originally supposed to develop into pure and never did. Schools in AAA, AA and A work very hard to earn an opportunity to play for a State Championship and are rewarded for their efforts. TJ beat Greensburg Salem 8-0 in the PAHSS and both had all their players and was a good experience because Salem rebounded and committed themselves and almost pulled off a Penguins Cup this year. Canevin sent half their players to play Latrobe ? Why? Look at what Avonworth is doing and South Park is doing with MS and Developmental and they should be applauded
    1 point
  35. Got to agree with you 100% I would love to see the top 6 in D-2 play the Stellar 6. Congratulations Burrell on a great season! A bad call away from a chance at the championship. One of the best championship games. I will say that D-2 might come up a little short in the goalie area.
    1 point
  36. I thought that was already the case? All the As, divisions, etc are what the local areas do to help organize competitive divisions.
    1 point
  37. I assume no one speared anyone.
    1 point
  38. 1 point
  39. I don't want to make a case for the D2 kids because I haven't seen them in person, but it appears the Stellar 6 Player from the A Blue division also got nearly half of his points against some really awful bottom 5 teams. And quite honestly the other half of his points came against the playoff teams in that blue division. And if the playoffs showed us anything it's that other that CV, the rest of that division was also pretty bad. Is he a good player? Maybe. But he probably only gets a fraction of those stats if he played against the likes of QV, Shaler, Indiana, GB, Meadville, NC all season. Not taking anything away from the young man, he led the team to the Pens Cup, Undefeated Season, Freshman and all that, but it's the same situation.
    1 point
  40. It actually kind of makes you question the BC coach. At some point you have to have a little bit of an understanding how wide spread the level of ability at the D2 level is. Do you really need to have your top line racking up points late in the 3rd when you are already up by 13?
    1 point
  41. LOL I never told you what to do now did I? I stated what I WOULD DO. And I also said "to each his own." Make your own decision - I don't really care what you do. Preds and Icemen AAA coaches are always looking for that diamond in the rough, maybe your player fits the bill.
    1 point
  42. Yes, he is the general manager, head of player development and director of hockey operations 😃. Can't wait to see when 1 of the special needs kids makes him mad, then again he will probably have Livebarn turned off like he usually does.
    1 point
  43. 10U! Hello all, we have open slots available for Pittsburgh Huskies 10U players! I can be reached either on the forum page or by email. Richardp132@gmail.com 10U mixed year with multiple player slots available.
    1 point
  44. So the responsibility is on the officials and not the player.... got it. Here's the link, hope to see you out there soon: https://www.usahockey.com/officiatingprogramregistration
    1 point
  45. Yes, you’re exactly right…hockey is an entirely different animal. And it has only snowballed into this gigantic enigma that has (I’m guessing) mirrored Canadian U-Sports in terms of taking seasoned 20- year old Junior A players; instead of immediately recruiting 18-year old high school players. Even in this area, a lot the current ACHA schools have evolved from an “idea” of starting a program, to assembling a coaching staff and players in terms of without any recruiting or prior student athlete player knowledge. They would simply form a club team. Then roll the dice on finding already enrolled students that could pose as functional players that can skate and shoot. I remember when Pitt, and even Liberty University basically launched their programs from the ground up. Now, in order to seriously be considered as a player on a top 25 program, you have to pretty much play Junior A; or at least AAA and sit out a year or so. I was talking to an ACHA coach that was at the Pennsylvania Cup trilogy of games 2 years ago in Philadelphia. I remember asking him if he was scouting or actively talking to any players in the games. Surprisingly to me, he said no. He was there as a fan and to support a relative that was playing. He said that very same thing about only scouting Jr A players anymore. I didn’t realize how fast the competition and arms race that this sport has morphed into. It’s crazy to me.
    1 point
  46. My apologies, I copied from you instead of the disgruntled TJ parent who now realizes that they'll also be moving to AAA next season.
    1 point
  47. CV loses 4-2. TJ scores 30 seconds and then again 5 minutes in. Pennridge goalie looked suspect on goal #2
    1 point
  48. Come on man. You know their work stops once your check clears.
    1 point
  49. Read between the lines people. Jaison Kelly has to be the worst human that resides in Pittsburgh. He’s a con artist and a flat out loser . A fuckup. Until his hands are still on this River Monsters, I’m staying away. Praying he goes to jail on his arraignment that’s in April for fraud.
    1 point
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