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  1. One would suspect that the AAA Champion would disagree quite strongly?
    5 points
  2. The back referee is the exact person to make that call. That is why they are there. There is no way the low official could have seen the spear through the crowd. Again, doesn't matter what the intent was. USA Hockey is very clear on it. Any spearing motion is 5+GM at a minimum. Not exactly sure who that official was, but I am familiar with the process for assigning those officials. They are all very experienced.
    4 points
  3. The numbers are actually pretty even. Lets look at Pittsburgh VS Detroit. 16U and 150 Tier 1 specifically from this past season. Pittsburgh (Western PA): 1,483 registered players aged 15-16 11 total teams with approx 17 players on each (187 total) That's 12.6% of registered players on AAA teams Detroit (Michigan): 2,662 registered players aged 15-16 16 total teams with appox 17 players on each (272 total) That's 10.2% of registered players on AAA teams.
    3 points
  4. Some may say the life experiences of living with a host family in a new city, and traveling the US and Canada while developing relationships with that family, coaches, and players all while pushing oneself to succeed at the highest level of their sport might be more beneficial than attending a dance at the Burgettstown Days Inn.
    3 points
  5. They did have a Head Coach wearing an ankle monitor this season. I think that proves your point
    3 points
  6. As someone posted earlier either here or on a different thread, it is not absolutely necessary to spend tons of money to play AAA. My son played on a high level nationally ranked AA team who went to Tier 2 Nationals consecutively and made the Pitt team without ever going the other expensive routes. I’m referencing the recent high level Pitt teams. And, he didn’t sacrifice his high school years billeting out of town and missing the rites of passage like homecoming and prom. No criticizing here—just saying it can be done considering a lot of kids end up being behind a few years from going different routes.
    3 points
  7. Really, "the ultimate consequence", actually that's incorrect. The lowest consequence for a spear is the call which was made, a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. The "ultimate consequence" escalates to a match penalty. Yes, "everyone in attendance was dumbfounded" might be correct because they were watching the play up ice as opposed to away from the puck. The rear official that made the call is 100% doing the job that he is out there for, which is to be especially vigilant for penalties which occur away from the play. Regardless of if the spear was "violent" or "soft", a spear is a spear.
    3 points
  8. You make a lot of really good points. I also think Pittsburgh is a great place to live for hockey (youth and professional). My issues are with the sport as a whole. There aren't enough NCAA hockey teams. Compare it to almost any other sport as mainstream as hockey. Spots are very very limited. That creates this terrible system where kids move away to pay to play juniors at 15-16 years old and don't start college til 22 or 23. The whole thing is broken and a$$-backwards. The amount of money, time and commitment are insane. I also understand other sports are getting there as well. It's still not the same though. Jimmy from South Park playing football for his varsity team can still get recruited to play NCAA football way easier than little johnny and his aaa hockey team. The whole thing has become a money making racket and a game where you are really just funding people above you in the food chain. My remaining boy has no shot at all at an NCAA scholarship for hockey. I'm guessing he will end up playing club hockey at a high level. He is half the baseball player he is a hockey player and based on recruiting to date will probably at least play division III baseball. I find that insane.
    3 points
  9. Be careful stating such a thing on this forum. Unless you have your kid play AA hockey within 15 minutes from your home until they head to college you are an irresponsible parent.
    3 points
  10. Are we sure that CV and PR actually won those games on Tuesday? It doesn't appear that the PIHL is certain. What's it take to upload some pictures? 8 minutes? Maybe 10. Each month it should become more and more apparent to all the haters what a great job John Mucha did as Commissioner. This sport could use more people with his passion AND his ability to work with just about everyone for the good of the game.
    3 points
  11. I know two kids that played both amateur and high school, didn’t stop them from going D1. Only missed one or two high school games because of amateur travel. For a coach to deny a kid an opportunity to play a game they love with friends is absolutely atrocious. Deal with any conflicts as they come up and playing for both teams is not an issue. The EGO of these coaches that say you can’t play both is the problem. A high school coach suggesting a kid not play for that kind of coach is not a problem. Missing an amateur practice occasionally for a high school game should not be a problem. The kids are on the ice. They are not going to a movie. The coaches that think missing a couple practices for other ice time need to move on to another career. Go coach adults, kids are kids and should be treated as such. Because no matter how good of a coach you are, a couple missed practices are NOT going to change the trajectory of a player or hurt their amateur team.
    3 points
  12. If my kid wanted to play high school hockey and club, and the club told him he couldn't play HS then I would move on and move fast. Granted, HS hockey is not at the level of some AA and AAA level club teams, but kids love playing in front of their school friends. I have watched numerous Pens Cup games this year and the vibe has been nothing but outstanding. The Preds AAA level teams are a joke anyhow - did any of them make MidAms?
    3 points
  13. Reopen the Golden Mile
    3 points
  14. I feel like it should be the other way around. Any responsible HS coach should advise his players to avoid that train wreck A chase.
    3 points
  15. Take a look at the 14U (2009) this season. There were 8 teams in Mid-Am playing Tier 1 - 4 from Western PA (Pittsburgh), 2 from Ohio and 2 from Indiana. The two teams from Indiana did not qualify. Two Ohio teams are from Columbus and Cleveland, with home rinks separated by a 2-hour drive from each other and thus typically have their respective areas top players with little to no competition. Aside from PPE (which as pointed out on the board is generally the 1 or 1A team from the region), the other three teams were all from Pittsburgh (Predators, Vengeance and SHAHA) with home rinks all seperated by less than 50 miles (most 10-20 miles). Did these teams not deserve to be there? Should they have played and competed for Tier II? Looking at the rankings and final standings and such, if any of these teams would have dropped out and played for Tier II instead, they would certainly been playing for the Tier II National Championship next week, and would have been odds on favorite to be Tier II National Champions. So which is better? Being a top Tier I team and making districts with little to no chance of winning or being Tier II National Champions? If you surveyed all the players and parents on these teams, I would guess almost all would say they would rather be on a Tier I team and not win (as many probably somehow believe they can win). On the other hand, look at 16U (2007). There are now 12 teams competing for Tier I. Here you start getting competition from the Prep Schools - Culver and Gilmour, also Esmark which is also known to recruit from out of town for 16U and 18U, or otherwise get some PPE players when PPE does additional recruiting. But now you also add Icemen in locally. If you look at the six teams who did not qualify for Mid-Ams, locally you have Vengeance (89.51), Icemen (87.01), and Predators (86.22) - compared to the top Tier II local teams Armstrong (87.84), Steel City Renegades (competing for national championship) (86.84). Would these Tier I teams been better served playing Tier II and competing for the National Championship? What about getting to play local high school as well? Another factor everyone brings up is that it is about getting to and advancing to higher levels, particularly junior teams and college teams. A lot of the problem comes down to, and has already been addressed on this board, is that Tier II just doesn't get same level of recognition regardless of team strength, individual skill, etc.
    2 points
  16. Tier I and Tier II are the only designations that USA Hockey recognizes. AAA, AA, etc. are skill levels typically applied by leagues to distinguish their different levels and groupings. Independent teams are outside of league designations and can say they are whatever they want. The problem is that people always use these terms interchangeably when technically they are not. Tier I does not automatically mean AAA and Tier II does not automatically mean AA, etc. These AAA/AA skill designations generally were a factor of age level, but were more about team depth. The AAA/AA skill designations only mean something when they are given by respective leagues and tournaments and used for separating team levels. You now of the "AAA-Elite" designations to separate the top AAA teams from everyone else. Tier I means that teams can and do recruit and billet players from all across the country/world to assemble the best possible team they can regardless of where the players come from. Tier II requires that players generally reside within 50 miles of the teams home rink (varies by region) with some exceptions. Tier II was generally just the top AA programs from the respective local leagues (PAHL) and used to be happy playing each other to be the best local team. Tier I was reserved for the best teams who typically played outside of the local area and basically were "independent" or played in "AAA" level leagues and competed with the best of other regions. They used to be better/higher than the top "AA" teams from the local leagues. Tier I and Tier II officially only applies to 14U teams and up (now 13U at Tier I) and only those teams officially competing for the respective Tier I or Tier II National Championship, although associations emerged as "Tier I Programs" and typically refer to all their teams as Tier I, while other programs try to field both Tier I and Tier II (and all other level) teams. My understanding was that USA hockey was cracking down on programs fielding only 1 or 2 "Tier 1" teams. You basically had to have a full Tier I (14U, 15O, 16U, 18U) program. This limits the teams actually eligible to compete - but this doesn't mean teams can't call themselves whatever they want, whether it means anything or not. Obviously it is always about money and teams can charge more and make more money the higher level they call themselves and try to compete - whether they are at that level or not. The thing about MyHockeyRankings is that it gives a rating and teams are ranked accordingly regardless of what they call themselves.
    2 points
  17. This breakdown of US Junior seems correct. As far as having players go to Junior for a year or two following their HS graduation does make some sense. Hockey is what's considered a "late specialization" sport, which means that players don't reach their peak until mid 20's. This is compared to "early specialization" sports like figure skating and gymnastics (mid/late teens). It only makes sense that college coaches would be looking for players who are physically, mentally, and emotionally more mature than a 17 or 18 year old who is just coming out of high school and is probably living life on their own for the first time ever. With the players staying home and experiencing the "rites of passage" that is an individual player's decision. Historically, the registration numbers for USA Hockey tend to begin to slide around ages 14-16. The theory has usually been that players and their families are making the choice that the expense and time commitment is out weighed by the desire to do things like hangout with friends or significant others, have a job, party, etc. As long as organizations are up front with players and families about what the expectations are and what sacrifices may have to be made, I don't see a problem.
    2 points
  18. Aviators can't put together a good AA team let alone AAA. Since losing home ice, they struggled to put together any team. That's a good one. But they are trying something new. They have a home ice now? Who knows, roll of the dice. Some of these programs end up occasionally having some success, but it's a flash in the pan success. Usually it's a highly invested dad coach who heavily recruits and makes one good team. Then that kid ages out or moves on and the team falls apart. Vengeance is pretty much all new now. People who started it are gone. Who knows. You kind of have to be connected to that crew of talent to know where to go It's hard to recommend AA anymore. Most AAA is basically AA now. If I had a young player, I would not even know where to have them play these days. Coaching. At this point the best advice is to get good coaching. Fits into your schedule. Easy rink to get to. You can afford it. Good non drama to families.
    2 points
  19. $4k tuition for a PAHL team….yikes
    2 points
  20. This dude will never register to be an official, but he will stand outside the glass criticizing everything that he doesn't agree with. While the spear was "soft," it is still a spear, and thus, 5/game is correct call.
    2 points
  21. https://www.usahockey.com/officiatingprogramregistration
    2 points
  22. It's absolutely crazy. And I'm going to speak my own opinion here but it hurts the sport from top to bottom. Ever wonder why after pick 5 or so of the NHL draft it's a total crapshoot?
    2 points
  23. This whole thread seems like it abruptly turned into Western Pennsylvania Youth Hockey’s version of “Grumpy old Men.” Frankly, it reminds me of a multi-generational commiseration of the “back-in-my-day” old farts sipping coffee and telling stories about how they should have listened to their mom & dad and played baseball (or football); instead wasting their childhood years and dreams by playing hockey in Pittsburgh…since, ya know…’nobody from Pittsburgh ever gets noticed, scouted, or goes anywhere.’ I can still picture so many people saying, “Sorry kid, you should have been born further north if you wanna play hockey…yeah, you gotta be from Canada, New England, Michigan, or Minnesota if you want to ever go anywhere in this sport.” It’s weird how there’s never any mention about how quickly this region has progressed from next to nothing as a legitimate hockey region—when discussed by all of the blue-blood and traditional North American hockey markets (i.e. Boston/New England, Buffalo/Western NY, Detroit/Michigan, Minnesota, Toronto/Ontario, Montreal/Quebec, even Western Canada). It’s truly included in those circles now and accepted as such when considering the talent pool of hockey players that come out of Pittsburgh…only not on par with their overall numbers, of course. Put it another way, it appears that Pittsburgh is way past the emerging hockey market problems. You don’t ever hear stories about people complaining about 5:00 AM available ice slots; only having 3-4 ice rinks available within an hour drive; or having generations of parents that never skated or played hockey and having to resort to being self-taught… or receive marginal hockey knowledge and coaching from guys that were only qualified because they were born in Canada or Maine.
    2 points
  24. Just because you know him and he is a "good kid" doesn't preclude him from taking an unwise penalty. Are you implying that this official is not experienced? How do you know? Granted, for a critical call such as this, I would have consulted with my partner for sure; however, if an official sees a penalty, no matter where he or she is on the ice, he or she needs to make the call. Again, you are implying that since he was the back official that he could not effectively make this call, which is not a logical statement at all. The point being that this player committed a spearing penalty in a big game; the rules are clear. There is not a different rulebook when playoffs come around; the key is for the officials to effectively communicate with everyone. But again, it was the player who committed the penalty; he only has himself to blame.
    2 points
  25. This was a big call at a big moment in a Championship game when the game was still close. I am surprised the refs made the call. However, it was clearly a spearing motion and the penalty for spearing is a 5 minute major and game misconduct. The problem with the rules is that it was such a weak contact and the other player didn't even flinch or react further to it and can't even tell if the TJ player actually made contact. So perhaps the "intent to injure" could be argued. The TJ player could have cross checked him back, slashed his leg, started a bit of a scrum or many other more severe retaliation options and still got away with a lot less penalty time and be able to play the rest of the game. Hopefully this is a good learning opportunity and a good teaching example for other coaches to discuss with their players in the future. I know I will include in future video sessions with my players as we discuss these topics.
    2 points
  26. Looked like an attempted spear to the groin… meets the criteria in the rulebook so there isn’t really an argument
    2 points
  27. If 2-4 players from every aaa team in pittsburgh except Pens elite (any birthyear) play free to play juniors or division 3 or 1 hockey I will salt my hat and eat it. Doesn't happen these days. If we are talking pay to play juniors whatever. I'd be absolutely shocked if it wasn't a couple pens elite, maybe 1-2 Esmark and 1-2 other kids across all the other programs.
    2 points
  28. Well if new kids don’t get a fair shake and they keep hanging on to kids from squirt until now then why would most even consider going there? You’re either there to place kids appropriately or run a good ole boys club. Can’t do both. It seems the latter will take priority in some places.
    2 points
  29. The problem with that is the level of play on travel hockey teams is higher than local HS, especially when you move away from the higher PIHL divisions. Also, if the player has any kind of goal of playing at a higher level, junior and college coaches are not sending their people to watch a PIHL game on a Thursday night, but will have people in Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland, or Pittsburgh for a weekend to watch "AAA" tournament games. I understand the desire to play with and in front of your friends from school, but the decision should be based on what an individual player's future goals are.
    2 points
  30. He was impressed with the extra "A"
    2 points
  31. It actually kind of makes you question the BC coach. At some point you have to have a little bit of an understanding how wide spread the level of ability at the D2 level is. Do you really need to have your top line racking up points late in the 3rd when you are already up by 13?
    1 point
  32. 1 point
  33. Yes, he is the general manager, head of player development and director of hockey operations 😃. Can't wait to see when 1 of the special needs kids makes him mad, then again he will probably have Livebarn turned off like he usually does.
    1 point
  34. 10U! Hello all, we have open slots available for Pittsburgh Huskies 10U players! I can be reached either on the forum page or by email. Richardp132@gmail.com 10U mixed year with multiple player slots available.
    1 point
  35. Preds parents from the U18 AAA 105th ranked Tier 1 team and Icemen parents from the U18AAA 120th ranked team might respond with "hold my beer." Both teams were out of MidAms consideration by December. No way in hell would I pay for the extra A just to say my kid played AAA on a horrible team with no shot at playing in MidAms and would rather have a realistic chance of going to MidAms and Natty's on a top AA team. Hell, the Preds AA U18 team was ranked higher than their U18 AAA team.
    1 point
  36. It is typically based on ice time and the amount of tournaments the team plays. Typically a PAHL team plays in four tournaments - two home and two away but could be more. Add the amount of practice ice slots and 20 PAHL games along with any independent games scheduled. Then do the math. If a PAHL team is playing 55+ games plus 1-2 practice slots a week it is not unreasonable for a $3,500-4K spend. Also look to see if the practice slots are shared or full ice.
    1 point
  37. Each birth year is slightly different depending on who is coaching and which organization the strongest players gravitate toward. I'm assuming you are asking about the younger ages based on your question. Generally speaking Pens Elite is always going to field the strongest team in the area. You can look at all the birth years for the last number of years at My Hockey Ratings.com and see they are typically in the top 12 teams in the country. Historically Esmark was their closest rival, and they take most of the Pens cast offs and add some foreigners. They are typically strong only at 16u and 18u. They only started having younger teams a couple years ago, one of them was ridiculously bad last season. A couple years ago Vengeance put together a successful 2008 team that was equal to Pens for a few years, but since then fell apart and most of their best players went to pens or left town. They never really got traction on any other birth year besides that one. Any of the other "AAA" teams your results will vary. This is the first I heard the Aviators fielding a "AAA" team. A couple years ago their organization consistent of like 2 A minor teams and didn't have home ice anywhere. So better watch out, You are definitely playing the role of guinea pig on that one. My suggestion for any team you are considering, find out who the coach is, find out what their reputation is and how long they've been coaching. Look up how successful they were last year. If they have an open skate or a tune-up go to that. If your kid is the best kid there, go somewhere else. If your kid is the worst one there play single A Pahl hockey.
    1 point
  38. While that is a wonderful list it is very sad that Keith Barnes does not recognize the co-op players! Ryan Saginaw and Gio Valentine were as good if not better than the Stellar 6! It's not their fault that they play for teams that need to combine schools to form a team. I would say that what they accomplished in some ways was tougher than what the Stellar 6 accomplished! Anyone ever ask Barnes why he doesn't even consider D-2!
    1 point
  39. They had 1 team that was really good for 2yrs and then the whole team blew up. They are average and fall in line with the other AAA teams. Supposedly their prices are going up this season after taking over another organization and kicking everyone else out of their arena. For your kid depending on what you expect the best would be to go to your closest rink and work your way out as you get feel for said organization.
    1 point
  40. 08, The guy runs the entire arena and is coaching the 2012's this year.
    1 point
  41. In my opinion (isn't worth much) there are good players on almost all AAA teams. Just not enough of them. Once again most folks here will tell you that if your team isn't ranked in the top 25 of Tier 1 it's a Faux AAA team. I didn't know that the Aviators were trying to put together a AAA team. What age group? I'm guessing they had a good AA team they think can move up! Most likely they will end up in the bottom of AAA!
    1 point
  42. And according to most folks here they are the only ones that are true AAA! Everybody else (which is almost every organization) is just a money grab and a Faux AAA team!
    1 point
  43. 1 point
  44. 1 point
  45. This is what creates such confusion with fans, parents, and newer officals for that matter. There is a black and while rule book with clearly defined actions and options for penalties. However, there is "spirit & intent" of the rule that officials learn as they develop to higher levels. Officials who apply this "grey area" aka "game management" effectivly are able to move on to upper levels and probably the ones most want on their games. Unfortuantely, when it comes to playoff time, some of the early developing officals try to make a name for themselves or overthink calls. This is why you sometimes see off the wall penalties called in playoff rounds as opposed to the regular season. Also, USAH High-School Nationals were last weekend at Ice-Line in West-Chester. I suspect the officials working the games were in this mindset with national supervisors in the area. With possible national supervisors in the building, the ref may have made the call to show they have the "courage" to make that call in a big game...or out of "fear" that if they didn't make the call or call a lesser penalty, they may lose an opportunity to move on to a higher level. Again, the player opened the door and put the refs in the position to make a grey area call that 1/2 the people will always say was right and 1/2 will say was wrong no matter what reasoning is provided. By rule was it a "spear" ? - Yes. Did the action fall under "spirit & intent" of the rule? - No. Many times officials call half ass spears and "cup-checks" as slashing during the regular season, why change in the playoffs/championship? Could the ref have called slashing on this play (possible additional 10 min misconduct dependiing on how the game was going at that point), with high level coaches on each bench, in a close state championship game, knowing that GM's and Match penalties carry over to the teams after the player ages out, and nobody including supervisors would have been any the wiser? Probably, but they didn't, they went with 5+G (though I was told the call was a Match)
    1 point
  46. Playing Jr A to progress to ACHA is a ton of money and delay in schooling to me. And....your student may decide that school and hockey is too much. College is a whole different ball of wax than high school .How long do you want to be away from the academic setting before returning? Maybe you can afford it. Maybe your kid could use a year or so to mature a bit. But to have this become the path to play in college just sucks.
    1 point
  47. One can almost say the only pathway to the NHL is through playing AA hockey and for your local High School team. Play AAA if you want to burn cash.
    1 point
  48. If I was a TJ parent/fan/coach/player (which I’m not), I’d be disgruntled about the game misconduct call given to their leading scorer half way through the game. Refs called it spearing and gave 5 and game for what looked like a love tap after being crosschecked. Would be interesting to know where the ref is from.
    1 point
  49. My apologies, I copied from you instead of the disgruntled TJ parent who now realizes that they'll also be moving to AAA next season.
    1 point
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