forbin

SO true. Also one of the reasons more and more parents are going to the paid coaches "AAA" model, because at least then you know the people coaching your kid have hockey experience. I have mentioned before that my '09 sons first year squirt coach had never played hockey in his life and literally could not even skate or stand up in skates. Great guy, terrible hockey coach.

It absolutely is. I'd venture to guess that the only real places where its more development driven would be Minnesota or Canada, simply for the fact that they have WAY more access to ice and way more people involved. I have seen some newer groups popping up to help assist families financially to get into the sport and I fully support that mentality, while also recognizing that hockey is a sport that requires a considerable amount of resources to be played properly.

No that's not what I am saying in the slightest. My kid wants to play the highest level hockey he can. He wants to be on the ice every single day. And I do and will continue to do whatever I can to facilitate that as long as my paychecks don't bounce. I make a comfortable living that I am lucky enough to afford for all my kids to pursue their passion. Some people on this board have a different mindset and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not gonna tell anyone how to spend their money. What I am saying is that these arguments over what is consider a legitimate AAA program are stupid because in the end who really cares? Johnny who played at PPE and Billy who played at Preds are most likely gonna be playing in the same A level beer league down the road.

Exactly why at the end of the day none of this really even matters. I doubt there is a parent on this board who has a kid playing right now that will end up playing professional hockey. We are all just a bunch of grumpy dads arguing with strangers on the internet about a fake extra A.

Why does PPE have to be the only game in town? Because they have a fancy arena and the Penguins logo on their chest? And inherited an already good system in the Hornets and then turned their back on the values of that organization by bringing in players from across the country to take the spots of local kids? Then refusing to play other AAA teams because they are to proud to admit they might lose? PAHL needs to offer an outlet for the kids that want more ice time and more games. Right now that outlet is independent “faux AAA” teams. If the PAHL had a AAA or, f*ck it even call it AA+ or AA Hybrid for all I care, division would it legitimatize these faux AAA teams for everyone?

Michigan has 10 AAA organizations (MAHA T1) with one team per birth year and only has 4 players on the U17 national development team. Is Pittsburgh a small hockey market? Absolutely. But with the right model it could be right there with other states. Instead we all scoff at the "non legit "AAA teams. If there was a legitimate Western PA AAA league with say 6 organizations each fielding 1 team per birth year the competition would be intense and the bragging rights would be on the table every year. It would also offer more opportunity for scouting and exposure in my opinion. Much like MAHA does.

100% agree with this. There is a clear difference between hockey parents and parents whose kid happens to play hockey. In my opinion growing the game and developing players are two different conversations. Growing the game to me means the little pens program and other inexpensive opportunities for kids to start playing and hopefully fall in love with it. It means opening the door to kids who would have never even thought of trying it in the first place. Developing players to me requires the players drive to want to get better and availability of ice time which is severely lacking in most PAHL organizations. You can't expect a kid to develop with a single 50 minute practice a week. Exactly why those kids often do additional training or play for multiple teams. I stand by the fact that there are 100-150 kids at each age level who are skilled and have the desire to play a competitive AAA style schedule, and really no reason why they should be pushed back to PAHL teams simply because the extra A isn't "legit". Maybe if PAHL played more games per season or offered more ice time more parents wouldn't feel the need to look elsewhere.

I agree with some of this, however to play devil's advocate here: Why should I care about the development of other kids if their parents don't care about the development of mine?

I was not aware of this, I have a talented 2013 hockey addicted kid who after watching a 2011 Vengeance game last season is dead set on playing for them. So this thread has been great for me as well. How would one go about getting a foot in the door there? We don't play for SCIR either and I am assuming they use them as a "feeder" system so to speak?

I'm not involved with the organization but I venture to guess the total season fees for their squirt teams are around $4k, plus the cost of uniforms/gloves/helmet/travel/tournaments etc. What's the travel like for your current team? Because keep in mind teams like the Vengeance and pens elite travel to places like Ohio, New York, Michigan, sometimes Canada to play as those teams are in independent leagues. FWIW, the Pittsburgh area has the PAHL which is a more localized travel hockey league with teams ranging from AA to B level. Again, I have no idea if our AA teams would be comparable to your current team but it may be worth looking into if you don't want the travel commitment. Alpha ice complex (where the Vengeance play) is home to the Steel City Ice Renegades in the PAHL. Also, if you wanted to go the pens elite route getting from Oakmont to Cranberry via the turnpike isn't too bad. Probably around 35 minutes or so at rush hour.

His first post that was changed to nonsense was about how the 2011 IC hockey team and Vengeance teams had no business being in the super series tournament this past weekend and that the "yellow helmets couldn't connect passes". So my guess is his kid was cut from the preds team OR his kid plays for them and isnt seeing much ice time because hes the type of dad that likes to stir the pot.

I have zero affiliation with the predators for many reasons, shadiness and favoritism being one of them. It was smart of you to edit your post as calling people out directly by name is frowned upon here. That’s all I was saying.

What’s the over/under on how long this post stays up?

Agree with this to an extent. It has to stop somewhere though. Talking 14-18 age group I personally think that 6-8 teams per birth year (including PPE) in the Pittsburgh area is a fair number of AAA teams. That's <150 kids per birth year. I really see no problem with that. I know others here turn their nose up to it, but If it what players and parents want then its going to happen.

Not sure why you’re arguing with yourself.... but I’d be willing to bet that he lives in one of the newer $400k townhomes that are popping up all over the place up there. Which would make total sense.

Most PAHL teams have at least two practices a week right? And from my experience most of them basically run the same practice format for both nights. Why not make one dedicated to skills and one dedicated to hockey IQ stuff? It would be totally doable. Even if multiple 12u teams are sharing the ice, they could work on full ice game systems together. Then throw in an after practice 30-45 minute video session. Instead they put so much emphasis on individual skills and seem to forget it’s a team sport. Just my .02 and because it’s so dependent on the coaching it’s a complete gamble as to what you’re getting.

This is one example of maybe why its different (better?) in other areas: My friend in MN has kids who play high level. His youngest is a squirt minor A at a large "powerhouse" organization and I guess would be comparable to the level of PPE/Vengeance at that age even though the skill level is much higher. They have three ice slots a week. One is a skills practice and power skating where they incorporate the PEP system. The other two practices are team drills. They run systems, they run passing plays, they go over powerplays and penalty kills. They breakdown game film and show the kids what they did well and what they can improve on. They teach hockey IQ. There really isn't any reason why the local WPA organizations cant adopt that mentality even at the PAHL level.

I personally think alot of peoples gripe with PPE bringing in outside talent is that when the program was first introduced its MAIN selling point was to offer an avenue to develop local talent at the highest level possible. We are all coming to find out (or have known for years) that it was crock of sh!t. This program was started to give certain executives children a place to play and has since morphed into a tax shelter for the NHL team. The more national championships they win, the more ad revenue they can bring in, the more money they can line their pockets with. Hell, the freaking OFFICIAL team name is the Dick's Sporting Goods Pittsburgh Penguins Elite. When the coaches are pulling in six figure salaries you know its no longer about the development of local players. They are being paid to win at all costs. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's the bold truth. There is absolutely no reason why Pittsburgh can't have another avenue for talented hockey players.

This is not my opinion, but I'm willing to bet the response will be "play PAHL AA".

I both love and hate the “play where you live”model. It does already pretty much happen at the PAHL level anyway. Most Foxes kids live in Moon area, most NP kids are from Cranberry area. Where it gets wishy washy is in the south hills. Preds, Lebo , shaha, southpointe all seem to cross with each other. I like the idea because kids get to play with their classmates and most likely play with each other the whole way up from mites to midgets, BUT I personally live less than 10 minutes from one organizations rink and drive the 30 minutes to my kids team rink for the simple fact that it offers more of what we want. I think the locations of the rinks in the area naturally segregate the players enough. You don’t see many kids who live in Plum playing for Southpointe simply because of logistics. At the AAA level the only way it would make sense to segregate is if there was one organization in each of the locations surrounding the city. North(PPE), South(Preds), East(Esmark), West(?). The problem with that idea is demographically it would struggle to field strong teams at each location. It only works perfectly in MN because everyone plays hockey. Every small town has a rink and organization where kids can grow. Even then the powerhouse teams always produce better talent. So then you have people moving their entire lives to get into one of those good districts.

Thanks for the replies. I figured it may not be a big deal at this age but wasn’t sure if they would be violating any type of rules. Her mom is a coworker and mentioned she is rostered on a PPE girls team and just got offered a spot on a PAHL coed team. They weren’t sure if they were going to accept the PAHL spot or not.

Asking for a friend. Can a player be rostered on a PPE team as well as a BY PAHL team? I’m not asking if it’s feasible because I’m sure you could find a way to make it work, I’m asking if it’s allowed by PPE and the PAHL. If it makes a difference, I’m talking about a 2010 female player.

The EXCEL program works directly with NC and PPE. To be in the EXCEL high school program, you have to attend NC. The kids leave school early and go to the rink. The elementary and middle school programs have no affiliation to NC. I don’t think I need to tell you why some people are hesitant to send their kids to NC. A quick google search will tell you what you need to know.

Having tryouts in spring makes sense when you have a good coaching staff that will try to get some summer ice slots or dry land training going, as well as a couple of team building activities. Those teams usually end up being more cohesive when the season really gets going. Same goes for AAA teams that offer summer training programs. The argument can be made that tryouts should be closer to the start of the season because the player can have the opportunity to grow a couple of inches and get faster/stronger over the summer. Might help them be placed more accurately in August. In my personal playing and coaching experience one of two things happens with spring tryouts: Little Johnny knows he made the team in April so he will either bust his ass working hard over the summer to be a top player OR he will sit around and play Xbox and not worry about it because he knows he’s already made the team.

I would pay a gate fee to watch all 6 teams play each other in a local tournament.