Rewster

So, looking at all of the AAA schools in Eastern Pennsylvania playing for the Flyers Cup…all of the schools listed are private schools. They don’t have one public school with a delineated line that separates one school district from another. I think that I even read some names on the school rosters with birthplaces/hometowns that are not even in Pennsylvania. It’s weird because when you look at the Western Pennsylvania AAA school rosters, you don’t see where their hometowns are located…because (with the exception of only 2 schools—Cathedral Prep and Central Catholic), it’s already known where they live.

It no longer works *because it ONLY shows the players’ names and games played—it does not show anything else at all. It’s like for the PAHL to use Sports Engine, they have to include something in their website data. So, if you think about it…what’s the least bit of information that we can make public and still get away with “providing data” to Sports Engine and meet their criteria. That would be listing names and games played. The PAHL made a conscious decision to close the loophole when it became public knowledge that the game sheets were available for everyone to see. I’ll maintain my view on this. What was wrong with keeping the status quo? Nobody complained about it. Nobody was up in arms because Timmy had an extra assist; or Bobby was an Apple shy of a Playmaker Award—do they still give these awards out? Probably not, if nobody knows. My whole contention was the PAHL is deliberately removing, or hiding information that was once public. It’s information that is obviously tabulated and recorded. It’s information that other Tier 2 competitive leagues make readily available. It’s not the professional level of analytics that we’re talking about. It’s just the basics of what hockey has always used when scoring. It’s the equivalent of removing the baseball scorekeeper and scoresheets.

Did you go in after the game started? I know that some schools use parent volunteers to work the front gate and charge admission. So, as soon as the game starts (maybe even warmups), they close up shop quickly in order to watch their kids play.

Yes, that is one reason that I have also heard. The other main reason that have heard (as to why the gag order was implemented to ban statistical publication of the teams and players) was due to fear of parents becoming unruly and complaining about the inaccuracies in shots/saves, assists, goals, etc and the obvious omission from the parents’ expertise. All I know is that these things happen all over North American youth hockey. The successful leagues have a policy in place that addresses disputes in a timely and efficient manner. Either reason that is given as to why they don’t maintain public transparency with statistical data, are both based on the primary tenant of “fear.” Instead of the league awarding an individual trophy for most points, or most goals, or most assists by a forward and/or defenseman/defensewoman; they give out the “participation trophy” equivalency by removing evidence of their existence. Life is a competition. People keep score. Oftentimes, it validates one’s hard work, effort, and commitment to obtaining a team’s success through the individual effort of the 6-person unit at any one time on the ice.

LiveBarn allows you access of the games from this past weekend at Belmont Complex…which reminds me…I hope that I didn’t just ruin it for everyone if PAHL shuts it down now. Do you think they will now black it out so that nobody can go back and watch? Would you be surprised?

There was a glitch in the reporting of the game scores this season for most of the year. You actually could click on the individual games and have access to the digital game sheets and summaries. Nobody complained about it. It was actually pretty nice to see something other than just the final score of each game. Once the league caught wind of their loophole of their statistical lockdown; they sewed it up for good. If there was any one person that complained about the score sheets being open to the public…well, it was the PAHL (obviously). Someone who monitors these boards and has the ability to remove the players’ individual competitiveness. The player statistics were obviously being tabulated and recorded. Why not be transparent about it? Hockey is a team game where keeping score is important. The Fair Play Points make a big difference down the stretch and sometimes it’s what makes teams more or less competitive depending on how aggressive they can be. The game sheets also show these penalties, minutes, and tabulations of the FPP. Without transparency, corruption has a haven.

The person/people in charge of PAHL’s social media presence are currently stuck in paralysis by analysis mode after re-reading this paragraph all day. I’d be surprised if those calling the shots in the PAHL even understand how vast the gulf exists between them and other leagues (i.e. AHF) when we compare their current platforms…then consider the enticement of anonymity to attract the best players in the region. What better way to generate local/regional buzz and draw high-end hockey, than to highlight their teams and players through a package deal with their nonexistent marketing and promotional teams. It’s almost like there’s quite a bit of shame going on over there. They’re actively trying to suppress any information from being leaked out to the public. Interesting philosophy to not want to routinely field the best teams with the best players that Western Pennsylvania has locally grown. If this is the way they are going…then maybe they should mandate the removal of nameplates from the back of the league’s team jerseys too? Id love not knowing who is who while watching games (I’m being facetious). It’d be like watching the Yankees, Red Sox, or Penn State football…only without a program that tells you who’s wearing what number.

You’re correct. But, it basically boils down to the clingiest of clingers to the last thread of any competitive hockey that they’re going to play in their lifetime. I get it (mostly). It’s basically, this is what the culmination of all of those years having fun and working hard is going to be as the competitive apex. For most guys, it’s high school, possibly ACHA D-Whatever for a couple/few years before booze and chicks enter the equation…then that’s it. It ramps up fast; starting at bantam > then U16 > then U18 levels. I’m not really sure that most parents and youth players coming up even realize that it now takes 1-2 of Junior hockey after high school to be legitimate for any reputable ACHA D1 hockey. It was just starting to go that way in the early 2000s when I played. But, that was also the time ACHA D1 layed the foundation in order to shed the “club hockey” stigma…and also started getting players into pro leagues like the ECHL. The landscape has changed quite a bit over the past 20-25 years. I remember when the ECHL was just above the delineation line of what was considered “professional.” $250/wk paycheck was a standard E contract (unless you were under an AHL contract…which was more liveable). It’s all so fleeting when you think about it.

I don’t think that detail matters. Any age group is one too many…

8 out of the 11 AAA teams are in the playoffs. The top 4 seeds host the corresponding bottom 5-8 seeds. I believe that a points tie breaker is: highest win percentage of the teams tied (head-to-head); Total number of Wins …then, then least penalty minutes,

I’m happy to see that they appear to be planning to do a complete review of the current rules—with the antiquated rules theoretically being updated/modernized and the wording to be revised accordingly for clarity and to reduce misunderstanding. At least, I interpreted it as such. In my opinion, the very first step in solving a problem…is to acknowledge that there “may/might” be a problem. The troublesome thing that is apparent to me is that they’re still living in their fears and are motivated by reactionary thinking. But, I am encouraged by the direction that they’re taking with their actions.

Kinda like the PIHL does? The high school league has OT; and if it’s not decided by the completion of regulation or overtime…then, a shootout incurs to determine the winner. That would be fun too.

.

Wow! I had no idea that it was that big! So, would you say (if you were to put the teams in competitive classification order; or from top to bottom: Varsity>Junior Varsity>Junior Gold A>Junior Gold B? -or- 1.) Varsity 2.) Junior Varsity 3.) Junior Gold ‘A’ 4.) Junior Gold ‘B’ Just to be clear with what I am learning…You’re saying that if we took the best AAA High School team in Western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh) PIHL; they would obviously get their doors blown off by atop end Varsity squad (i.e. Edina Varsity) without any doubt…then they would most likely lose by 2-3+ goals to their ‘traditional’ Junior Varsity team…and only maybe then, they would have a competitive game against the high school’s “Team #3,” or the Junior Gold ‘A’ squad. Which aligns with how things squared up this past weekend—Edina defeated PT in the semifinals in OT 4-3…and also defeated NA 2-1 in double OT. So, in other words…the Penguins Cup Champion in AAA (or even AA) would be relegated to the equivalent of sub-JV competition if everybody were suddenly reshuffled. That’s saying quite a lot and is very humbling to put it into perspective.

Edina High School (Minnesota) is as legitimate of a high school hockey program as there is. I remember seeing a thread about someone saying that they routinely have 100-150 players come out for tryouts each year. I don’t remember the details, and from what I’ve heard, this team that won the Hoosier Tournament (pictured above) is not the high school’s top team. Does anyone have any other information? It blows my mind to recognize how much hockey talent is produced in the state of Minnesota each year…and their players are getting D1 offers straight out of HS. No need to play amateur hockey, or (in a lot of cases) really no need to play junior hockey.

Hi PA Hockey—Would you know of, or possibly provide a link so we could be immediately directed to this High School Hockey Tournament? I know that I’ve been seeing more and more tournaments in South Bend over the past few years. From what I’ve seen, their facility looks really awesome. I’ve heard comparisons between ND and PSUs Pegula Ice Arena are pretty close. It looks like a great place to play and just curious if you had a link. I did a very quick Google search/scan and only found previous year’s results.

Wait, whaa?!? Where can one find all of this wonderful information? Now, if I am not mistaken…the Central States Developmental League is slightly larger than our local 18U AA league. They have 14 members comprising their league at this level; and the PAHL just has 8. It seems to me that it would be much more difficult to conduct accurate statistics tracking for each team—especially their players—during the season when the league is almost 2X the size of PAHL. The CSDHL appears to have minimal no difficulty with accurate accounting throughout the season. The CSDHL is thee model of what an American Tier 2 AA league should look like. They are based around Chicago—which is not exactly in anyones top 3 regions for hockey development in the States—as Minnesota, New England, and Michigan are the usual suspects. Now, we have the trend of grouping a bunch of random teams around the country under one umbrella; slapping a them with a logo on their uniforms; and saying they are a mega-league consisting of 30+ teams. Think AHF, NAPHL Showcase, even BEAST has some Tier 2 teams in their 35-team league. The CSDHL is solid. They own the top 5-10 positions in the rankings. They ain’t goin’ nowhere. If you go down slightly on the league rankings…you’ll see that the PAHL is the second best, full-season league in America. The Minnesota Tier 2 league is basically a late summer/early fall league that plays a short season schedule due to the fact that Minnesota High School Hockey is forever king. My point is that if the high-end regional 18U AA leagues (PAHL included) want to remain as major players in Tier 2 national landscape…then they have to be proactive in their approach to their league’s growth and stability. Not do the opposite, and react to fear. It’s been pretty clear that there is an outside presence that is only looking to grow. All I’m saying is that I don’t see the CSDHL as being ripe for the picking.

The PAHL could close the gap and seriously compete with the best Tier 2 18U AA leagues…if they evolve just a little and promote their league as a AA developmental league. Instead, the PAHL have apparently built an iron curtain around accessing any information about the member teams and players. You can find the team names and maybe the players names. But that’s where it ends. They keep any and all statistical information zipped up tight. It’s reminiscent of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. IMO, it’s myopic and has it’s whole foundation based on fear-laden principles. I fear that if it doesn’t adapt and keep up with the times…the outside influencers promising greener pastures might entice some people.

There are only a select number of legitimate AAA programs in the area. Unfortunately, it appears that there are also some programs that “want” to have a competitive AAA squad; but the coaches don’t have the talent that comes with the cost associated with the program. The one thing that the AAA local programs is do well is hold the players accountable and do demand hard work throughout the season. Like I said, they want to have a AAA team that is competitive with other regional/state/national programs…they just can’t align the talent. SHAHA 18U AAA simply folded when they realized that they wouldn’t be able to adequately replace their lost talent through promotion to higher levels. SHAHA “could” have just ran out a team like their previous years and generate some money and recognition. But it would have become quickly evident that the team would have been a shell of its former and most likely cause player growth stunting, frustration from everyone involved, maybe embarrassment, and all of the negatives that comes with less winning. I actually respect the coaches and organization for recognizing the uphill struggles and just retired their top team.

If we were to eliminate (or neutralize) the names highlighted in this claim and just broaden it with a different location/region where nobody really knows any specifics (i.e. “The Ice Shed in Thunder Bay, ONT” or “The “Cow Castle in Green Bay, WI”), and link it with their local amateur hockey organization…I am sure that I’d be one of many people that would dismiss it as hyperbole, too far-fetched, and absurd to even consider it as having any legitimacy. I’d think, here’s someone that is trying to impress how POd they are with that place and are really making it seem waaay worse than the reality is. But, the sad reality is that it’s 100% true (well, maybe except for the roided out hockey parents…I know nothing thing about that—but I wouldn’t be surprised). What I do know is, Armstrong/Belmont is a “fair play black hole.” If your team name doesn’t begin with the letter “A,” forget about it. I think that they even tax you some FPPs off the top as soon as you enter the rink…just like they did back in the old country as tribute. Seriously, this is the only WPA rink that I have ever seen where the guys wearing stripes actually do think that everyone in the stands came to that rink in order to watch them call penalties…on the road team. It’s like they bait the opposition—especially the unknowing parents—just to instigate verbal aggression the very second anyone from the visiting team sniffles their nose, or squeaks a chirp following their absurdly called penalty. I’ve even seen rookie step-parents get thrown out of there, forced to do the silent walk of shame when they were only doing positive cheering—it was nothing disparaging at all. The parents were by simply cheering on the refs (albeit sarcastically) when the refs called one of their infamous invisible man penalties, or their crowd-pleaser of, “2:00 minor for tripping…over their own blue line”…on their way to the bench. SMH

The PAHL is legitimately strong this season at the 18U AA level. All of the teams you’ve listed are top-50 in Tier 2 (except for North Pittsburgh is just outside of that number). Allegheny’s independent team is included—not their PAHL 18U AA team #1. In fact, the last time I looked, the PAHL’s 8-member 18U AA league is ranked 3rd in the entire country. 4th if you include BEAST and their 35-member league that consists of predominantly AAA Tier 1 teams—not sure why they include this league in the Tier 2 rankings when only 4 teams are classified as T2 AA their huge league. The PAHL is only behind the CSDHL and Minnesota’s MNHP as the top Tier 2 AA league in the nation. Just think what it could have been if Allegheny didn’t abdicate their top team, and the Preds and Icemen AAAs players stayed in the PAHL. The league is by no means a slouch this year. Armstrong has validated themselves as a top Tier 2 team. They’re not just playing the local unmatched teams. Plus, they have already played 45 games thus far, with only 5 regulation losses.

Just think about how bad it might get within the newer, and more recent developing USA hockey markets that are in the south and southwest. They have no idea. It’s great overall for USA Hockey. But, reality is going to be a huge wake up call. Plus, they’re flying several hours, or driving 10+ hours for showcase tournaments…only to find they spend hundreds of $ to play the same kind of teams they got their teeth kicked in from last weekend.

You’re mostly right. There was the 2020-2021 season that Canon Mac won the regular season AAA. But, that must have been their culmination; as it’s been the opposite (record-wise) since then.

I’m not surprised that you include 7 schools in 3A. Seneca Valley is separating themselves a bit from the pack. You could almost do a 6-way tie for 2nd place. It’s too bad Canon Mac doesn’t have a competitive squad this year. Did anyone see that Big Macs vs Peters Twp game this week? I thought that the benches were going to jump on the ice. It’s great that the rivalry games get amped up.