Rewster

What age group? As far as I know, at the 18U AAA level, there were 2 teams—Gold (Major or better team) and the Black (Minor or not as good team). I think that it was similar to PPE’s Gold and Black. The Gold team billets, lives there, and goes to school there. The Black (Minor) team would do a preseason training camp, then go out to tournaments/showcases, then reconvene on a weekend when no tournaments were scheduled, and do High Performance Weekend training for 2 days. They’d do that every month or so. It would consist of: Tournaments, High Performance Weekend of practice, tournaments…etc. Players lived at home and commuted for everything. As far as I know, that Black team folded. The Gold (Major) team has players that live and stayed in/near Cincinnati. It’s the customary billeting, online schooling, some minimal commuting, and/or something similar where they have regular practices during the week, and games or tournaments on weekends.

Yes and no. They’re springing up all over the country now. They’re part of TPH (Total Package Hockey). Philadelphia is starting (buying) one for this coming year. I draw parallels with the model that PPE uses. Only, they’re in a lot of places that are not traditional hockey markets. They simply don’t have much in the way of home grown talented hockey players to compile a AAA team. Places like: Cincinnati (Tri-State), Nashville, Des Moines, Atlanta, Ft Lauderdale, Estero/Ft Myers, Huntsville, Phoenix, Waterloo, etc. So, they tend to have to bring in players to fill out their rosters. If you’re a kid that loves hockey and is not going to get seen because you play in rural Iowa, and your parents have the dough to give you a shot that’s better than the local outdoor farm rink in-house league. Pittsburgh is pretty spoiled by the proportionally high number of newer rinks/ice sheets and our proximity to some of the blue-bloods in Michigan, Western NY, and Ontario/Toronto. So, what happens is when non-traditional markets get enough money and support to build a new facility and then TPH moves in and does their thing to attract these kids and their money. Which makes me think (and it’s a little off topic), there’s a lot of old, dark, moldy, smelly, and dingy barns the further north you go (especially in Michigan and Ontario). I’d much rather play out of a new, clean, bright building than some where like an inner city Detroit rink where they use chain link fence instead of glass. Programs like Tri-State (and other TPH) attract players from hockey hotbeds as well because they can sell the facilities, along with their version of high-intensity on/off ice training, and their overall hockey-centric lifestyle. Some kids want that whole experience vs what Pittsburgh has to offer. If you think about it, there’s a shrinking number of AAA programs here with only 3(?) U18 organizations now. That’s a pretty limited number of positions. Most of those positions are already spoken for anyways. Don’t get me wrong, I would not do it. I would have to make a ton load of money to even ever consider it for my son or daughter. But, I get what they’re trying to do.

No truth to that rumor. *From what I heard…they had a legitimate number of players and definitely goalies cut down from Saturday to Sunday. I want to say that I think I heard that there were 11 or 12 goalies that were there each of the first 2 days. I am not sure about total number of skaters. But, I guess it’s easier to pick out and count the goalies rather than the skaters. The goalies are a little different too (in a variety of ways). I don’t know if that tryout number ramped up quickly or what, (and I know how the numbers and talent can reduce at the 18U level) but I’d say that the recent reduction of 06 AAA squads in PGH caused a funneling effect amongst the teams available. When Pittsburgh goes from 6 AAA 2006 birth year-based teams to 3 in about one year…either there is an increase in the number of regional call ups to juniors and/or the incoming 2007 numbers can’t replenish and sustain the competitive levels that are needed. Probably a little of both.

Ogden Mustangs have at least 2 in Philadelphia and 1-2 in Ogden, UT. I think that they own the Philly rink and the team in Utah. But, they are all money grabs, even the main camp I believe. It’s not tuition free until you make the team…but even then; it’s costing money to play in the NCDC.

That’s IF Mr/Miss Strawman makes a ‘no pay to play’ team/league. If, mr Strawman really wants to get looked at by the legitimate Tier 1 organizations, then they are going to have to make that difficult decision to leave all of their friends and family at a young age in order to focus on their hockey progression. There’s big-time costs that start to get involved. Mix that in with increased stress of moving away for the first time; the school and grades will probably slip a bit at first just because of the entirety of everything else involved and slight lack of focus that is expected.and having ups, then they are and The price for everything starts to peak right around midget

I think that tuition is $39,000 / yr for a commuter. So, staying on campus with room and board goes up to $62,000. Then include hockey fees, that price goes up fast.

I think that you’re glossing over my point. My point is that when the usual and customary hierarchy of (*almost) every organization’s competitive ranking of their teams ranges progressively from “B” to “AAA” and there’s an obvious misrepresentation of the organization’s competitive hierarchy…then this is obviously a glaring problem. The Preds can be grouped into this category as evidenced by their “AA” PAHL team demonstrating unquestionably superior peer rankings (or by any measurable metrics / analytics / or comparison of competition through common opponents); when compared with the same organization’s “AAA” Independent team…this is what I am highlighting as my point. Not what level of advanced scouting that is in attendance for their team’s PAHL “AA” games. That doesn’t matter here. The fact that the AA team garnered outside interest at all in the first place (and the AAA team did not) is what is glaring about the whole situation to me. It further illustrates the perceived talent gap between the organization’s same age composition of their top teams. When we look at the price difference involved between the AAA team and the AA team and then look at who’s really benefiting…this should become clear…which is my whole point.

The whole point about the Preds AA PAHL team being unquestionably better than their AAA team speaks volumes about their program as a whole. Not to mention that it indicates that the players and family’s “in the know” understand the price points and how the return on investment (or lack thereof) is a vacuum of spent money for nothing of significance in return. When the 18U AA team is receiving consideration and attention from higher level scouts, but their AAA team is not…well, there’s that “situation” and whatever label we would want to call it.

As HatTrick pointed out…Total Package Hockey I just looked at their site again and noticed how they have grown their “campuses” since I looked at it last year. Interestingly, TPH just established a Philadelphia campus this past November (technically, they’re located in Chester, PA): https://www.tphacademy.com/philadelphia/ Not only does that facility looks really nice, and by having 4 sheets of ice…they can become a destination for Tier 1 hockey and establish themselves as Philly’s preeminent T1 AAA organization. I say this because it is becoming apparent to me that the new shine is wearing off when it comes to PPE and their ability to attract the best hockey players in the region. The NHLs Penguins don’t have the same drawing power that it did just a few years ago; especially when coupled with UPMC Lemieux facility and North Catholic/Excel Academy. The price is beginning to lose its luster when the return on investment is dropping off. I could be wrong. I hope that I am. But, when I see the model used by PPE is pretty much in every major city now; I have to believe that the novelty is not going to resonate with the best players from across the country like it used to. Not when they can do something very similar and do it much closer to their own home.

Their summary just caught me up to speed in a couple of paragraphs… I think that’s what they call, “unintended consequences.” While attempting to point out problems without real solutions; the end result is actually galvanizing the topic at hand. Which doesn’t really make it go away…but only adds to its attention. In any event, I’d add to this by pointing out that other “developing hockey markets” in the states are trying to model their AAA programs similarly to PPE (or vice-versa). TPH has academy’s located in FLA, AZ, Tennessee, and several places in the Midwest (Michigan, Iowa, Ohio, etc) as well. I’m not sure if it’s sustainable. But, it is occurring in other regions in the country.

Does Tenband.tv cover/stream any of the north hills schools games (or anywhere else)? I honestly don’t know. I have to believe that there’s sponsorship & advertising dollars involved. Naturally, that would dictate what games/schools get covered through their online streaming platform. They had their own direct broadcast or an affiliate’s broadcast of all of the Penguins Cup games and Pennsylvania Cup games. In fact, they have been streaming PIHL games for several years. It’s just like any other live sporting events that I’ve seen broadcast or streamed. The primary games that are covered are the ones that receive the sponsorship & advertising dollars.

There are several great points that you made. Inevitably, everyone’s pursuit of playing at the highest level, with/against the best competition, and in the highest profile league possible (or school) gradually comes into focus. These are the same internal struggles that players, families, parents have to come to terms with at some point. I remember hearing Chuck Noll’s saying (with regards to athletic careers): “Maybe it’s now time to get on with you life’s work.” Meaning, competitive athletics is such a short period of time in one’s life. For better or worse, either try to get as much of it as you can, or cut it off when it’s apparent that you’re the at the best as you’ll ever get.

This ought to be good… I will start by answering part of the question: Pittsburgh Penguins Elite are usually 1 or 1A in the region and Esmark Stars are 1B or 2…historically speaking.

That’s a great question. It’s blurry anymore as I don’t think that there’s anymore Junior “B” leagues (or Junior C for that matter) here in the states. I’m sure that there are others on here that can explain it much better than I can. In fact, I’ve had to do research multiple times this year just to figure out what junior leagues/teams exist within the USA—and am still not totally clear. But, to answer your question (correct me if I’m wrong): In the USA, Junior A is basically now the umbrella term for 20U. It’s like, there was suddenly a stigma, and nobody wanted to be labeled as being affiliated with Junior B (or Jr C). So, they eliminated any misinterpretation that the teams/leagues would carry as being “sub-Jr A.” Junior A leagues/teams are all still separated by the customary Tier system…Tier 1: USHL; Tier 2: NAHL; Tier 3: EHL, NA3HL, USPHL. I don’t understand the nuts and bolts with qualifications that distinguish USA sanctioned Junior hockey leagues vs independent leagues. Don’t ask me about Canada as I need a road map just to begin to understand their seemingly endless onion layers of Junior leagues.

That is utterly insane. The market will not bear that kind of price hike for nothing more than a color scheme and name change. What are they getting that would justify that absurdity? A team bus? A new sauna and jacuzzi? It’s gotta be more than just 2-3 additional private locker rooms. “How about…for the low-low Tier 2 hockey fee price of $4,500…we will do the unthinkable…we will create, and implement, the plan for the formation of—‘A’ team within ‘THE’ team.’ This could be ground-breaking stuff, if true. This obviously ain’t your run-of-the-mill, grand-daddy inspired, hodgepodge of random equipment-wearing, players that we’re accustomed to seeing in the PAHL.

AAAA is correct…at least from my non-analytical scientific data & information extrapolation techniques (*patent pending) that knows (at least what it once required) to make a legitimate Top 20 ACHA D1 school’s roster compared to now. The résumé’s of prospective ACHA D1, D2, or even D3 that step on the ice for tryouts today are so much more competitive (at least on paper, which could be saying something too). There’s surely marginal AAA players on weak a** cheese teams that barely play on the 4th line on their midget team coming in with nothing more than the third “A” on their hockey bag and nothing else to back it up. Then again, it’s *mostly politics we’re talking about here anyways. It always is, and such is life… Everyone can’t be naive to believe that hockey is immune to that caveat. Case in point: You got a recognizable hockey family name (that played in the NHL)? Bingo, you’re on the team! Or, in some cases it just takes some extra dough to grease the head honcho’s palms “for that little extra look-see” during tryouts to make sure he sees Johnny’s number. Its simply not an even playing field with a tight, vacuum-sealed lid on top where everyone could see and tell who was the best of the best. The consistently Top ACHA coaches will tell you where they recruit from. It’s not mostly juniors and seniors in high school like we see in other sports. It’s mostly Jr A. The bottom line that I’ve heard is: If you could take that same player either straight outta high school; OR, 1-2 years removed from HS (still as a freshman with 4 years eligibility), who are you gonna take? Considering my maturity level when I was 17-18 years old vs when I was at age 20…it was huge gap just in personal responsibility. There’s always outliers…but from the limited number of ACHA coaches I’ve talked with… it’s trending where they’re primarily looking Junior A as their recruiting base. I think that it’s crazy as well. But, it’s the reality of the situation.

Yes, you’re exactly right…hockey is an entirely different animal. And it has only snowballed into this gigantic enigma that has (I’m guessing) mirrored Canadian U-Sports in terms of taking seasoned 20- year old Junior A players; instead of immediately recruiting 18-year old high school players. Even in this area, a lot the current ACHA schools have evolved from an “idea” of starting a program, to assembling a coaching staff and players in terms of without any recruiting or prior student athlete player knowledge. They would simply form a club team. Then roll the dice on finding already enrolled students that could pose as functional players that can skate and shoot. I remember when Pitt, and even Liberty University basically launched their programs from the ground up. Now, in order to seriously be considered as a player on a top 25 program, you have to pretty much play Junior A; or at least AAA and sit out a year or so. I was talking to an ACHA coach that was at the Pennsylvania Cup trilogy of games 2 years ago in Philadelphia. I remember asking him if he was scouting or actively talking to any players in the games. Surprisingly to me, he said no. He was there as a fan and to support a relative that was playing. He said that very same thing about only scouting Jr A players anymore. I didn’t realize how fast the competition and arms race that this sport has morphed into. It’s crazy to me.

This whole thread seems like it abruptly turned into Western Pennsylvania Youth Hockey’s version of “Grumpy old Men.” Frankly, it reminds me of a multi-generational commiseration of the “back-in-my-day” old farts sipping coffee and telling stories about how they should have listened to their mom & dad and played baseball (or football); instead wasting their childhood years and dreams by playing hockey in Pittsburgh…since, ya know…’nobody from Pittsburgh ever gets noticed, scouted, or goes anywhere.’ I can still picture so many people saying, “Sorry kid, you should have been born further north if you wanna play hockey…yeah, you gotta be from Canada, New England, Michigan, or Minnesota if you want to ever go anywhere in this sport.” It’s weird how there’s never any mention about how quickly this region has progressed from next to nothing as a legitimate hockey region—when discussed by all of the blue-blood and traditional North American hockey markets (i.e. Boston/New England, Buffalo/Western NY, Detroit/Michigan, Minnesota, Toronto/Ontario, Montreal/Quebec, even Western Canada). It’s truly included in those circles now and accepted as such when considering the talent pool of hockey players that come out of Pittsburgh…only not on par with their overall numbers, of course. Put it another way, it appears that Pittsburgh is way past the emerging hockey market problems. You don’t ever hear stories about people complaining about 5:00 AM available ice slots; only having 3-4 ice rinks available within an hour drive; or having generations of parents that never skated or played hockey and having to resort to being self-taught… or receive marginal hockey knowledge and coaching from guys that were only qualified because they were born in Canada or Maine.

Meh, now you could very well be right about the 16U AA PAHL hockey quality being terrible. I have not kept close tabs on the skill level disparity across the board, or the coaching levels, competition, recent history, etc. I know that this year’s PAHL 18U AA hockey was honestly some of the best Midget Major hockey that I have seen as a conglomerate in this region. Armstrong is obviously the best as they have gone toe-to-toe with just about every reputable Tier 2 18U AA league in the nation; and either won, or tied. Considering that Armstrong was this year’s PAHLs 18U AA measuring stick. There were 4 or sometimes 5 league teams in the PAHL that could have been legitimate players in Tier 2 18U Nationals. Maybe this is the culmination year for PAHL and the entirety of their divisions and organizations. It could be the brilliance of the bright flame going out in PAHL 18U AA…never to be rivaled again. I’d argue this season was …possibly/probably the best “ever” that came together in the history of the league’s apex age classification.

I believe that “crawl” that you are describing is also known as protecting one’s own self interest. Sometimes, it’s actually not the ones “standing proud” that win. As the Gambler once said…you’ve got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em, know when to walk away, and know when to run. I’ve witnessed the “proud standing” ones that find themselves on a train bound to nowhere.

I would think that a lot (or most) of the teams would charter a bus. At least those based East of the Mississippi River. I’m only guessing based on showcase tournaments.

At the very least, Liberty appears to be the current incarnation of ACHA college hockey’s version of “how to build a hockey powerhouse program through the same principles that the USA military implements everywhere it goes…spend an absurd amount of dollars acquiring an absurdly excessive amount of superior assets that will simply overwhelm any competition.” It appears to be a sound strategy if money is not an object.

I don’t know Jeff Docking. I never met him. All I do know, is that he almost pulled off the exact same feat at W&J as he is currently doing at Adrian. Just didn’t quite get the overall push like he wanted from the school. As far as I know/remember, he was thee entire reason W&J had a brief, but illustrious ACHA college hockey flash in the pan. He was the reason why W&J acquired their own Iceoplex locker room, training room,, everything that comes with a traditional legitimate college hockey program during a time where it just didn’t happen (unless you were NCAA).

Does anyone remember Life University back in the 1990s early 2000s? They “were” (I honestly don’t know anymore) a chiropractic school in Georgia that somehow managed to lure in a team full of ringers from Canada that nobody knew anything about. They dominated out of nowhere for several seasons.

Are we talking about one game? You know (as well as I know) that it “could” be the #1 team in the nation playing #50 from EBF Wherever, Iowa. If the inferior team has a goalie standing on his/her head whilst making unconscious saves on multiple occasions…and team Numero Uno starts having internal struggles with who gets the puck and coach starts panicking by switching up linemates (only to hinder offensive production and impede defensive responsibilities) it can inevitably come down to who’s going to blink first. When you have that large of a disparity in rankings…and the longer the time goes where the margin on the scoreboard is negligible…the more likely that the higher ranked team implodes and the lower ranked team builds esteem and momentum.