Saucey

Don't you guys have anything better to do? Danner27 and The King (think it is the same guy) love it when someone takes their bait. Just move on.

Just now, sadday4hockey said:

Having a tough time digesting the fervor behind this mindset. Is it ignorance towards the severity of this health crisis or is it the ignorance of the "bulldozer parents" who shall let nothing stand in the path of what Jimmy deserves?

I mean, I get it. It sucks. It sucks bad, but to have such tunnel vision is hard to understand.

 

I think there are a lot of people who believe this it has been blown out of proportion. I pray it is.

We now have AA and AA squared. ? 'High level AA' team = marketing ploy to charge more. This AA squared team is so much better than playing in a PAHL AA because it is high performing! 

What? If they are similar in compete level to a AA PAHL team, guess what...you are not higher performing. 

Parents caught on to the faux AAA so now they are AA squared. Somewhere in between AA and AAA, I guess.

Same old with a new label. 

18 minutes ago, twoboys said:

The only thing stopping the PAHL teams from doing it are the PAHL teams.  For starters, if the coach doesn't want to do it then it won't happen.  The organization also has to give them extra ice slots for practice and independent games.  That may not be possible.  If it is possible then you got to pay more.  Does everyone want to pay more?  Not always the case.  Sometimes, parents are happy to play AA and a couple of tournaments.  And lastly, they need prime practice slots since kids are likely traveling some distance to get there.  If you are having a high level AA team your team probably isn't home grown.  All of this makes the other teams in the organization mad and jealous. 

That last line exemplifies one of many reasons teams like the Icemen are ridiculed so much. The superior attitude exuded by the parents and kids, when they aren't doing anything better than playing AA hockey. But 'High performance' is the sales pitch to justify the higher price tag. And the ridicule my kid receives from them to stay in PAHL. Too many crazies in the stands turning their noses up at the plebes. On the other hand, maybe it is good to have a place for these folks to land so they AREN'T on my kid's team.

The PAHL team that just handily beat one of those high performance AA teams to win the MidAm is a good example of  what RegDunlop7 is talking about.

I hate them because they water down PAHL and they are driving up the cost of playing hockey without any discernible benefit to development that is superior to a PAHL team that I've been able to see. As all the AA kids leave, PAHL play is more uneven, and I start having to think about going to keep the play level correct for my kid, and I hate it. But I don't want to travel every weekend or pay more than I already do. Or be at Ice Connection, which is still not a great rink.

Good ice times? That's not the word I've heard about practice times on one sheet.

Offering things parents want that you can't find in PAHL? Please.

1 minute ago, Hockeyboomer87 said:

They are fielding 2008, 2009, and 2010 birth year teams for yetis 
 

but I just looked up on pahl that their squirt team finished dead last in AA and that would be the 09-10 years. 
 

 

Yetis are meant to play in PAHL, yes? PAHL does not support BY except at Bantam AA minor, which has its own problems as noted in other threads. What are these organizations selling parents currently to promote BY in a market that can't properly support BY at the moment, anyone know?

7 minutes ago, Hockeyboomer87 said:

But there’s a lot of teams that have a mixed year team in the AA minor division. So that makes no sense 

Agree wholeheartedly. There are a lot of teams with mixed BYs in AA minor because, again, this market can't adequately support BY with its numbers. Also makes no sense why only one division gets a minor age group while all other kids playing at the lower BY will play mixed BY. Only AA kids need to be protected, I guess.

My opinion, there were other reasons for doing it. What they were, I don't know.

And that 'AA' minor hockey BY is not as good as the A Major hockey mixed teams. You have a kid moving up to bantam who played AA the year before, I would want them to be on the A major team and not the AA minor. Makes it odd when you are trying to go to tournaments I bet. Guess where the tournament directors are going to want to put you....AA, where you are likely to play against AA major BY teams.

It's just goofy to me. We've had two seasons of it now. Anyone have a kid who played in it that thought it was good/bad and want to chime in?

1 minute ago, RegDunlop7 said:

I find it hard to believe that an 18U team would hold 12:00 practices unless it was affiliated with a particular school -- seems like a heavy burden for students attending schools that aren't five minutes from the rink. I'm also convinced that @Danner27 and @The King are the same person with how much they compliment each other on here lol.

Yes! I've been thinking that too, same person.

15 hours ago, Puckthat said:

You do sound like a dick.  People on this forum either complain that kids are playing for faux AAA teams or shit on them when they play AA, work hard and earn the right to play at Tier II nationals .  

Agreed. And I find it ironic that many of the people who crap all over the AA kids with comments like this are the same ones trying to form AAA teams outside of Pens Elite, whose market and audience are AA kids for the most part. This is what they really think of your player, folks.

Tier II Renegades 14u won, no surprise there.  Looked bored and like they weren't even trying as they toyed with the Icemen in that Championship game. 

2 hours ago, Hockey00 said:

Why does PAHL support the birth year then in bantam having AA Major and AA minor? Is it just because they check 

Yes, first year of checking. The thought was it is safer to introduce the concept in the younger year rather than having all the expert second year Bantams blowing the beginners up. We didn't play in it, so not sure how that worked out....but because some years and some programs can't put together an entire BY together, some of the teams still ended up mixed level. Kind of defeating the purpose a bit. Gonna get my first exposure to it this year I guess. Can't wait.

At the risk of The King coming for me, since my opinion is always wrong...I would say it depends on your kid's skill level and where you want to play. The fact is, PAHL is not set up for BY, nor should it be. Western PA does not have the numbers to support it at this time, as has been said over and over here. The top team for most big organizations is usually BY. If your kid is trying out at a big organization and is a AA player, most likely that will be default BY team, maybe a few exceptional younger kids sprinkled in here and there.

If you are looking at one of the independent teams, are you able to judge if the kids are at a similar level? There are some around having some success. 

Both my kids are in low number BY so this has never really been an option for them, and I really have a hard time understanding the fascination with doing it. Maybe take a look at the coach's kid on that team....what is that kid's skill level? Does he seem to lag behind the rest a bit? Sometimes, not always, that is the primary purpose of doing that, because if it were a mixed BY, that child and a few others would likely not be on that team, and goodness what a tragedy if those children played in a lower division. 

Mixed BY has been a good experience for us, with teams formed based on skill. They liked playing with different kids each year. Being exposed to different coaches. For the good athlete (and some children, not all), having the more experienced players pushes them and they grow more than they would have on a BY team. I have seen bottom players in the younger BY get left in the dust over the course of a season, so I would say for them, it was not good developmentally. That child may have been better off playing at a lower level. Those bubble children are always hard.

The issue with BY teams around here is that you can see a much bigger range of skill from top to bottom, making it hard to compete. And if they get placed in a division with mostly older BY, they get slaughtered.

So, in short, it depends on your kid. Don't let coaches tell you how it is so fantastic that the kids stay together....kids don't develop at the same pace. You should expect that some may come and go over time based on skill, growth spurts, etc. If the tryout is looking for skill, you shouldn't see the same kids every year. Keeping them together purely because of age, it's just not good developmentally. And... parents tend to look for greener pastures. Don't do it just to keep kids together, that can't be guaranteed by anyone.

It's an art, not a science. Some years your kid is going to have a good year, others not so much. Look for a program that is interested in development at all of its levels, not just top teams. More likely to find that your kid will be placed right and will be developed, whatever his skill.

36 minutes ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Preds 05 and PPE Black are not AAA.  Try to look up their combined records this season can top 25 AAA teams. You can’t, because neither has played any.  No western PA 2005 AA team is ranked in top 20.  Without a doubt this is a weak birth year. There might be 2 or 3 players in this birth year that get an invite to USA Hockey 15 Camp. 

Ya, that is the first time I ever heard anyone claim 05 is strong. Many of the PAHL AA teams, including the bigger programs, have a good number of  06s. That should tell you enough about that BY. 

From Urban Dictionary:

Quit feeding the troll everyone.

45 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Yes there will be a 05 team Mt Lebo AAA keeping the birth years together can’t do that in AA @ U 15

Heard that 04 Mt Lebo AAA team kids leaving heading towards the Preds organization AAA U 16.

I think you meant this under a different heading.

36 minutes ago, The King said:

Ok so you’ve made over 150 posts here and you are claiming that you’re under the impression that clubs field AAA teams becomes there are no other AAA in town to play? Come on man. Go back and read the multitude of posts relating to the very subject you’re claiming to be confused about if you really want the answer. Otherwise, you’re beating a dead horse in an otherwise tired subject thread. 

Whatever dude. They are a AA team supposedly talking about playing AAA. I thought teams go AAA because you think you got too good for AA so you are leaving to play a AAA schedule. If they aren't dominating AA, why go independent? So ya, I don't get it. Mt Lebo is a good program. That 04 team was very good, I understand them looking for other teams outside of PAHL. The 05 team, not the same. 

They didn't dominate PAHL this year. There was a three way tie in wins for second, third and fourth place, suggesting good local competition. Why not continue to play PAHL? I always thought that teams did that AAA route because there was no one locally to play, whether accurate or not. And those three teams were competitive with the first place team going by the scores. I don't get it, if that is the plan.

2 hours ago, RegDunlop7 said:

Aka the faux-AAA market.

Yeah, the teams trying to field the extra A seem to benefit more when Elite sheds rather than PAHL. Some will come back. A decent number went to NP last year instead of playing black.

It will be interesting to see what happens to PAHL girls. There just aren't enough girls around here yet to support all these teams. It is growing, but not enough yet to support all of this. I thought PPE girls kept the younger ages as tournament/partial schedule teams because there are not enough girls teams to play games against at those ages. Something suddenly change for next year? I think some girls added other teams to get more games. This full schedule may just be more practice time.

1 hour ago, The King said:

Interesting you bemoan labeling yet your entire post was mocking kids that “return to PAHL”. Your limited experience with maybe 1 or 2 players that previously played Tier 1 is not an adequate sample size to make a judgement. I’m basing this off of your previous posts that clearly show a limited knowledge of the wider scope of the hockey world. Also, let’s limit the criticism of coaches from any team. I have criticized coaches for limited abilities but I also have the experience that allows me to make an informed evaluation. The blanket statements about Tier 1 players “frequently” believing they’re too good for your kid only show insecurity. And saying coaches of the teams are not the ones to ask to evaluate your player but to ask parents? That shows a very flawed way of thinking and shows that you’re more than likely one of the parents that coaches hate. Coaches will cut kids based on the parents. Maybe you think it’s wrong, but nobody should be forced to take a player of the parents are impossible and constantly causing problems. 
 

Maybe just let people make their own decisions. Plenty of coaches below Tier 1 or 2 waste people’s money. If you don’t provide quality training with the resources available, teach the game properly, play down levels to ensure success, etc, you’re not providing value. Your personal failings aren’t guaranteed for everyone else. 
 

just my opinion

My kids have also played with some kids who returned to PAHL from AAA and were just fine. You make some valid points, some had nightmare parents or the kid was, and yes, I don't think you should get to play a team sport if you don't play with the team, so if that was the reason for the cut, fine. Some simply weren't a AAA player to begin with, or didn't remain one.

I find it interesting that you assume personal failings on my part when you know nothing about me, but whatever. That is your MO, to attack personally when you disagree. At least you did it in a more constructive manner this time, so kudos. So I think it is fair to point out that you were once associated with an independent program trying to play AAA, yes? So I have bias, you have that bias. And you believe that USA hockey is all a scam and a conspiracy, as you like to point out. We are all suckers to you. 

Fine to let people make their own decisions. I have no problems with parents. They want what is best for their child. We are programmed that way. People in support of all these AAA teams floating around always say, it's their money. People should be able to spend their money however they want.

But frequently it isn't a level playing field when these decisions are made. I do have a problem with people who just want to field teams, people who know better and take advantage. I don't think that is buyer beware...if the parents don't know hockey and the person recruiting does, that is not a level playing field. Undoubtedly, this happens. People taking advantage of the parents' desire to believe their child is the best and the rest of the world doesn't see it. For money. Sometimes so the recruiting coach's kid gets a AAA team. How many of these independent programs we have floating around here began for one kid? How many times where we see teams that don't have enough AAA talent to field one, but move forward anyway, filling in with who they can? I just have a hard time trusting the people who want my money telling me my kid is elite and think trying to find someone with no skin in the game to evaluate your kid is better.  

You get crap training in PAHL, at least it wasn't part of a con where you are being told your kid is elite, and you spent a lot less there. Same cycle repeats over and over. There's always a new crop of squirt parents the next year.

I have no problem with people wanting to play AAA hockey. But can't we wait until they are older to label them that way? Wait to treat them like mini pro adults? Wait to have them treat a sport like a job? How many kids are there who are actually elite?

Just my opinion.

11 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Not saying it never happens but 99% of the time if you have been around PAHL for a year or more someone would approach you (your parents) about trying out for a AAA team If you are standing out enough to look that good. Exception might be "AAA" squirt year 1. I doubt many kids show up cold turkey and make a team.

Just because someone approaches you doesn't mean your kid is AAA talent. Sometimes the team needs to fill a roster. A lot of times. I know kids on the AAA teams that have never made a AA roster in PAHL. And they've tried out at multiple programs over the years. I don't think all of those programs are misjudging that badly. Mom and dad are misjudging badly and there is someone happy to take their money.

If your kid is dominating PAHL AA and seems to need more to progress, then start thinking about AAA. And remember that dominating as a squirt is not the same as dominating as a Bantam. The coaches of these faux AAA teams are not the ones to ask. Again, they may need to fill a roster. People that have no skin in the game are better. People in your current program that have older kids playing in AA or AAA. People who evaluate your kid in your program. The person you take privates from. In fact, these people may begin to express interest in working with your child because they see something more in him or her.

I see the kids who get cut from the AAA programs later. Frequently, in their head they are elite and always will be. So they are nightmares if they come back to PAHL. So much better than their teammates, PAHL is beneath them. They make sure everyone knows it. They don't play a team game, because everyone sucks but them. Or they exit hockey all together because they thought they were going to the show and now see no more reason to play. Or got burned out.

I think we do a lot more harm than good labeling young kids as elite sometimes.

Does anyone really care at this point?  

You need to have ex pros coach your 2009s to be a draw these days. ? I don't think Dean and Fritz have much of a connection to parents coming in. And they still have that awful rink, which has improved but is still awful.

7 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

I've seen him work with kids, looks like  he really knows his shit and gets them going. That said, when I've been around, he seems like he's usually working with older kids- maybe a bit intense for squirt or peewee? I only mention it because he seems like a great coach. But if he coaches young kids (that just want to play hockey, or who are there because their parents make them) like the older kids, I could see where maybe they'd get burned out after so much of it? Again, by all accounts he's very good, and I only mention it because as much as I've thought about signing mine up for one of his summer camps, I've also considered 14 or 15 to maybe be a more appropriate age for that type of training? But I don't really know, or any know nobody to ask who's had that experience with a 12 or under kid. 

I can't speak to the younger ages but my boy is the age range you mentioned got a lot out of it. I do know a few younger kids who play D who liked his camp. Bairel just published their programming for the summer, Yuri runs his Interel out of different rinks around town, I also know people who liked what the Pens have to offer.

38 minutes ago, miked said:

@Hockeyaintathang

find an organization that isn't a hassle to get to

LOL, you ARE new to the area. Welcome to PGH where anywhere you go takes between 20 minutes to 2 hours to get to and you can almost never go the same way back as whence you came. and never ever forget the golden rule, You can't get there from here. 

?

 

Actually, if you live near the rink you've picked as your home organization, it's not so bad. It's only when you need to go through a tunnel or cross a bridge, which of course, we all do, living in Pittsburgh, that you start to have issues. ?

Genesis won 16u over the Pittsburgh Predators 3 to 0.

North Pittsburgh won 14u 3 to 1 over the Blazers.

Allegheny Badgers won 12u in double OT. That was a great division with lots of good competition.

I don't know what happened for 10u, couldn't find any results.

What are you talking about, that's the perfect target age for parents living the dream.