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100% not accurate. The money is coming in the form of merit scholarships. I know kids that have and are receiving it. Do you understand what a merit scholarships is ? It can be anything. Hey you are great at art! Here is an art scholarship, thanks for coming coach wants you on the club team. ps - Elmira is a ncaa d3 program. That’s problem number one for them, the ncaa has no involvement in club sports. If you read the article they got In trouble because they didn’t balance their merit scholarships. They are competing with the club schools. Really all this article does is further my point how the big acha programs run like ncaa d1 programs. “ELMIRA, N.Y. (WENY) - Elmira College was penalized by the NCAA on Friday in an infractions decision which found that EC gave merit-based scholarships to student-athletes at a disproportionately higher rate than non-student-athletes.

100% accurate. They want to have fun, still play & socialize - nothing wrong with that at all! Support them, they only get one childhood. To add if you think your kid has the potential to be a pro, 16 is when they are gone off to Canadian Major Junior or the ushl. If you think you kid has the potential to be a ncaa d1 player - this group is gone by 17 to the ushl - 18 tier 2 juniors. Yes before someone screams so and so didn’t make the nahl until he was 19! Yes. Some will make tier 2 leagues at 19, these kids normally are the ones with out much of a chance to make ncaa d1, talented players but not high end. Even though the nahl is considered an “older league” the top players of said league started playing at 18.

Yes, the mid west division / conference that has lindenwood operates like it’s ncaa d1 making up merit scholarships for anything they can. this trend started about 6-7 years ago. No, you are not going to play hockey on a full scholarship (most ncaa d1 kids are not on full scholarships at the mid to small programs) but they find creative ways to get the players they want. Most acha m1 programs will In some way offer some financial help for players they really want, the kids considered top players on the team, but it’s the top programs that really pony up for kids they want. I’ve have not heard much or seen much in regards to this at the m2&3 levels. locally, I know a kid rmu gave 4k a year to for a language scholarship to help push him to attend and play. Yes, it’s not much but he’s a local kid that wanted to attend rmu anyway. Tuition around this time was 18k a year if you commuted. This player had pretty good hs transcripts with a very high sat score. After all the normal minor stuff, academic achievement scholarships etc I think he was down to 14k a year then they added the language scholarship for another 4k. In the end he got 16k over 4 years due to his hockey ability. This player I’m speaking of is a 99 who spent 6 years at PPE, my oldest played with him - do the math, this was before excel was around, a season at PPE During these years with travel was costing around 8-9k. I was told rmu does not often operate like this but they knew this player was considering a ncaa d3 school across the state that cost 3xs more. to continue locally, I have never heard much about the other schools doing much of anything like this but I’d be willing to bet if there is a kid they really want who has other options via academics, more than likely the coach will help the school find some coins in the sofa to create some sort of merit scholarship, but you better be a STELLAR HS student with very high SAT / ACT scores. I know the tests are optional now at a lot of colleges but they are still a big driving force behind academic money.

Maybe you have a problem with reading comprehension ? PPE / ESMARK vs FAUX AAA. The point is, if you kid is Aspiring to play REAL junior hockey, locally these are your only two & best options to achieve this path. Locally (14U & up - when it matters) these two clubs are where the best local players are playing. Yes, PPE is on a higher level and your kids chances are greater. Yes - more than likely, even coming out of these programs your kid will end up playing acha hockey. yes, the top 25 acha m1 programs will beat the majority of ncaa d3 teams. ncaa d3 is status hockey “my kid plays ncaa hockey”. The majority of ncaa d3 programs are on par with most acha m1 programs when it comes to skill, speed etc. not to mention, look at a lot of these schools that have ncaa d3 programs, would you really want you kid going there for academics ? They use the ncaa tag to get kids to attend some of these schools. College is a business. Sure you will get a few kids out of tier 3 that make the good acha m1 teams. similar to PPE / Esmark needing 4th line players.

Honestly none of it matters much until 15U if your player is looking to try and make it in some sort of way - real junior hockey. What are 09’s now, peewee ???

YES The majority of acha m1 is really good hockey. Just like real tier 1 hockey, there is big difference though between top 25 teams. for the most part yes, many kids also leave ncaa d3 to play acha m1. There is a reason ncaa d3 teams don’t schedule with acha m1 very often anymore. The tier 3 junior parent has showed up. buddy, my kids are done. I hang around to keep up with Pahl (my niece plays) also, maybe I can help some parent from getting suckered into the money making machine, going into massive credit card debt or re mortgaging their house because a coach sold them a line of BS. There will always be status parents (my kid is playing junior hockey in Canada! Meanwhile it’s the nojhl OR GTML - My kid plays AAA hockey! Meanwhile the team is already out of the district tourney, the team can’t even skate with ppe or midget esmark) these parents have no problem dumping cash for a dead end, that’s their prerogative. Spend your money how you want! It’s yours! But I’ve also known parents that have been deceptively talked into the bs of tier 3 juniors & faux AAA, not knowing any better for multiple different reasons. I am here to share information & my experiences for these folks. If it saves them some money and headaches for the kid - GREAT! For 99% of the youth hockey players in North America it all ends the same.

You would be speaking mainly of the 2 & 3 divisions. Go take a look at acha M1 teams such as Adrian, lindenwood, liberty etc. locally ? Sure some of the faux aaa kids get onto the local M1 teams but I think that’s only rmu, pitt & Wvu locally playing m1 ? Rmu has a really nice team this year, especially with one of the Ncaa kids on the team. Most local acha teams are m2 & m3. WVU is awful - not a m1 team. I have never been negative towards AA hockey, not sure where you are getting that! I am a supporter of Pahl AA, it’s one of the reasons I call out the faux AAA teams. Hey look! It’s not even mid October, at 18u - icemen, vengeance & predators are already out of the district tournament! Mt Lebanon is still hanging in there but culver has not played yet, they will eventually enter in around the 2-3 position making Mt Lebanon fight it out with Cleveland & Indy for the final spot (6).

They already have for 21U - it’s called tier 3 junior hockey ? much cheaper to play beer league! Even acha m3!

Not many. Acha M1 is very good hockey. It’s full of kids that played AAA from real programs, some nahl, ncdc and various Canadian tier 2 juniors.

This made me spit my coffee out! Not so much because the 09’s, because the last 2-3 years I’ve seen all these social media posts, parents on Facebook etc “my kid committed to play hockey at XXX university” They have a little hockey card made up etc. club hockey is great at the M1 level, but come on with the committed bs.

Same model we discussed on this board somewhere already the usphl uses (usphl-premier-ncdc)

I don’t think he’s saying tier 2 juniors is weak, he’s saying the naphl is weak. For the most part it is. not to start a new topic, how many of those 1,500 nahl players over the past 6 years are playing ncaa d1 ? I don’t count ncaa d3 that’s an entirely different avenue. If you have the money, your kid can make ncaa d3 hockey. On average, It’s usually the top 2 or so players on a nahl team that make it to ncaa d1. the nahl is a good league, but let’s be real, it’s not the ushl, or on par with some of the Canadian tier 2 leagues. If I can manage to find it / still have the email - I had a spread sheet sent to me 2-3 years ago that listed every ncaa d1 player, where they came from. I don’t recall the exact numbers but the ncdc was abysmal with something like 3-4 kids for this given year, the nahl was mid-ish . The majority of the players came out of the ushl, bchl, etc. this is not a shot at at the nahl in anyway, just pointing out how hard it is to become a ncca d1 hockey player, even with the small d1 schools out there.

Missing the point. He signed an ncdc contract. Decided to play in a different league. The Usphl sent him a buyout bill. There wasn’t a damn thing the family could do about it per the contract that was signed.

Correct, but it’s only for the current season (It was still that way a few years ago). After the player doesn’t make the team they can still play in other junior leagues. Thus the reason old folks like myself still refer to tenders as a ticket to main camp. Does anyone have access to a current nahl tender contract ? I’d be curious to see how they look today. the ncdc / usphl is another animal. I know a player who’s family had to buy his way out of an ncdc contract. If you’ve ever seen an ncdc contract, you wouldn’t let your kid sign It with out a 100% guarantee in writing your kid will be on the team, playing, and thats not going to happen. You forfeit your rights to any litigation, all matters are decided by the usphl and the usphl only in Boston.

While I somewhat agree, PPE will have a 2002 & 2003 drafted into the NHL pretty soon. Both kids were tossed aside, PPE had nothing to do with their success. with that said, PPE will start to see other kids of theirs drafted from the 2002-2004 BY alone. I can think of 5 kids excluding the two I mentioned above. To clarify to someone - getting tendered by a junior team does not mean they own your rights. It’s just a ticket to main camp for the coming season.

I swear we covered this in a different thread. I don’t feel like regurgitating the info again.

It’s really early. Look during the end of October when teams get up to 15 games. Good amount of teams not ranked yet because they have not played 5 games.

This is true. It’s the same as the na3 putting the nahl carrot before the horse, the naphl is part of it. Esmark pads the stats of their top players during 16 & 18. (one of my kids was the beneficiary of this). Almost every goal has two assists, phantom points etc. once the player ends up at a nahl camp with 80 points or so in 50-60 games, doesn’t stand out they are cut or told to go pay to play in the na3 we will keep an eye on you. The nahl also has to tender / draft X amount of kids from the naphl each year. It’s how they keep the nahl funded, the players paying to pay tier 3 na3. Naphl-na3-nahl is advertised as the ladder of development but it’s really just another rung in the machine. It’s the same model the usphl ripped off. with that said, playing for esmark your kid can possibly get a real look from a real Junior league like the nahl but as the above poster points out it very rarely works out. Usually the top 2-3 players in points every year from the naphl teams get a nahl tender or drafted. it pains me every time I say it. PPE if you are still in western pa at the age of 16 or older.

Look at the rosters of some of the Ohio usphl teams - full of Ohio HS hockey players, kids that probably wouldn’t make a Pahl AA team in western pa. They will pretty much take anyone. There is a local 2005 playing (more than likely sitting in the stands) for one of the Ohio usphl teams. This kid couldn’t make any of the faux aaa 16u teams - but now he’s playing “junior hockey” ( edit - talked to a buddy in Michigan tonight, Wooster only had 14 skaters at tryouts - everyone made the team so he will play. Two years ago they couldn’t field a team, last year they almost folded it. They lost their opener tonight 12–1. Looking at the roster half the team would have never made Pahl AA. Sorry for the assumption the kid would sit in the stands, that’s normally the case for under 18’s these teams normally carry up to 30 paying customers) They carry up to 30 kids on those teams because it’s “Junior hockey” The mid west usphl teams are much cheaper than the north east. Last I can recall the vengeance were around 10k a season. The east and north east teams run around 15-20k a season. They dangle the ncdc carrot at the parents & players (not really tier 2 juniors more like tier 2.5). The na3 also does the same trick with the nahl. go play acha if you are going to continue your education. It’s much cheaper, it’s where 99% of the kids ultimately end up in the end if they continue playing. chances are if it’s a good acha d1 program your kid will be playing with good players & against good players. There are a lot of NAHL & NCDC kids in the acha. I know the kid being talked about that’s playing in the usphl (elite not premier) - dad knows he’s not going anywhere. I forget what his dads screen name was here but he use to post a lot. He’s an 02, he played with my youngest one season. He’s a very bright kid, graduated HS early. there’s a decent amount of 2002-03 from western pa in the usphl right now. Like I said, it’s the new extra A for twice the price! I decided to take a look at the local acha teams from the bigger schools around western pa. Here is a great example. 21 year old freshman, probably wasted 40k playing in the usphl. Most kids would be in their Junior if not senior year of college at this point. https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/471676/cam-grant

Right on the money with tier 3 Junior hockey. It’s the new extra A. It’s like scam artists got together and said how do we keep making money off these people now that their kids are done with youth hockey ? The usphl is a joke.

I wouldn’t call myself wise, more like experienced. I made my share of dumb decisions for my boys too! honestly, it depresses me a little hanging around here. It Makes me realize how much I enjoyed (now miss) watching my boys play the game, excel at a much higher level than I ever could. It really makes me realize they are grown up. Until you get to this point in life, it’s hard to put into words. There are a lot of younger parents finding this place, being a new or younger hockey parent is like being a teenager again - they don’t listen & won’t listen - they know it all. They have to learn it on their own. I was this way myself with my first son coming up. the best advice I can give everyone here - it goes by so fast! Just try to enjoy the the time with your kids. Don’t worry about what team your kid made, just make sure they are having fun and enjoying playing the game. Your kids more than likely, regardless how good they are will never have a chance to be a ncaa d1 player let alone a pro - regardless of how skilled they are. I once had a pro scout tell my 75% of the kids playing in the OHL have the talent to become pro hockey players at some level but they never will. Why ? I ask. Money & connections. Unless your kid is the next top 3 pick in nhl, a generational talent - it won’t happen. If this is your kid, he’s out of western pa by 14. Just look at how many ex pro kids are drafted or playing in the nhl now. Look right here in our backyard - that certain PPE kid who belongs on a Pahl AA team - but his dad was a politician along with being Bill Clinton’s campaign manager (now you can connect the dots why burkle brought him in to the pro org) and runs the pro team. The resources put behind that kid, working out with Crosby for years. All the special treatment, pushed through all the district camps, drafted by all the major Junior leagues, ncaa d1 commit (ivy league schools do not give our athletic scholarship). I’ve seen Pahl AA and HS players that skate better, have a much higher hockey iq and are generally just more talented. This is one of the reasons why everyone should be pulling for ty voit! As I talked about somewhere, his father went against the system! ugh now I’m going to start to get into the politics. The Inner workings of the system. Sounding jaded, Disgruntled because one of my talented kids didn’t make it. That’s far from the truth, but I’m sure it comes off that way. Peace out ✌️

While I appreciate you words. I just don’t think I have much to contribute anymore. The landscape has clearly changed. My kids are done. Watching my niece play has sort of kept me lurking (the new rule changes).

The predator’s always had extra fee’s for Gary’s gym. they were at one time the “cheapest” “AAA” - advertised in the $2000 range. I could be mistaken, but I believe it was advertised just like that on their website. I remember a dad telling us by the time he paid coaches fees. Slush fund, yellow helmet-gloves-bag-jerseys, some crappy league fee (njphl or something ?), mandatory gym fee etc the cost was higher than what we had ever paid @ esmark. (PPE had the highest fees in our day) This parent compared it to buying a new car “I thought it would cost this but by the time we drove it off the lot it was much more with all the up selling and it lost its value!” I will say the season fees at PPE were justified even though it was highest we ever paid. Excellent coaching & real trainers. My son was on the ice 3 days a week, off ice 2-3 days a week. He practically lived at the rink. Excel didn’t exist yet. In comparison Esmark had a joke of an off ice program with 2 days a week practice. on the flip side, esmark’s travel was higher than anything we ever did at ppe, I’m sure much higher than the predators. Sorry to highjack this thread with fee’s but the current discussion of birth year teams just reminded me how few tier 1 teams there were 8-10 years ago in the states. Along with how good AA hockey was back then. I don’t think growth is the reason for the current landscape (not just in western pa) it’s people finding more ways to make money, younger parents with high hopes, truly uneducated parents falling for the sales pitch along with status parents. I also believe PPE helped destroy tier 2 locally with their bull$hit black teams. I remember watching the first year these black teams came out, it was a squirt major or peewee minor team I think (possibly 2004 BY I am trying to do the math real quick in my head as I type) I was dumbfounded how bad the players were, how bad they skated. I believe the coach was a dad with two kids on the team. It’s hard to remember, I could be wrong on the BY, I’ve seen to much youth hockey & it’s starting to run together anymore. Anyway, It went against everything PPE was trying to be. Looking back now it’s obvious why those black teams were created - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ taken from the type of parents I was speaking about above, to subsidize the pro practice rink. The same kind of parents today that will gladly pay the money for that extra A at predators, Icemen, Vengance & whomever else is calling themselves AAA these days. I am really showing my age, it’s probably time for me to depart this place. I’m thankful the majority of my kids playing days it wasn’t like it is today. If I could turn back the clocks, have the knowledge I have now, I would have tried to enjoy it more. Not worry about how well they play, how competitive they are etc. before you realize it, it’s all over. Sorry for ramblin’ on. Good luck to the younger parents, there are predators after your cash everywhere these days in the hockey world!

Unless something has changed over the last few years, when my boys played PPE & Esmark did not charge (show) a coaching fee. It was all one lump sum. Ice slots, games, league fees, off ice, trainers, coaches etc. both of these organizations have staff on a seasonal salary for their work. Sure, you are paying for their salary in your seasonal fees but it was never shown nor talked about what any of the coaching staff made.

I thought it may have been discussed on here before, even though I know the inner workings I’m not sure it’s my place to put it all out there. The short that I feel everyone around knows (with out the 2 years of major details) he questioned the excel / nc thing publicly - Morehouse threatened to kick his kids out of the program - PPE didn’t like that he was doing “free” skills across the street to help kids - he voiced his opinion on lesser players (2003) getting showcased (it’s pretty obvious now he was correct) - Morehouse banned him from the rink so he went to the away games ?There is a lot, in the end, he came out on top - not just his own son but others he believed in. especially an 02 PPE kicked out that is on a path to play for PSU. I could list 10 players from 02-03 birth year that he was directly involved with that are all playing real junior hockey in the ushl, ohl etc. all these kids are on a track to major ncaa d1 programs or pro. PPE used some of these kids to get a national championship for a certain group of 2003’s playing up at U16 and tossed the others because the families wouldn’t pay (or couldn’t afford) the ransom. I’m sure In another 2-3 years these kids will be on the upmc rinks wall but PPE had nothing to do with their success. Someone else did, Marc.