forbin

Most PAHL teams have at least two practices a week right? And from my experience most of them basically run the same practice format for both nights. Why not make one dedicated to skills and one dedicated to hockey IQ stuff? It would be totally doable. Even if multiple 12u teams are sharing the ice, they could work on full ice game systems together. Then throw in an after practice 30-45 minute video session. Instead they put so much emphasis on individual skills and seem to forget it’s a team sport. Just my .02 and because it’s so dependent on the coaching it’s a complete gamble as to what you’re getting.

This is one example of maybe why its different (better?) in other areas: My friend in MN has kids who play high level. His youngest is a squirt minor A at a large "powerhouse" organization and I guess would be comparable to the level of PPE/Vengeance at that age even though the skill level is much higher. They have three ice slots a week. One is a skills practice and power skating where they incorporate the PEP system. The other two practices are team drills. They run systems, they run passing plays, they go over powerplays and penalty kills. They breakdown game film and show the kids what they did well and what they can improve on. They teach hockey IQ. There really isn't any reason why the local WPA organizations cant adopt that mentality even at the PAHL level.

I personally think alot of peoples gripe with PPE bringing in outside talent is that when the program was first introduced its MAIN selling point was to offer an avenue to develop local talent at the highest level possible. We are all coming to find out (or have known for years) that it was crock of sh!t. This program was started to give certain executives children a place to play and has since morphed into a tax shelter for the NHL team. The more national championships they win, the more ad revenue they can bring in, the more money they can line their pockets with. Hell, the freaking OFFICIAL team name is the Dick's Sporting Goods Pittsburgh Penguins Elite. When the coaches are pulling in six figure salaries you know its no longer about the development of local players. They are being paid to win at all costs. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's the bold truth. There is absolutely no reason why Pittsburgh can't have another avenue for talented hockey players.

This is not my opinion, but I'm willing to bet the response will be "play PAHL AA".

I both love and hate the “play where you live”model. It does already pretty much happen at the PAHL level anyway. Most Foxes kids live in Moon area, most NP kids are from Cranberry area. Where it gets wishy washy is in the south hills. Preds, Lebo , shaha, southpointe all seem to cross with each other. I like the idea because kids get to play with their classmates and most likely play with each other the whole way up from mites to midgets, BUT I personally live less than 10 minutes from one organizations rink and drive the 30 minutes to my kids team rink for the simple fact that it offers more of what we want. I think the locations of the rinks in the area naturally segregate the players enough. You don’t see many kids who live in Plum playing for Southpointe simply because of logistics. At the AAA level the only way it would make sense to segregate is if there was one organization in each of the locations surrounding the city. North(PPE), South(Preds), East(Esmark), West(?). The problem with that idea is demographically it would struggle to field strong teams at each location. It only works perfectly in MN because everyone plays hockey. Every small town has a rink and organization where kids can grow. Even then the powerhouse teams always produce better talent. So then you have people moving their entire lives to get into one of those good districts.

Thanks for the replies. I figured it may not be a big deal at this age but wasn’t sure if they would be violating any type of rules. Her mom is a coworker and mentioned she is rostered on a PPE girls team and just got offered a spot on a PAHL coed team. They weren’t sure if they were going to accept the PAHL spot or not.

Asking for a friend. Can a player be rostered on a PPE team as well as a BY PAHL team? I’m not asking if it’s feasible because I’m sure you could find a way to make it work, I’m asking if it’s allowed by PPE and the PAHL. If it makes a difference, I’m talking about a 2010 female player.

The EXCEL program works directly with NC and PPE. To be in the EXCEL high school program, you have to attend NC. The kids leave school early and go to the rink. The elementary and middle school programs have no affiliation to NC. I don’t think I need to tell you why some people are hesitant to send their kids to NC. A quick google search will tell you what you need to know.

Having tryouts in spring makes sense when you have a good coaching staff that will try to get some summer ice slots or dry land training going, as well as a couple of team building activities. Those teams usually end up being more cohesive when the season really gets going. Same goes for AAA teams that offer summer training programs. The argument can be made that tryouts should be closer to the start of the season because the player can have the opportunity to grow a couple of inches and get faster/stronger over the summer. Might help them be placed more accurately in August. In my personal playing and coaching experience one of two things happens with spring tryouts: Little Johnny knows he made the team in April so he will either bust his ass working hard over the summer to be a top player OR he will sit around and play Xbox and not worry about it because he knows he’s already made the team.

I would pay a gate fee to watch all 6 teams play each other in a local tournament.

This is absolutely true. It’s how my oldest ended up with the 66ers a few years back. A coach in a PPE jacket approached my wife after a jamboree in delmont and went on and on about how talented our kid was. He was 7. I’ll admit, we were naive and swooned. So we jumped ship the following year and quite honestly it sucked. The environment there was terrible for my son and my family. I’m sure it’s great for others but we we’re definitely the black sheep of the group.

PPE is a white collar clique. Predetermined rosters based on parental income and butt kissing, but then again that's pretty much everywhere nowadays. It's so funny to me to see what Cranberry has become. It was a whole different world growing up there in the late 80's. I avoid it like the plague now.

There are some local organizations that do a good job of preparing their 8 or soon to be 9 year old's for full ice by using the last few weeks of practice to introduce full ice concepts, D zone breakouts, offsides, icing etc. There's also a handful of mite to squirt transition camps during the summer. RMU runs a great camp for that. That being said, it's not nearly enough experience to prepare them. A ton of first year squirt games (especially at the A minor and B level) are all 10 skaters bunching up by the puck and countless offside calls. As @HereWithPopcorn mentioned, the goalie pool gets shallower every year, and I agree that it has a ton to do with not allowing "full time" goalies at the 8U level. There are some kids that are just born to be goalies. Let them play the position.

This is so incredibly true, and EXACTLY why a lot of people are moving towards the 'AAA" model at the squirt and peewee level. They don't want the parent coaches anymore. My oldest kids first year squirt coach couldn't even skate. A true "bender" in every sense of the word. He apparently played football growing up, but got his USA hockey coaching certs and was a decent guy they decided to make him the head coach. The drills at practices were atrocious. It was a terrible experience all around.

Is Vengeance cheaper than PPE?

So you guys are saying the ADM model is creating weaker hockey-minded players? So 6 year olds playing full ice is a better method?

As of 2019-2020 USA hockey numbers there are 1,554 registered male players ages 15-16 in Western PA. Lets say its an average roster size of 18 players on a team. That's roughly 86 teams. PPE and independent 'AAA" teams and at the 15O and 16U level make up roughly 10 of those teams. 180 legit AAA level kids out of 1,554 doesn't seem like a far stretch to me. Roughly 11% of players in the area at those ages. I don't see why there isn't room for having 4-6 AAA programs in this area.

I had exposure at PPE (lil 66ers) with my oldest and it was not a good experience for my family. I was not a fan of their style. Different strokes for different folks. I wont go into details. That being said I have really have no idea what else is out there for 'AAA' at the squirt and peewee level. We will most likely stay in PAHL and continue to do lessons and extra training stuff on our own. Worry about the extra A when he's a bantam. But to answer your question, yes I would explore the other 'AAA' clubs. I actually like the SCIR hybrid model of playing a PAHL AA schedule and independent AA/AAA games. The problem with that is we are very far from Alpha. I think the biggest cost difference is travel expenses and tournament fees.

Nice Post @Saucey. A lot of good points. I really appreciate this board when we can have thoughtful and intelligent conversation about the sport. While I agree with a lot what you said about the level of competition locally and people leaving for AAA for ice time and coaching, I will bring up one thing. I have family members whos daughters are heavily involved in extremely competitive dance and cheerleading where they travel across the country for competitions and showcases etc. They all know there is virtually zero opportunity for a professional avenue after the girls are 18 to pursue their passion of dance or cheerleading, but they still dump the time and money into because it is what their kids are passionate about right now. They have the type of girls that would be bored dancing locally or cheering for their HS football team. Every kid is different. Some kids, like your son don't want all the extra stuff that comes along with 'AAA' hockey and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I have a son who is the exact same way. He's happiest playing house league honestly. Some kids, however DO want to travel to MN or TX for tournaments even if its just when they are 12-16 years old. My youngest has that mentality right now. He wants to skate every day, he wants to play at the highest level he can. Will that change as he gets older? Maybe, maybe not but I will facilitate whatever I can to make him happy.

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that good players can come from anywhere, just that the desire for the third A is watering down what already relatively small talent WPA has at that playing level. It does suck that PPE has essentially cornered the market and sticks their nose up to any other AAA program in the area.

They teach that move at the Hextall Goalie School

I believe the mom of the kid who was being whacked by the goalie uploaded the video to a private FB hockey mom group that my wife is a part of. There were a few comments saying something along the lines of "he was checking to see if he was ok" and "I don't see anything wrong with what the goalie did". Fortunately though, the rest of the hundreds of comments were against his actions.

You should see the comments on Facebook defending the goalies actions. Unbelievable.

Because they can't let down the curtain and show their parents what other options are out there. There should absolutely be a Pittsburgh AAA tournament every year. PPE, Vengeance, Preds, etc. Put it all out there and let the games do the talking. There is NO way PPE would ever agree to do that though unfortunately.