Lifelongbender

13 hours ago, sarampage said:

Players in the CSDHL (Central States Region) are only allowed to move once up to 16U.  They get one more move at 16U.  Keeps some players from jumping around every year in Tier 2.

This seems like a good idea, or at least the kernel of a good idea. It's hard to see how a regional scheme - like they do in little league - would work, since there are so many fewer rinks than baseball fields, and significantly fewer players, too. As far as I know, though, it's never been discussed anywhere but on this board, where a system like this gets talked about once or twice a year. (For all I know little league isn't regional anymore, either. I may have just shown my age. When I was a kid you played little league for your home borough.)

In our region team shopping is a really serious issue. Every year there are lots of players who try out for every organization they can reasonably get to for practices and commit to the organization where they make the "highest" team. Which feeds into teams adding those extra As just to attract players to tryouts and teams. It's a ridiculous self-reinforcing cycle that makes it hard for organizations to put up consistent teams and hard for players to make informed decisions about where they want to play. Not to mention that changing organizations can come with substantial (and typically non-transparent) costs for jerseys, warmups, equipment bags, etc.

My kids played for the same organization for their whole careers, but my observation is that hopping around team shopping doesn't work out too well for the kids most of the time, either. Turns out that the grass is just about the same shade of green everywhere for most players. And when you change organizations, you don't have friends there already, or connections, or that one coach who knows your kid and wants them again this season. Plus there's the issue of kids getting negative reputations for jumping around. If they're good enough it doesn't much matter, I guess - someone will always take them - but for most kids getting that label is a bad thing. 

@Saucey made a good point above. It always seems like this sort of hopping around is driven more by the parents than by the players. In the end, it's the decision of the families involved, but it seems like as often as not families make decisions that prioritize "status" over development. 

12 hours ago, Danner27 said:

100% confirmed to me the other day, BB does own it. This should be good for that old place. Real Zamboni ? Doubt they anything can be done with the concrete boards. 

It's hard to see what can be done to improve Rostraver. I have been thinking that maybe they'll build a new facility in that big parking lot and then tear the old one down. Need to stay open during construction to honor existing contracts after all.

In theory they could fill in the existing rink and then build a new one at the level of the top of the existing boards. I have always assumed that the boards were built that way because they also act as retaining structures for fill under the stands, so removing and replacing them isn't much of an option. Even if that's not true, you'd still have a concrete slab at the back of the boards for the entire perimeter of the rink, except the Zamboni entrance and the two stairwells at the entrance end.

I will say that I was there a couple days ago and it sure seemed like the dehumidifiers were not running. The glass was more or less completely opaque due to water condensation on it, and the players were complaining about the ice, too.

On 8/26/2022 at 11:55 AM, aaaahockey said:

Any updates on this one?

I talked to someone I consider absolutely reliable tonight. Apparently Rostraver management met with Black Bear representatives last week out at Delmont and signed the papers. As far as I can tell this is a done deal at this point, quite literally. 

2 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

Livebarn contracts with the rinks themselves. Not the teams that play in the building.

Well, that's entirely true. But the teams that play there can request that the LiveBarn cameras be shut off during their practices, and often do. Many high school varsity teams in the region have them shut off during their practices, as do several of the independent and "higher" teams.

Honestly it's not uncommon at all to log into LiveBarn and find that Alpha, in particular, is still blacked out. Since the LiveBarn timeslots start more or less at the top of the hour, when game slots do not align with the top of the hour the same way, it's not uncommon to find that part of a game is blocked because the previous hour was a practice that had the cameras shut off. I know that I have seen that happen at Alpha, and then parents from the team asked Alpha to turn the cameras on for the game and they did turn them on.

That may be the answer to @hockeyisgreat's question above, too. Either the slot is often used by one of these teams, or maybe it's used on off days and the rink just shut the slot off across the board, or possibly you happen to overlap with a practice that was shut off.

Most high school teams are shutting LiveBarn off when they practice nowadays. This is no surprise at all.

48 minutes ago, Mysonisagoalie said:

I remember that rink as I played there as well. I think it was in the park next to the Lew Hays ball field where they play the Pony League World Series. I also remember a rink in Bridgeville that had concrete block walls instead of boards. I think it is a roller rink now. 

Yeah, that's still there, too. Smaller than a standard rink back then, wasn't it?

On 7/9/2022 at 2:13 PM, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I played somewhere outside in what I believe was in Washington county that had fence as the “glass”. Does anyone remember where that rink may have been? 

Wheeling Park had chain link instead of glass until more recently than you'd think, but that's in WV.

On 5/27/2022 at 2:11 PM, sadday4hockey said:

The younger developing players often struggle to maintain their early advantages, especially players who have that early growth spurt and end up relying on size more than anything.

And is has to suck to be the main man at 12U and by 16U be playing "gasp" lowly PAHL hockey. ?

This is true, both in my experience and according to the experts. The best players at 10U and 12U are typically not the best players at 16U. It's not universal but it's a well-known phenomenon.

19 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

That's until parents email the coaches with practice plans because they are not happy with the flow or drills.

And yell from the stands about playing certain lines over others.

5 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Sounds like a good idea! Have you seen any Girls PIHL games?  

I've seen several and they've been good ones- close games and exciting.

I thought that Black Bear officially announced that they were going to put in that second sheet shortly after they bought the facility. Maybe I imagined that.

13 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

There was a period of time Cal played out of BP Bladerunners I believe.  I’m assuming it would be a less than desirable move back given that it’s down to one sheet now and a further trek - but potentially necessary. 

That's right - Cal played there for a decent time before the YMCA bought the building. I assume the single sheet of ice, combined with the number of teams SHAHA has been fielding, Cal playing there would be very unlikely.

On 4/24/2022 at 12:59 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

Next question?  Which is the biggest Organization in Western PA?  Does anyone actually know? From ADM to 18U.  North Pitt, Allegheny, or Foxes?  I think it would be one of those 3.

For the last couple years the biggest organization has actually been SHAHA based on the number of teams.

1 hour ago, Corsi said:

If I remember correctly, they did the Hockeyville updates, but the issue was that there is concrete behind the boards, because the ice sheet is below the stands.  The NHL and the NHLPA decided that it wasn't safe to host an NHL game if there wasn't any "give" to the boards as a very valid player safety concern.  

This is correct. The boards are part of the retaining system for the soil below the stands. I'm pretty sure that the boards themselves are partly concrete. Anyone who bought that rink and wanted to modernize it would end up having to deal with that issue eventually. 

2 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

I've always ben impressed with Rick as well. I think others are correct that he's able to adapt really well each year depending on his players and his opponents.

Saw that Rick Tingle is going to coach the Rebellion 09 team next year. Cool that he's going to coach a PAHL team.

I believe he's also coaching a team in the Girl's league this spring.

Man, every so often I get excited because of all the hockey talk on this site. And then the above happens. Nowadays, and for a long time, it's been a waste of time to click on 90% of new postings because they're all just arguments about who is and isn't a real hockey parent.

Why don't you guys just meet in a parking lot somewhere and work it out so that we can all talk about hockey instead?

2 hours ago, Novos51 said:

Yes it’s short and minimal bleachers. As much as we did extending the building to extend the ice and add more bleachers was not financially feasible. There is a wishlist item to build a second sheet but further growth would have to happen for that to occur

Well, for what it's worth the renovations and addition are really nice. The lobby renovations look great, too.

30 minutes ago, forbin said:

Hess Ice Rink in Newcastle, PA. It was a terrible rink before, pretty nice now. Locker rooms are some of the best around actually in my opinion. Biggest negative is there is only one small bleacher area so you just have to stand along the glass. 

The new locker rooms up there are great. HUGE. No doubt.

I may be wrong but I think the neutral zone is short there - I don't think it's a regulation sized rink.

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

That's a problem too too but it's a different unicorn.  In the south hills, when you don't get your way, you just switch to another org and hop from/to SHAHA, Preds, Mt Lebo.  But in the north, when you don't get your way, you take your stick and puck and form your own team in the wild wild west.  

It's tragic how true this post is.

10 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Is that good or bad?  Guaranteed partial schedule. I expected Black Bear to make a bigger push for their own leagues (Tier 2) as they now have so many rinks.  Would make sense for them to fill them up with as many games and practices as they can.

It's probably both. Since almost no organizations in the Pittsburgh area take girls hockey seriously, and PAHL definitely doesn't, it's probably good for the girls teams in the city that do take it seriously. Hard to know how it will affect coed hockey, but honestly a little competition for PAHL seems positive. The only worry I have is the possibility that having competing leagues in the city will make both of them worse by diluting talent.

1 hour ago, HereWithPopcorn said:

I guess they need more fees for the lawyers.  There is no reason a local Midget aged kid playing PAHL or PIHL should be forced to pay "Union Dues" at $70 for the privilege of playing the sport.

 

They'll probably claim it's based on actuary tables.

Sigh.

10 hours ago, Hockeymomma said:

If it’s that simple, why hasn’t it been done? What about during practices when these parents act like asses? Do you hire security for practices/24 hours a day? Who collects this $5 a game? 

This is a 24/7 problem, not just a game day problem. Why do you think most organizations can’t find anyone except a dad to coach?

Also, most security guards are old men and retirees. What do you expect them to do against men half thier age, bigger and stronger? Honestly the only thing they can do is to call the police.

Well, it's my understanding that PIHL told member programs that additional security would be required at future games at the last meeting. Prices are going to go up. Also, maybe it's just the rinks that I go to for games, but the PIHL security around my neck of the woods is usually an armed PA State Constable. They are typically not rent-a-cops in my area.

On 2/12/2022 at 6:12 PM, Saucey said:

I'd be worried more about criminal charges than what PIHL would do. This stuff follows you around.

@Saucey is right on this one. You can do quite a bit on the ice in a game without criminal charges, typically - lots of things that would be subject to criminal charges off the ice are typical behavior on the ice. Once you enter the stands, though, it seems to me you don't enjoy that distinction any more. I'd think that everyone involved here on both sides should be giving their attorney a heads-up call about right now - players and parents from both sides. In the end you have a situation here where a (presumed) juvenile and an "adult" attacked another "adult", who probably is not innocent either.

I don't get why people don't see this more clearly. Instead of denigrating this post, as at least one poster has, we should be thinking about it a bit more. These people might ALL be subject to some sort of legal action. They should certainly be quickly sanctioned by their respective organizations, at the very least as a symbolic move in separating the organization from their behavior.

But we live in a region where there are a couple legendary coaches who are notorious for all sorts of bad behavior and are deeply respected and admired anyway. So there you go. Probably both organizations try to avoid taking any action against the nitwits involved, and the youth sports environment continues to spiral. As someone else has said here, ultimately and sadly this only hurts the kids.

On 2/13/2022 at 1:10 AM, nemesis8679 said:

Who made the decision for the organization to give their own suspension? The MS coach? Varsity coach? Athletic Director? So they do that at MS level, but let Varsity do whatever they want? Sounds unorganized. 

Unorganized? Sadly, it sounds typical. Varsity players are often treated differently from MS or even JV players. It's the way the world works.

Terrible, but true. And, for the record, not good for the player to be treated specially, either. 

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

"Systems" - go to any HS game and count how many times the puck handler enters the offensive zone on a rush ( F1 ) and goes down the middle to try and stick handle through two D to score.  Then count how many times F1 enters the O-zone and goes wide, F2 crashes the net and F3 goes high slot.

You would need three hands or more to count how many times  F1 goes up the middle and one hand to count those taking the puck wide.  The F1,F2,F3 "system" is taught since U12 and you will find many HS players playing selfishly to pad their own stats by dangling through the middle.  It is painful to watch.  I have watched those same players that do this in their HS game, yet play to the "system" on their AA and AAA level teams.  Not all, but many.

 

100% yes. This is entirely correct.

And this may the greatest example of coaches failing players. So many of these kids learn the wrong lessons when they're young because coaches encourage them to do this, because at that age (ie, before hitting) they're able to beat a couple D and score. And they just learn to do it because the teams win games and everyone tells them how great they are, when in fact they're not getting good fundamentals. Then you get to high school and the phenom tries to put the puck between the D's legs, only to find that at that level the D doesn't really care much about the puck. They simply play the body and the rush is broken.

It drives me nuts to see that. But play a team from Detroit, or Boston. They don't do that.