Stinger17

Because we like stats and facts around here I went over to the AHF website and checked the scores for 14u AA from this past weekend. It was refreashingly easy to find the info. I didn't see any home and homes with local teams from across the river on any of their schedules. Only 3 of the 4 local teams played games. Two of those teams had great weekends by going 4-0 and statisticly dominated their opponents, the other was a respectable 2-2. Best of luck to all of these teams representing Western Pa hockey.

10U and exposure are two words that don't go together in any sport. I assumed people would understand I meant 14u, 16u and 18u and the AA level. My point was they attract teams from outside their league for tournaments. Yes it sucks to travel to play another Pittsburgh team. My guess is they have a "West" division in the works when they get enough teams. The writing on the wall for that should be pretty clear by now. It wasn't a comparison it was an example of a league that's got their shite together. The CSDHL consists of only AA birth year teams that play a mix of AA/AAA games. It's a legimite bridge league between Tier 2 and Tier 1. They also have limits on the movement of players from organization to organization to prevent the green grass effect that we see here so often. Back to my point, it wouldn't take much more than a phone call or email to another league (the CSDHL was my example) to develop some type of inter-league play/tournaments. This could be a fixed option for local organizations to fill out their "independent" schedules or a "reward" for the say top 4 teams at the 14u thru 18u levels. Basically this is what Big Bear actually did but without the "hostile takover". It's youth sports, it's a business and it's called travel hockey for a reason. Would you rather drop money and go to tryouts for the pop-up local spring team just to be cut because the team was already picked? or the team filled with players trying to compete well above their actual level of play but players aren't cut because it's a money grab? If the stats are available its not that hard to figure out which kids to invite. I know it's crazy to think about getting all the best players in the area actually on the same team. But if a league did this it might take some of the politics out of it. If memory serves, the Keystone Games used to be a big deal and part of it was because it was invite only? Can anyone confirm that? Western Pa can't be sorted out from the rest of the state on EliteProspects so those facts aren't easy to find. I understand that was a broad statement but it doesn't take much browsing to see that junior rosters (in the US) have a lot of players these areas. Maybe our numbers are still greater but they are closing the gap on us faster than we have closed the gap on Michigan or even NY. I wouldn't even consider a comparison to Minnesota or Mass. Seattle and Vegas are too young, 90's and early 2000's expansion citys. 7 PA kids on an NCAA D1 roster is the exception and not the rule. (Some of those players are from out east.) I think it would be hard to find another roster with 2 or 3 from all of PA let alone the Pittsburgh area. I wish it was the norm! To be 100% clear, I am not an advocate for/against the AHF or intent on bashing PAHL and it's member organizations. I'm just saying it never hurts to look at the competition to see what they are doing...

Some random thoughts from a consumer’s standpoint: The AHF(Big Bear) should be a wake up call for PAHL as a “service provider” and it’s member organizations. The AHF provides stats. PAHL does not. They are generally hidden from public view and I’m not sure why. The AHF promotes their league, teams and players on social media and thru tournaments. PAHL does not. These things matter in todays hockey world. From getting a players name out there, to attracting better teams for competition and establishing league recognition on a national level. For the record I do understand that I’m talking about Tier 2. As an example most everyone knows about the CSDHL and the quality of the teams in that league year after year. Your team is going get a good game. Maybe PAHL starts to organize some showcase tournaments with other leagues??? Maybe PAHL does all star teams? Or “select” teams to compete in spring tournaments?…I think you can find most of that on the AHF page. So much is said about growing the sport in this area. Well, PAHL and its member organizations have been running things around here for decades like a glorified traveling house league and that needs to change sooner than later. IMO the league hasn’t seen the writing on the wall but many member organizations have. The result is all of the independent teams that people on here complain about. Props to those organizations for trying to fill the expectations of what travel hockey should be. I ask this question: “Why are newer NHL city’s in non-traditional hockey markets developing and moving on more kids than Western PA which has had some form of pro hockey for almost 100 years?” To my earlier point, we should be done “growing” the sport and established. High school hockey has been played here for over 50 years at some organizations. Based on a 4 year “generation” at that level we’ve had 12+ generations in that timespan. The foundation is there but the maturity is not. Bottom line is PAHL has competition and competition is good for the consumer. PAHL can raise the bar and improve the product that they control or become a memory.

I wasn't specific to a team or individual(s), but reading thru this thread it's pretty clear that some people have an ax to grind with Montour hockey (board, coaches and parents) that goes beyond this issue of eligilibilty.... I'm not sure how the number of goalies in their program has anything to do with this? They didn't have enough and now they do. Different names living in the same house should not raise a question in today's world. It's called divorce, never married, blended, multiple baby daddy's etc. That alone shouldn't raise an alarm.

Agree!!!! I would bet money that the people that reported this to PIHL at some point had a conversation with the former Commissioner (RIP) and did not like the answer he gave them.

“I’m going to move my kid to Pittsburgh to play high school hockey to help further his hockey career” - Said no parent ever I very much doubt that he was “brought in”Kids come to Pittsburgh to play for PPE and Esmark not high school. Billets are the luck of the draw. The player could have ended up at any of the other schools that have kids playing for Esmark. To their credit, unlike the other program, they encourage their players to play for their high school teams.

The tryout dates for 14u thru 18u are on Easter weekend…like mentioned above I hope this gets cleaned up.

I agree that the PPE and Esmark teams are, if I may paraphrase, destination teams for scouts. The top teams and I'm not putting a number on them, will always draw. However they don't always play each other which opens the door for players from "lesser" programs to get noticed, be it scheduled games, tournaments or showcases. The old saying about "if your good enought they will find you" only applies if you play where they are looking. None of us would expect to see scouts at an A Major game, it's not gonna happen. Generally it's the top kids on a given team that get the looks. So I ask, is it better to be buried on the third or fourth line of a team like PPE or playing top line minutes on a lesser AAA team? I think this is one of the main reasons why the alternative programs exist. Random thought....Why doesn't Esmark start running 2 teams for 15u, 16u and 18u? Their tryout numbers would support it.

At this point why would anyone consider PPE a organization that "serves" this area??? They are a Tier 1 program that operates here. All of the organizations mentioned feed of off each other like canibals. PPE on your resume will get you at least one guranteed year at Esmark and probably two years at the Vengeance and so on down the line. Yes, none of these programs are perfect BUT they are still better than PAHL. Tier 1 is about exposure. Exposure to top competition and the opportunity to move up which is something that playing in a glorified house league cannot offer. Yes, parents brag...AAA parents sound like a$$holes to AA parents and AA parents sound the same to A parents...and so on. Get over it. With all of the TIER 1 options in the Pittsburgh area the question people should be asking is "Why isn't PAHL developing players to fill all of these Tier 1 roster spots?" Cities with a lot less hockey history than Western PA have produced multiple competitive Tier 1 programs, think Nashville, Dallas, Florida (and yes I know they import). Why is Pittsburgh behind??? PAHL is the main feeder for "development" (cough!) for all of these programs based on volume at the younger ages. Yet it can be derived from comments across this board that the kids they are "developing" aren't good enough to move on to play "Legitimate" AAA. At the same time people suggest that kids stay in PAHL to be developed and save some money. For what??? To be "developed" enough to be accused of chasing an A or told they're not playing for a real AAA program?.....We should be grateful that there are opportunities other than PPE for local kids to play Tier 1. Please stop calling it faux. The fact is none of these programs are really developing kids so much as it's the individual kids that put in the work and are being recruited to play and/or seek better competition on their own, both local and abroad. The really good ones play for free (wink, wink). It's the old saying "there are hockey players and there are kids playing hockey". Hockey players want to be challenged, embrace adversity, put in the work and appreciate the journey. Kids playing hockey want to be with their buddies, have snacks, show off their participation trophies and make up excuses why they didn't make that FAUX AAA team. Figure out which one your kids are and make peace with it...

How old is your goalie and what is their current level of play?

The Minnesota model starts with a split season and it doesn’t look like that will happen anytime soon. I personally believe that the current model in This area is limiting the growth of the sport and development of the players. Here’s a link to the report http://online.fliphtml5.com/nums/chna/

The underlying theme to all of these AAA posts seems to be that unless “Little Billy” started as a Mite in a AAA program (Insert name of program you find holy), he will never be a AAA player. Fact is most of the players currently rostered with all of the AAA programs came from PAHL and were once AA and A level players. All of the teams that are talked about have a core group of kids that will make teams year after year. They are usually the 10 kids On the ice in the 3rd period of a tight game while their teammates sit on the bench and watch. Those kids on the bench are usually cut the next year for a new batch of kids with high hopes and dreams. And so on, rinse and repeat....Maybe if all the AAA teams would actually schedule games against each other on a regular basis, rather than a chance matchup at a distant tournament, everyone that visits this board for the limited amount of useful information would be spared the constant sword fighting. good day!