twoboys

The birth year that I am most familiar with has everyone at North Catholic and Excel.

That isn't true. At the high school level, the kids need to be able to get their before school lets out. Hence the North Catholic version of the program.

Theses days skills guys are anywhere from 40-60 for group lessons. A private is usually more. Sometimes you have to pay the rink 10 a session. Now, kids take a ton of lessons early on and make the PPE/Lil 66ers. They can usually hang on for a while. Cause most of the kids do Excel. There is a wait list for Excel at the younger ages.

My one son has taken lessons from a bunch of different instructors over the years. At times he never misses a week and other times he doesn't go for a few months. The way I see it is that 1/3 of the kids taking lessons are already playing AAA. 1/3 are not even close to playing AA. The rest are in between. And for the most part, most of the time the kids taking lessons are Squirts and Peewees. I would think that in order to significantly improve a kid better take at least a couple of lessons a week on top of his or her practices. Most parents aren't willing to put the time or money to this extent. Basically, a hundred a week. 400 a month. 7 month season total about 2800. Plus the off season when it probably is even more expensive cause you are probably trying to get you kid on the ice ton. It is rare that a parent trying to save money by playing PAHL will spend that kind of money. More likely, a parent/kid wants to play AAA but isn't good enough so they take lesson to try and improve.

The way that I look at it is different than others. I see playing for a decent ACHA Div 1 team as an accomplishment and a good thing for a kid. Unfortunately, to play on some of these club team you have to play juniors, right? I just don't get knocking AAA hockey at birth years below Bantam Major. When I look at it, most/all of the Pens Elite kids have been there since the beginning or they have been recruited from out of town. So, if you want to play for the PPE and have the best shot at Juniors you have to get in the system early. Am I wrong? At u15, didn't one Pahl kid crack the PPE this year? And he played up for his Dad, right? And at 07, one kid left made it from the Vengeance, right? Not from a PAHL team. Didn't the PPE bring in 08 kids from Vengeance this year? Am I missing something, how does one go ahead and develop by playing PAHL and make the PPE when they are older? Just doesn't seem likely.

I think most were Renegades (maybe 2/3?) You can tell because the white helmet kids are the former Renegades, I think.

I don't think that is the reason. I think it has to do with most smaller organizations are the only game in town. Thus, the parent of a high level AA or AAA kid must decide if he or she wants to drive to another organization with a better team or not. Or stay put and have their kid dominate at A Major Black. This is usually the case in Squirts and to a lesser extent peewee.

Emark places plenty of kids in legit junior leagues. And at the 08 and 09 level the Vengeance is strong. When kids get to high school other forces come into play. The desire to play high school hockey, to go to homecoming and have a social life, maybe play another sport in addition to hockey. And oh yeah, it is much harder to make a U18 team. Two birth years on one team.

The tournament is probably cheaper. Ignoring hotel and travel.

I know this but people were talking about adding independent games on top of their PAHL schedule.

A few years ago my son's team moved down from AA. It was pretty straightforward. A minor team playing AA. Lost our goalie from the prior year and our best player from the year before. We were a shell of our former team. Another time we asked to moved down. Crickets. Had an unbelievably bad record. Surprisingly, no one (parents or kids) cared in the end. Where the placement process really fails is at Pee Wee A Major Black. Or at least it failed when my kids played there. Usually, there is one team that deserves to be AA and doesn't gete it. That team basically is unstoppable.

If you are playing an independent game, likely playing 15 minute periods. Will need two refs and an EMT. I may be off a bit but it is more than you think. I think most of the better AA teams play Silver Sticks, CCM and others. Also, probably play in the Harbor Center tournament and a Barons one. The local ones are the throw ins scheduled after fact.

Frankly, it doesn't make a difference to me if I drive two hours or four hours. If you are a decent AA team you can't just go to any tournament. You have to be picky. And you better schedule some independent games. 2 games per team at home. Guessing 700 a game. So, 1400 for a pair of games. Do this 3-5 times. Your regular PAHL team isn't doing this. To those that complain about the travel, you completely ignore that most/all of the parents enjoy it. And the parents that travel a lot are "hockey rich". Which is more wealthy than the average rich family. The other thing about playing a challenging schedule as a AA without travel is that a lot of ice is required. Looking at SHAHA 09, they are hosting teams but had to rent ice from Rostraver. Say you want to bring in 4 teams and offer every team 4 games, that is a lot of ice. Most teams that travel for independent games travel for a minimum of 2 but prefer 4 if it is

This is what I have heard. Esmark is all inclusive. I think the Pens does have a team fund to pay for the coaches travel.

The organization is growing. Sure they pulled kids from other organizations but they added teams. I agree LTP and ADM grows the game of hockey. I get it people want PAHL to be stronger but what people don't understand is that each year more and more parents chose to leave PAHL. That is issue.

I would rather play the same 3 teams 12 times and have competitive games. Than play 20 games and only have 4 that are competitive. Most of the my friends that have kids that play AA have moved organizations at least once. I think the way to save AA is to shrink it. Make it a big deal to play AA. People will drive it if the team is worth it.

People ignore the fact that this many parents are unhappy with PAHL. I know people want a legit AA division but we have too many teams trying to be AA. It might be better to have a limit of 4 AA teams and have one tryout and then take the top 60 kids and split it up evenly.

The Aviators do have a home rink. This is the second year they have played out of Alpha. I actually think they are growing. Did they go from 2 to 4 teams? The Huskies 07 team is stable. The kids and the parents like it. Each year a few leave and new kids come on board. Again, everyone is pretty happy from what I have heard. I actually think their fees are low. They just don't have the overhead that other organizations have.

agree.

Larger organizations usually have a AA team every year. And they make up probably 75 percent of the AA teams. Every so often you have smaller organization with a AA team. Huskies at 07 and Aviators have a strong 10 team. I don't think you realize how hard it is to get AAA, or even high level AA (talking top 10) teams, to come to Pittsburgh. Even the Pens have less than 10 home games is my guess. EVen the Vengeance at the younger birth years (08 and 09) which are strong teams play in Cleveland cause teams don't want to come all the way to Pittsburgh. Home games are a treat for AAA teams even if they are terrible. Sure you complain, but you also take it cause you saved a good amount of money.

PPE overall is on a different level but at some ages that is not the case. U18 Esmark is usually close enough to the PPE that they should play each other. Same goes for the Vengeance at some of the younger birth years (2008 and 2009). I disagree with the AA issue you raise. PAHL usually places teams in divisions based on previous years. So, if you were AA one year you will likely be AA the next. Even if you are lousy it is very hard to move down. Better chance of moving up than down. Everyone knows that the AA advertisement during tryouts is just a goal not a guarantee. If you don't you haven't done your homework and you deserve what you get. And you have to schedule games early. Everyone does it so it involves a certain amount of guess work. If you play an away game, for the most part home team doesn't care if you are good or bad cause they have a HOME game.

I think most of people complaining miss the point of playing AAA hockey. Kids play AAA hockey cause they want to play Junior hockey. Without junior hockey, you have a hard time making some ACHA club teams. Most of non traditional AAA teams or AA/AAA exist due to a heavily involved Dad who wants to be involved or have control.

The 06 Vengeance went 3-0 in Buffalo. 06 Preds went 1-2. 07 Shaha beat 07 Vengeance twice.

I think for the most part parents stay with their local rink for Mites and Squirts. By the time kids get to Peewee, parents are willing to drive their kids to a different rink. By the time you kids is a peewee, you know if a coach is any good, the team is ok, or whether or not you are getting the short end of the stick at tryouts. We live in the North Hills and we know countless people who go to the South Hills and vice versa.

It depends on your kids ability. If they are AA players, then you are team shopping and probably know which organization has the better core of kids and coach. If not then it is personal preference. And by personal preference, I mean cost, time to get there, how many slots a week, and whether or not there is a set practice time or not, friends, etc. The worst thing is having a practice with 5 kids there. So, we like teams that kids show up and take it seriously. Our kids every other year or so play at different organizations, which means we accept that they could be on the ice the same time at two different rinks. Our kids like hockey and don't do it casually so we are willing to arrange schedules to make it work.