No Politics

Most '08 tryouts start this week. Here are some. I'm not leaving anyone off intentionally -- these are just the ones I have -- and feel free to make corrections if anything is incorrect. Predators (AAA) start today (4/13). Sorry, but I have no information on the Predators. Arrows AA NB and Esmark AAA start tomorrow (4/14). Arrows had their free skate/clinic Thursday and had a great turnout (There is no doubt Lee Grafton runs a great program there). Someone else posted that there wasn't a good turnout for Esmark's free skate, but I am not able to confirm that personally. Vengeance AAA tryouts start Monday the 15th. I know families there, and it is a solid team with a lot of returning players. I know of quite a few other players who are trying to crack that lineup, though. This team seems to be a target of a lot of talented players. Huskies (no level designation, so assume A/possibly AA) start Tuesday the 16th. Huskies are a question mark because last year's tryouts went from "AA," to "let's try to cobble together an A team," to scrapping the whole thing. To be fair, that was last year, it was the first year of a major expansion, and they may have ironed out the kinks. Predators (AA/A) start 4/18. Again, no disrespect to the Predators organization... I simply don't know anyone there to share information. So lots of overlap there the first weekend. Families are going to have to choose one (or start one and switch to possibly one other if things don't look good). Next weekend North Pittsburgh (A through AA) start tryouts on 4/20. This is NP's normal tryout process. It is just earlier this year. Not much to share that we all don't already know (nothing good, nothing bad... they're just probably the largest program in the area, so everyone knows them). The Vengeance 16U NB (AA) team tryouts start 4/21. Being that this is the Renegades conversion, I don't have much information on this one (or the regular Vengeance/Renegades tryouts below). All I know is what others post here, and what I know from returning families (whose players ARE returning). There seems to be a big flap about the cost this season, though. Iceman (AA/AAA independent) and Aviators '08 BY start 4/22. The Icemen were a pretty solid team last year, and families I know there are planning on returning. They may pick up kids who were squeezed by the overlapping tryouts, but they are solid on their own. The knock on this -- and other similar programs -- is the independent schedule. You either like it or you don't. The Aviators are puzzling to me -- no disrespect meant -- because they played A Major Gold last year as a mixed-year team, and they lost 100% of their '08s from the previous season, so I don't know how they will have the numbers to form an '08 BY team (which are usually higher-level... you don't usually see an A-level BY team). At any rate, they are an option for families looking to play elsewhere, and they are now playing at McKnight Arena. Regular Vengeance 16U (A) start 4/25. As stated above, I have heard very little regarding the Vengeance. A-level Renegades players from last season -- and some others -- have told me they plan on trying out there, but I am not much help past that. Yetis (A/AA) start 4/26. I know multiple families from last year's team, and they were a higher-performing A Major Black team, but were (impressively) almost all '08s. So the Yetis have them advertised as National Bound/AA this upcoming season, depending on who comes back and who joins the mix. Any AA-level talent that got squeezed by the tryout jumble could land here if they want to stick with a PAHL schedule. They're the last tryout of the season, so any higher-level players who don't yet have a home will still have a strong option. I hope this helps folks!

Just as an FYI, the Yetis are looking to field a 16U National Bound team and are having two free pre-tryout sessions to any '08 or '09 skaters. Those dates are: 2:30p - 3:50p on Sunday 4/21 8:30p - 9:50p on Tuesday 4/23 The link to the Google form to sign up is HERE. On a side note, there is no overlap because they have the last tryouts locally (4/26 to 4/28). And I am just sharing this. Not looking to debate the organization, location, dates, coaches, etc. If you or someone you know can use it, great. If not, great.

Just as an FYI, the Yetis are looking to field a 16U National Bound team and are having two free pre-tryout sessions to any '08 or '09 skaters. Those dates are: 2:30p - 3:50p on Sunday 4/21 8:30p - 9:50p on Tuesday 4/23 The link to the Google form to sign up is HERE. On a side note, there is no overlap because they have the last tryouts locally (4/26 to 4/28). And I am just sharing this. Not looking to debate the organization, location, dates, coaches, etc. If you or someone you know can use it, great. If not, great.

Some of those 16U AA teams are not in that top bracket because of arrogance. I know some of the coaches, and they are doing the "are we A Major Black or AA" dance, and letting the scrimmage and placement results figure that out for them. They've been playing teams in the lower brackets for a feel, and have been honest about that. I know one of the teams in the "AA" bracket lost to a team in the second bracket by three goals this past week, and they were cool/genuine about it. On the flip side of that coin, I see some teams in lower brackets who sold themselves as AA programs during the tryout season. Now THAT'S something I have a problem with. If you sell yourself as an A Major team, and are wondering if you might be AA, great. If you sell yourself as a AA team, then go A Major... that's just crappy.

Good point. I wonder if that is why it seems so much darker in there.

My kids used to play there, and the only real complaint I ever had was the lighting. I don’t know why, but it always seems dim/darker in there. I think it may be due to the fact the ceiling isn’t white like other rinks. Not sure, though. They paved the lot nicely, and the steps everyone complains about are actually a cool, distinctive feature (except when they are icy! Ha ha).

No. I saw more than one '08 A Major and AA level kid outplay some kids on that list at the Varsity and JV level, and I saw '09 AA players outskate and dupe kids that made their list. I am not saying someone isn't worthy, I am not putting anyone down, and as I mentioned I really don't care. I am saying that it's more of the same old "this kid is better than someone else" position that says other kids who aren't invited (or don't care if they are invited) are somehow inferior, even if they play as well or better than the kids who are selected. If we are praising those kids who are selected, what does that say about the system when kids who aren't even considered shut them down during a JV game (as an example)? Catch my drift?

I don't know much about this, and really don't care to. What I will tell you is that I know some kids on those lists who were made to look stupid against some A Major and AA kids when they played against each other at Varsity/JV/Middle School this past season. I saw the shaming occur live with my own eyes, so that makes me question the whole process/purpose.

I know the Huskies are still taking players if you are close to there. Last I heard they were looking for 14U and 16U kids. I also know that the Yetis, Badgers, and NP just finished tryouts at 14U, so they may be looking, too. Just can't say for sure. NP probably not since they get a boatload at tryouts and rarely hold supplementals. 16U should still be going on.

Exactly. It's funny that we are all having productive discussions here, with each of us offering suggestions -- right or wrong -- as to what the problem may be. The more I read, however, the more I feel it's just a combination of everything. It's not just one reason. You guys are saying eleven declines is abnormal, but I know of at least three teams that had eight declines or more. I honestly don't know why. I agree that you normally see one or two declines on teams. We are seeing crazy declines, movement like we've never seen, and supplementals after supplementals because of it. I can say it's sad, though, because it's the good kids and their families who ultimately suffer.

All good points folks, and totally valid. I enjoyed watching tryouts, never once yelled at any of my kids, and never accosted/yelled at any evaluators. So my take was coming from that perspective. I totally see where you all are coming from, though, and appreciate it.

After watching this tryout season debacle from so many angles and age groups, I have what I think may be a HUGE reason behind the craziness: A few years ago only a couple organizations -- mainly AAA -- had CLOSED TRYOUTS. Now everyone closes tryouts, and I think THAT is a large part of the problem (at least at the A-level). I get the reasoning behind it: "We don't want to deal with the parents saying 'my Bobby was better than that other kid who was selected!', so let's keep the parents out." BUT think of it from the other perspective: If parents can't see in that rink, they are blindly following either the word of an organization that will say anything to keep their kids, or their kid themself (and we know how objective THEY are). The parents don't know how many players actually tried out, they don't know the skill level of the kids who tried out, and they are always second-guessing themselves. And yes, A-level parents, too. So no one knows if they are safe, and keep moving on. Everything is fluid, and parents are glad to eat a commitment fee to ensure their player is on a solid team. My guess is that there are still a lot of orphans out there, so I agree with the poster who said it may make sense to start a thread for orphan players looking for homes. I still get contacted (just got two more today) from panicked parents asking me if I knew where their kid could play. In my opinion, closed tryouts are freaking stupid to the Nth degree. If you are who you say you are, what do you have to hide?

Question: I didn't pay close enough attention over the years, but does anyone else have an idea how many AAA/AA programs there are now compared to five, ten, or twenty years ago? My gut feeling is that there are a lot more, but I am not sure.

Zam, you're right, and I think we need to make a distinction that what we are saying is not to be applied to every player. Yes, there are kids who want to play AAA/AA for that extra level of competitiveness. But what happens when those kids who are "just as happy skipping practices to play basketball or video games" are on the same team as that ultra-competitive kid? The same thing you described that happens at the A-level. That's why I made the point about supplementals at the AAA/AA levels. Who are they getting? So I feel the "bashing" we hear on this board isn't for every player playing at those levels. It's for the parents and the programs that water down everything in the area by pumping up kids who would be better served staying at the lower levels and properly developing.

I'd rather not name names. I will tell you that just off the top of my head I know of FIVE programs that accepted lesser talent to fill out AAA/AA teams. AAA and AA supplementals? And I say "I know" because I know the players, and their parents told me where they ended up.

It would be exciting IF those Tier 2 teams are really Tier 2 teams. Based off of what I saw, I seriously doubt that. I personally know some kids who I would honestly assess as A Minor Black or maybe A Major White players who made "AA" teams. I think in five years there won't be anymore A-level hockey. Kids will go straight from B to AA so parents can (pay to) gloat about how wonderful their kid is, and teams will be glad to take their money to apply that label. I used to LOVE it when my A Major kids would go to a summer pick-up game, and other parents would rave about their AAA/AA player and how great their team would be. Then my "inferior" kids would go out there and make them look stupid. AND... once the season started, my kids would be out there on regular shifts in all phases of the game, and their kids would sit on the bench. Sorry if I sound salty. This tryout season really has my head ready to explode from the sheer insanity. As someone who loves the game of hockey, I just don't get it.

I don't know of any '07 BY supplementals, but I do know that NP (as Saucy said), Badgers, and the Yetis still have tryouts within the next week.

Zam, I agree with part, and disagree with part. I think there are a good number of players/families who are either loyal or who WANT to stay loyal. But there are other families/players who do look out for their own interests. Those are the kids who leave teams in shambles, and then the loyal families have to scramble to find homes. I see that every year. That's why I am no longer critical of families who have been at five different organizations, etc. Anymore you aren't able to tell if it is the family's fault or just circumstances (even five-plus times). It's really, really sad.

I also just heard that the Huskies '08 BY team is holding supplementals next Sunday at 10:00am. They have information on the Pittsburgh Ice Arena page. And every time you hear of multiple supplementals in the same area, do you ever think "why don't they just combine teams?", or is that just me? Ha ha.

Some info for '08 parents out there. There are also 16U programs out there with tryouts/supplementals coming up, but this is for '08s only. I am working with about a dozen different '08 families right now, so I probably have the most info about them (followed by '09s -- total mess right now -- and '07s). I will try posting those separately along with the mixed-year options. Please feel free to add information from other programs or these, and please keep everything positive. Remember: for THE KIDS, not revenge, etc. And one last note: Parents, this tryout season has been nuts, but if you and your children are unwilling to say "this team feels right" and to stay there, you're adding to the problem. You're running out of BY and AAA/AA options, so maybe that will chill everything out for everyone! '08 Huskies - '08 Huskies are holding tryouts tomorrow morning (10:00am) at PIA. This may be a great opportunity for families of higher-level players (A Major and up), as I was told this is the third of three tryouts, and the AA team they thought they could place may be in question because a few players made Vengeance, Icemen, and Renegades AAA/AA teams and went there instead. - I was also told some other parents were spooked by the Huskies initial push to make this team AHF only (no PAHL). However, players and parents were told that they are planning to play a modified PAHL/AHF schedule with showcases as we are seeing with other programs. - I will say that it is my impression that the Huskies haven't been able to make the transition happen very smoothly at that rink yet. Their website is down (horrible timing, right?) and you have to use the PIA site to register, for example. So since it's tomorrow morning, I was told just show up if you can't register in time. If I was a higher-level '08 parent, I'd go if I lived close enough and had the time. Seems like a very viable opportunity to consolidate some orphans in that area, and I think they'll work out the kinks. And with those existing kinks, it may open up a lot of ice time and attention to this team's players. '08 Vipers Stars - '08 Vipers Stars are holding supplemental tryouts Monday, April 24th at 8:00pm at Alpha. From what I've been told, they had the same thing happen as I mentioned happened to the Huskies. They had a decent team, but then the AAA/AA tryouts elsewhere pecked away at their team. They are looking to fill those newly created gaps. - I personally spoke with three parents who said their kids really liked the head coach, and decided to stay for that reason. I heard from Alpha folks that this team is set to play out of Shadyside Academy, so keep that in mind. That rink is VERY nice, but can be hard to access. And given that it is a private rink, ice times may be sketchy. Again, though, it could be great for local orphans, and parents with experience with the new coach are upbeat about the possibilities. '08 Badgers - '08 Badgers start Monday the 24th (6:30pm) and run through Tuesday (7:00pm) according to their website. The tryouts are at Palmer (Delmont), and tryouts are still open. Sorry, but no parents have shared any information about these tryouts (probably because they haven't started!).

I am not able to speak for others, but I know what I know because I've been around so long and know so many families who share information with me. Too many tryouts are blacked out (silly in my opinion), so it's hard to know how many kids were there, what they looked like, etc. That's how I knew there were over forty kids at some tryouts and less than ten at others.

I am helping a couple families with 14U girls, but I’m out of my element. I only saw NP, the Huskies, and the Badgers having regular, non-NB programs for girls. I hope I am missing some.

I've seen a lot of talk about tryout/AA/AAA craziness in other posts, and I can attest that it's WAY worse than past years. Every year I help families track tryouts, and this year it's a mess. Like others have said, some programs are being left, others are being overwhelmed, AAA kids are going AA, etc. We've read enough about the AAA problems, but I have heard of (and witnessed) multiple AA tryouts with over forty skaters. And I have also witnessed regular A-level tryouts with less than ten. This is beyond sad, because it is the kids who suffer. I mean, where does the A Major Black kid go who knows -- and whose family knows -- he is A Major Black? This year? The tryout with four kids and a goalie. We know what's going to happen when all these AAA/AA tryouts end. It's already started -- SUPPLEMENTALS and tons of orphan players. I feel bad for the level-headed families who are ultimately left out in the dark, so I thought we could all come together on this site and post UNBIASED supplemental information and team overviews (this team needs forwards, this team needs two D and a goalie, etc.). Not to poke fun, not to say "serves them right," but for the kids who are in danger of losing one season of what we all know is a VERY short, VERY fast youth career. I personally don't like some programs, but I will still post what they offer if I find it. Again, it's for the kids. I am a North Hills guy, so I'm limited to mostly northern information, and I don't have info on all the northern programs. I've also been helping '07 to '09 kids this season, so I'm limited there. So please jump in if you have anything (especially in the south and other age groups). I think it would make more sense to have separate topics for different age groups (18U, etc.), too. Can we do this?

RJ, I have NEVER seen movement like this year. Teams from last year who were struggling to field a AA team now have over forty kids going out for them, and other teams are simply folding because they get ten kids coming out to tryouts. I think parents' heads are just spinning from all the gamesmanship from the programs. You already mentioned the AAA chaos, and I think a lot of that has to do with kids leaving AAA programs for AA programs. There's a trickle-down effect. There has to be a better system than what we have. It's the kids who are hurt every year, and it's not always the fault of the parents trying to find that extra A. I hope programs and parents use this board as a CONSTRUCTIVE way to find a home for these orphan kids.

Huskies 15U are AHF, too, according to their website.