Saucey

Yep. And acha gets harder to play as the dreamers who played Tier III juniors take all the spots on the high level club teams I really don't think that is a good way to spend money.

Please, you have been reading and posting non stop on this Board for over a year now! I feel confident that you know by now the reasons people feel AA has tanked around here! Your desire to be a cheerleader for local hockey is duly noted! You are great at it! Keep cheering on those grandkids!

I agree that is what frequently happens, but this year the level of play is such that most teams may be competitive with each other with only a few outliers. It's early, but if you dig through pre season PAHL game scores, there aren't a lot of lopsided ones. It's just not AA hockey anymore. People were very defensive when I said so last year, but the hockey I watched at Mid Ams, although close games, was ....not good. And the winner of Mid Ams got creamed at Nationals.There was little hitting, a lack of hockey IQ and individual skills on display were wanting. Within just a few years of my oldest playing, I can't believe how bad it's become. PIHL is going to be the same way. Doing well locally made not be a great guage of your team. Tournament competition will give a better idea.

A low 2007 BY and an exodus to AAA and there are 11 16u AA teams. 😄 Wow, the level of play got significantly better overnight around here.

Oh that is malarkey. Give me a break. I don't buy this narrative. Maybe a coach pulls a team out of disgust with PAHL, but Mom and dad pull their kid because their kid didn't make AA or to chase the extra A or to follow the kids on that team. If PAHL made a bunch of changes....the disgruntled and disillusioned would still leave. It's done. The cat is out of the bag. No matter what PAHL does, people will move their kids to chase. They do it once....and they never stop. That isn't to say that there isn't room to improve or change. Change needs to happen above PAHL. I think this area needs some rules that make it harder to jump ship every season. But the same people moaning about PAHL will say....oh, no, we need our freedom of choice. I think there is no pleasing people in this area.Dsmned if you do, damned if you don't.

Shocking. aAA kids that don't stand out....

I didn't know that. What schools do you know of that are on this wait list?

For some reason, there is never much fanfare regarding this tournament, info usually comes out later. Since teams are just getting their feet wet, I don't think this is a bad thing. I think the only game that is ever live streamed is the Championship. Check the Pa Hockey website for that information.

I actually don't care at all and this is the only comment that I made. Talking about bad teams at the younger levels.... it's always been that way, just didn't think that point added much to the discussion.

Since when did Esmark ever field good teams at any level other than 16u or 18u? This is a silly argument. I think people are more willing to let their kids play out of PIA when they don't have to drive them there.

That happens all the time anyway. Reffing is not great here.

I hear ya. Then don't have a AA designation. Isn't that what PAHL is moving to anyway? Force all the AA kids to play an independent schedule.

What does that have to do with the teams coming up? I don't see any teams coming up that are anywhere near as good as that Renegades team was. Or tell me which team you think is going to be equivalent. Look at 14u last season. There were a couple of teams at MidAms battling it out. The winner....got their clocks...cleaned...at Nationals. I am not trying to be nasty or negative. I watched a bit of some of those MidAm games and I didn't think I was watching very good hockey. It is a fact that 07BY is very low. And yes, never been overly impressed with what I have seen with the 08s. The dilution to go play AAA coming home to roost. PAHL may be competitive with each other, which don't get me wrong, is good. But 16uAA is supposed to be the big year. I am ok with being wrong. I want Western Pa to be competitive on the national scene. Again, ok with being wrong. Just don't see it at the moment. Someone mentioned Rebellion being really good. Where did their influx of players come from? Did they get all the SHAHA 07s? Don't forget, the Renegades team was largely able to stay together with few roster changes for years. That does mean something. That never happens in PAHL these days.

I don't think that will elevate the landscape that much. We will see. Would be nice to not have whoever goes to Nationals not get their clocks cleaned.

Really? Was there a big influx of 07s into PAHL? It is usually pretty bad.

Middle school hockey is just terrible in general. Don't forget the differenced in growth and age. And even AAA players don't match well against older players, even when the older player may play a lower level. And who knows, maybe you were looking at those faux AAA players too.

Actually, I know that gentleman, if he is involved all I can say is, RUN AWAY and do it fast lol.

To be fair, what low level team sells enough tickets to cover expenditures?

They were looking for people to try out a few days ago

I don't know but I do know there was talk about pulling up some of the 16u AAA players to play, so maybe they ended up with not enough to players

18uAA is always a bit of a crap shoot. 05 was a very low BY and some of those kids are going to college. Some choose to exit the sport. Some are tired of the grind that they have had since they were six and just play school. This is nothing new.

@Spear and Magic Helmet I don't think letting more teams into AA is a great answer. Then you aren't addressing the issue the independent teams complain of with the competition. And it's miserable to play blow out games for the kids, no matter which side of the score sheet you are on. That's terrible if you care about development. I don't think that is accurate, that the top A team could always be AA. Sometimes a placement was wrong, but more often than not, that team still gets killed by the better AA teams. Remember, AA is diluted. So you are right, that top team may compete with some of the AA teams, but then...where do you draw the line?

Honestly, the AA team you just described may compete perfectly fine in PAHL. Just not beyond that. It's that diluted. But I hear you. Maybe they won't place in AA. I don't know about that with closed try outs. Maybe you have a point. But kids seem to relax and play better without parents watching. I have never watched my kid try out, so I don't quite relate to this need. Do you really think a parent who has never played hockey before really needs to be in there to then crap all over the try out process? Parents are truly just awful these days. It's not everyone, but enough made that bed with behavior and are working to have it so that they can't watch games either. I don't have much sympathy on that. These are volunteers you are abusing. Working g on no refs too.

I think parents and all these AAA options have created this try out monster, quite frankly, and it is not quite fair to blame organizations. What do you really want them to do? If the goal is to put together a National bound team and it was advertised as such, then that has to be the goal, to win. But....you do need to cast a side eye at someone who has...tried out every year and never accepted a spot on your one team. Or not played AA for years. F those kids, I don't care how good they are, they never stay and you then annoy your long time family who frequently walks away. Stuff like that. It's hard to know what people's intentions are. No one can read minds. But those ones are easy red flags. Maybe make a call first to those players, ask if they are going accept the spot before you announce the team. It's a lot of work. You hear conflicting complaints on this thread.....that loyalty is not rewarded. That spots should not be offered to AAA kids. Then you hear complaints that teams are hand picked and try outs aren't fair. Well, if you are rewarding loyalty rather than picking the best that came to try out, then yes, they are hand picked. And the team that goes to Nationals should be good, otherwise they are going to get their butts handed to them in Nationals. It is very possible around here that Mid Am teams won't be able to hang at Nationals with how bad AA is becoming. Look at Nationals results from 14u last year. And....you would be hard pressed to find any organization in Pittsburgh that doesn't already have an idea of who they want. You are usually trying out for a few spots if you are an unknown to an organization, so you better be good and stand out, because bubble players are interchangeable with many other players, usually, and quite frankly, those spots should be offered to the family that has stayed with the organization. When close, tie goes to the loyal. It just should, because again, you risk that unknown player walking AND you lose the long time player. It causes lots of damage. In an ideal world, you only go to try outs where you want to play for that team. But....if the try out for the team you really want is far away, I know people use tryouts to keep their kid on the ice. If you don't, then they don't look as good as the kids who were doing this. It is sometimes really hard to find ways to keep on the once the season ends, particularly as your kid gets older. And not everyone can afford to pay for privates. I think the organizations really struggle to field appropriate AA teams and it is a multi faceted problem. For the first time ever, my family chose not to play on the lowly A team when not offered a spot on the top team at an organization. It used to be that your kid could develop on those teams and I would say you should take that spot and not be offended. But everything is so diluted, that this thought is no longer the case. The drop is sometimes huge between the top teams and the next team down. So no....not paying thousands of dollars for that. Hockey isn't just for fun. It also has to be for development. Winning comes after development, but it has to be there and appropriate for your player. Otherwise just save your dollars for when they can play beer league. PAHL is headed to no AA, quite frankly. The independent teams are going to start winning Mid Ams.

I would contact the director of hockey development at organizations to see if there are any openings or get on their radar when there are. Kids tend to leave or decline spots or get hurt, leaving a spot. I would contact bigger organizations rather than ones putting anyone on a team regardless of skill. That isn't good if you care anything about development.