nemesis8679

People love to bitch about parent coaches. What I'd love to see is non-parent boards.

So that's that, then? Montour is out and everything proceeds as normal?

They're also arguing that this transfer stuff doesn't count because he was middle school going to high school. Where in the rules do they differentiate that? They pretty much just made that up on their own.

Who cares when they got caught, the fact is they did get caught. They're so-called "exhibit a" doesn't show anything, other than state they have one goalie between 2 teams, and ask Mucha if should they cut back to just having a varsity team or try to find another kid who plays that doesn't have a school team of his own and do a co-op (and what would be necessary to do that). Mucha looks to have replied that he talked to person A, and person A said Montour should talk to person B. And they could discuss these options ON THE PHONE. As in, it's not in writing. Nowhere is this kid or option mentioned in that correspondence they included. I'll assume this was the "evidence" brought forth at the PIHL hearing, and PIHL told them to get bent. Otherwise if they had any evidence it would be in this court document, and not this lame excuse for evidence. If Mucha did okay it- disregarding that it's not his responsibility but the responsibility of the rules interpreter- where's the proof that whatever they told him was actually the whole truth? And the "signed roster" that certifies everything is A-OK was signed by the SCHOOL A.D., who like most school A.D.'s probably pays as much attention to what the hockey team is doing as they do to what the homecoming parade committee is doing. Probably less. He signed whatever the board put in front of him. All that paper says is the player requirements required BY THE SCHOOL have been met. There is nothing on there that says one word about PIHL requirements, nor did anyone from PIHL sign that roster. Like I said before, I do feel bad for those kids. I doubt it was the players that put this scheme together. But I would feel bad for kids who missed the playoffs over a team cheating, too.

This is hilarious.

I see that part. But what about the team who followed the rules that would've been in the playoffs if the ineligible kid hadn't played and Montour had to go with a goalie who-no other way to say it- isn't as good and probably wouldn't have won enough games to make the playoffs? So screw that whole team that played within the rules because the 14 year-old "just wanted to play"? Again: Follow the rules. Don't be sneaky. If you can't do that, then don't get unraveled when it bites you in the ass.

On one hand, I doubt this elite 9th grade goalie is Patrick Roy. So just make the kid ineligible for playoffs, and play on, right? "Don't screw the other kids over what the coach/manager/board did." Right? But it doesn't work that way. Rules are the rules, the league goes over them, they are written down clearly, you can access them. You can ask questions if you're confused. So there's no excuse, really. Conveniently, permission was alleged to have been given by the now-deceased leader of PIHL. Where is it in writing? No matter how old or backward or low-tech you might think this man was, I'm sure they didn't ask him at the rink if this was okay, and he nodded his head "oh, yes", and that was that. Surely there would've been a letter or email in writing. And if it really did go that way, then again shame on the coach/manager/board for not seeing that it was given in writing. And why is it the responsibility of other teams to point this error out on some kind of a time line? It's not. If whoever knew about it and waited until the time was right FOR THEM, frankly that's good managing and/or good coaching that would do that. Why on earth would another team point this error out early so it could be reconciled by PIHL/Montour before it became a serious issue? Why would you expect a rival team to help a cheater? Stop misplacing blame on to other teams, and direct your anger at the parties responsible for the situation you're in. That's the Montour coaches, manager, and board. Whining about the other teams that knew about it and let it go until now just makes everyone look like crybabies. Cheating crybabies, actually.

Yeah, probably not.

I don't know, I appreciate Danner's insights. As well as yours.

I'd sure as shit drive to PIA before signing up and paying for North Catholic and Excel. But then you don't get the cool logo to stick on your car.

That 100% happened.

I like the trick where they try to schedule them on the same days as their competition.

I would like to know where excel and having to have a catholic education fit in to devoloping a good hockey player? Couldn't just be the money, could it?

With hockey advancement being so convoluted and confusing to most people, they have the rink and the logo. That's all they need to get the money. Unfortunately. Do you think a parent with the funds would want to go watch games at the Lemieux Center, or at shitty, dirty PIA? What sounds better to a kid- you can play for Pittsburgh Penguins ELITE, or you can play for Esmark Stars? Do you think even HALF of the parents or kids know what teams are ranked where, against their local choices of teams? I doubt it. The fancy, comfortable rink and the beautiful, well-known logo are formidable opponents for the competition.

Too be honest, maybe having BB employees in charge will clean up that garbage organization and the homer refs will be reigned in.

Not unless new people take over. That's just how things are.

Honestly, I'm usually against corporate takeovers of any small businesses. Whether it's local hardware stores or ice rinks. But at the same time; between dad coaches, mom and dad boards, dilapidated facilities, questionable marketing, and a multitude of other things, I can see kids and families that age out before Black Bear completely takes over saying to themselves, "Wow, I sure wish we had this situation then like what these people have now". I'm sure BB will have their own problems, but on the whole it could be a big win for everybody.

Your point?

That sounds like an absolutely ridiculous situation, and with no penalty called on the coach or an ejection, how do you even have a hearing against him?? Let alone a a 10 games? For what, yelling?

Submit it to MidAm, where the person in charge will make sure it winds up in the garbage because its the Badgers? I can't think of a bigger garbage organization in PAHL than the Badgers. From top to bottom.

But what would a real counter proposal look like? One that they'd take seriously? Sounds like their mind was made up, a "counter proposal" being a symbolic courtesy so they could frame this as a "negotiation" of some sort, where none ever really existed. You're using their building/ice. They want your org- where your kids play, where there's probably some memories/feelings for the org, and where if you leave they can still sell those slots to someone. Sounds like you had nothing to negotiate, and they knew it. Because it's the same situation everywhere, and they have the upper hand every time. I wonder how long it'll take before logos and names are changed as well. Maybe a season or two.

What are the "negotiations" like? It sounds like... Black Bear: Give us your non-profit youth org- which you, as a non-profit will get nothing in return for. Youth hockey org: Well, that doesn't sound like a good thing to us... Black Bear: Okay, we won't sell you ice time at any of our arenas, so you either find another rink with ice available (good luck), or sign ownership over to us. Youth hockey org: (picks up pen and sighs) Okay, where do we sign? Volunteer parents on a hockey board don't stand a chance negotiating anything with a maximize-profit-at-all-costs corporate board of directors. Unless some of the parents are attorneys or MBA's. These people you're "negotiating" against know how to this, and have done many times. They're experts in it.

So everyone knew they would end up doing that, but it's still pretty shitty. So do they somehow own the Huskies org? Or how did they choose who is getting ice or not?

Same to you

It is the most convoluted way possible. Look how many undrafted players end up making a team eventually compared to other sports.