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You are right on here Saucey! Most people don't realize how quickly it will be over when they are in the moment. I've seen it from a PAHL schedule and an independent schedule. The travel and hotel costs are not worth the extra expense when the teams you are playing are not any better than the PAHL teams you could have played within an hour of home. I like the PAHL schedule with 4 out of town tournaments.

I don't want to see PAHL cater to something that isn't a good way to develop. Parents dictating structure based on ignorance and dad's ego is not good for hockey around here. Maybe there needs to be more of an outreach to educate younger parents. PAHL can do that. PAHL organizations can do that. Neither of my boys played in that minor BY model. They either played up or in A minor. That stigma associated with playing A minor in your rising year is a new phenomena, and it's not good. When my boys came up, it was normal to be on team 2 or 3 every other year and AA major your second year. You had to be really good, or born in a low BY to play AA both years. The kids I see coming out of that minor year are timid with checking. PAHL created that level to make it safer to check and it seems to just delay the learning process. Making choices on where to play and levels based on theoretical kids you want to recruit the next season is terrible. What does that say about what those coaches think of the kids that they have? They are wanting to cut kids on their current roster. Great way to spend your time and money, folks. Serve your current players in the season you are in. Develop what you have over wishing for something different. My boys were not always top players.They play for an organization who develops. They have had good and bad coaches, winning and losing seasons.. They've had some private instruction in the off season. They are naturally good athletes. They love it. Let them play where they fall, let them develop. Kids grow and change. They play in divisions with a lot of bad teams. They continue to get better. I don't think you are going to see change with PAHL going to BY. It all starts to wind down at midget, folks. Enjoy the moment. All that chasing chasing chasing...I am on the back end of watching people do that. I don't see those kids who are running around with these independent teams becoming significantly better hockey players. That has to be PAHL's end game. Not stroking parents. Develop the players.

I think they might be. Either preds or Esmark depending on where you live. I don't think vengeance take pens cuts or they would be going there too.

I'm just throwing some ideas around. I thought that was the point of this forum. And I'm not talking about one or two teams. I'm talking about the entire landscape of PAHL and trends I'm seeing. I'd rather adapt than shout at the wind (BY teams) and ask it to change directions. Thanks to everyone for helping me think through this issue. Some good thoughts in here.

Problem becomes the AA. Too many parents feel it is beneath their kids to play A. By playing independent you can hid a weak BY team with a weak schedule and still call it AA. Some come back to PAHL but most don't.

Pens cuts go where ever they want. Don't think most organizations turn them away.

I mean, kids being cut from Pens are not like...hmmm...where can I play next....ooooo, the Preds have a BY team, let me go there!

I'm not sure specifically about the Preds but I believe $500ish is fairly common.

Hmmm... Predator fees for birth year teams are mysteriously higher than mixed birth year teams. And on top of season fees you get a bonus fee for coaching. At least you and your kid will feel special. Kind of makes you wonder who the real predator is here.

This is pretty much what this whole post is calling for. Creating a whole new AA division, specially catered to 1-2 teams because mommy and daddy can bear to have their kid not called AA for a season. Listen, if you’re that worried that your kid as a 11 year old can’t even share the same sheet of ice with a 12 year old, regardless of level, that’s a big problem. Regardless if programs want to go full independent to avoid it, that’s their choice. An expensive and busy one but who cares from anyone in the league or not on the predators pee wee team. We’ve given about 100 scenarios why it’s generally a bad idea and what might work but RJ only will accept the creation of a new division to cater to one team, allegedly in the name of saving pahl hockey.

No, only those minor BY teams that want to pursue playing at AA. In this scenario if you are a pure minor BY but are not AA then play at A major, etc. There would still be a placement process for those teams with what I proposed above.

In this scenario would it mean that ALL minor pure BY teams would be obligated to play in the AA Minor division? What happens if the team is weak? Seeing that in a couple of cases so far this year....

This 100% correct, not every division should have BY, but having ONLY AA Major and AA Minor from 10U up should help to mitigate the number of teams making the choice to go independent. Everything below AA would still be mixed BY. This would also give minor kids something to work towards when trying out if it is a "deep" organization where a talented minor player wouldn't get a shot at the major team due to a factor such as size. Just a thought.

There are approximately 8 organizations that I can see supporting BY teams. Hornets / N. Pitt / SHAHA / Preds / SCIR / S. Pitt / Allegheny / Foxes That said, it would be really hard to have 8 organizations with BY teams without wondering how it compromises the rest of the organizations and also teams within their divisions. I think it would be great for the organizations involved but also cause a massive competitive imbalance throughout the rest of the league that would be playing mixed BY. You would have teams like Cambria and Westmoreland fielding teams with their top players playing against the essential “team 3”s from the larger orgs. As I stated before, many of the teams on the outer regions of the PAHL jurisdiction already have 3-4 players per team playing a few divisions below their talent level. On the other hand, the better “known quantity” tournaments in the country (CCM, Superseries etc…) are all trending toward birth year divisions. The mixed BY tournaments like MYHockey etc. are such a crap shoot with lopsided and mismatched divisions way too often. it’s a tough call in a day and age where even everyone A Major and above are supplementing their PAHL schedule with teams from Ohio, NY etc.. and birth year being a factor in scheduling those games. I only have ideas but can’t form a perfect solution as of yet.