RJUSHL Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 These are the current Bantam Major AA PAHL teams: Allegheny Renegades North Pitt South Pitt Preds Lebo Lawrence SHAHA They are all 2009 teams except Lawrence and SHAHA. But those teams really aren't AA teams so their plans for next year really aren't that relevant to this discussion. I'm sure they'll both filter into an A Major PAHL division. But what are the plans for the remaining 2009 AA teams? It's unlikely that the top four teams (Allegheny, SCIR, North Pitt, South Pitt) play in 16U AA against mostly 2008 teams or play in an A Major division that doesn't fit their skill. Is PAHL destroying itself from within by not offering more AA Minor divisions? I can't see any of those top four teams playing PAHL next year. Two other interesting and very good 2009 AA teams are Icemen and Mid-State. I'm sure the Mustangs will continue with their very reasonable independent schedule. Icemen played AHF last year. Will they go Tier 1 this upcoming season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Even if PAHL created a 16U AA Minor division, would there be enough teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Also, there are some ‘08 teams holding their own in 16uAA this year, what makes you say the top ‘09 teams won’t play AA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, HereForTheChirps said: Even if PAHL created a 16U AA Minor division, would there be enough teams? You'd probably have 7 or 8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, RJUSHL said: You'd probably have 7 or 8? Based on your previous post where the bottom 2 of 8 were off the list, who do you see adding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, HereForTheChirps said: Also, there are some ‘08 teams holding their own in 16uAA this year, what makes you say the top ‘09 teams won’t play AA? I believe there are only two 08 teams playing 16U AA this year. SCIR is doing well but the 08 Allegheny team is getting killed. Just from talking to two or three parents on these 09 AA teams, most aren't sure what to do. But almost all of them say that PAHL really isn't a viable option for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, HereForTheChirps said: Based on your previous post where the bottom 2 of 8 were off the list, who do you see adding? Who knows? A lot of 09 teams could improve and move up to AA. Foxes, Aviators, Yetis, etc. Do you think a AA Minor division is a bad idea? Is it in the best interest of PAHL to create one and avoid losing three or four good 09 AA teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, RJUSHL said: Who knows? A lot of 09 teams could improve and move up to AA. Foxes, Aviators, Yetis, etc. Do you think a AA Minor division is a bad idea? Is it in the best interest of PAHL to create one and avoid losing three or four good 09 AA teams? You are asking PAHL to be forward thinking! I would be shocked if that happens! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, RJUSHL said: Who knows? A lot of 09 teams could improve and move up to AA. Foxes, Aviators, Yetis, etc. Do you think a AA Minor division is a bad idea? Is it in the best interest of PAHL to create one and avoid losing three or four good 09 AA teams? I think it is a great idea if there are enough teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sample39 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 USA Hockey doesn't recognize 15U as a division under Tier 2, which is why you haven't seen a PAHL division for it yet. There are a couple of different approaches to this. You can play up in AA as the minor birth year for the sake of greater competition but at the cost of winning. I believe the Huskies did this last year. Or you can play one year in Major Black and continue the build towards AA for the following season. I believe the Hornets did this last year. Both teams have similar records in 16AA this year. So I would hesitate to say one route is better than the other. It's more about what makes most sense for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, sample39 said: USA Hockey doesn't recognize 15U as a division under Tier 2, which is why you haven't seen a PAHL division for it yet. There are a couple of different approaches to this. You can play up in AA as the minor birth year for the sake of greater competition but at the cost of winning. I believe the Huskies did this last year. Or you can play one year in Major Black and continue the build towards AA for the following season. I believe the Hornets did this last year. Both teams have similar records in 16AA this year. So I would hesitate to say one route is better than the other. It's more about what makes most sense for the team. Entering good tournaments, playing a solid independent schedule makes up for a lot of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarampage Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Once they get to the 15U/16U age, it doesn't really matter as much, IMO. The gap in maturity has decreased..some of these kids are are playing PIHL Varsity against 18 year olds by this time. BY teams for Tier II don't make a lot of sense to me...put the best kids on the 16U AA team regardless of whether they are a 2008 or 2009. If you adhere strictly to the BY model, the organization's 16U AA will be weaker and if you have kids play up on the 16s, the 15s will be weaker. Until USA Hockey recognizes Tier II 15U, I don't see the point. When my son was a PeeWee, I thought it was preferable, but as the years went on and seeing him play PAHL16U AA , 18U AA and PIHL AAA, I started to think differently. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 42 minutes ago, sarampage said: Once they get to the 15U/16U age, it doesn't really matter as much, IMO. The gap in maturity has decreased..some of these kids are are playing PIHL Varsity against 18 year olds by this time. BY teams for Tier II don't make a lot of sense to me...put the best kids on the 16U AA team regardless of whether they are a 2008 or 2009. If you adhere strictly to the BY model, the organization's 16U AA will be weaker and if you have kids play up on the 16s, the 15s will be weaker. Until USA Hockey recognizes Tier II 15U, I don't see the point. When my son was a PeeWee, I thought it was preferable, but as the years went on and seeing him play PAHL16U AA , 18U AA and PIHL AAA, I started to think differently. A lot of the best tournaments and showcases are birth year based. That's true for both AAA and AA. Really makes no difference what USA hockey recognizes or not. The top organizations create birth year teams because that's where the demand is. But then PAHL refuses to adapt their divisions and pointlessly digs in their heals as teams continue leave for 13U and 15U AA divisions in the AHF or play a completely independent schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 (edited) I'll be surprised if a single one of those top four teams I mentioned play PAHL next year. If they do, they're going to lose their best players to the teams that don't. It doesn't have to be this way. It's an easy change that PAHL could make. Edited February 8 by RJUSHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Looking at the scores and competition from the AHF, I don't think it makes any sense to travel across the state to play in that league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedandconfused Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 RJ's been an AHF and THF Cheerleader since day one. I'm sure his 4th place team will fit very nicely in the AHF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I can say I'd much rather get my teeth kicked in locally at 16U AA and build towards the 16U major year instead of traveling 5 hours to play mediocre competition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarampage Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, RJUSHL said: A lot of the best tournaments and showcases are birth year based. That's true for both AAA and AA. Really makes no difference what USA hockey recognizes or not. The top organizations create birth year teams because that's where the demand is. But then PAHL refuses to adapt their divisions and pointlessly digs in their heals as teams continue leave for 13U and 15U AA divisions in the AHF or play a completely independent schedule. I know there's a demand for it, which is why organizations and some leagues are accommodating, but if the goal is to go to USA Hockey Nationals, Tier II 15U teams will be playing 16U anyways, so why not put together the strongest team consisting of 08/09s? One of my son's teams went to Nationals at 16U and they had a few minor BY players on their team...it made them stronger and without them, they may not have won Districts. I understand the argument for 15U teams and Showcases, tournaments, etc. but in end, they're playing 16U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, dazedandconfused said: RJ's been an AHF and THF Cheerleader since day one. I'm sure his 4th place team will fit very nicely in the AHF. False. I think the AHF and Black Bears takeover of hockey is a bad thing. It would be in everybody’s best interest if PAHL could get out of their own way and adapt. Hockey is better than ever in Pittsburgh. Yes, ever. But PAHL hasn’t been able to keep up with the changing dynamics of hockey in the region. They left the door open for Black Bear leagues. That’s a problem and families pay the price. Edited February 8 by RJUSHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyFan6687 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 How many of those four top teams will take a hit when Esmark swoops in and takes their picks for their AAA 09 team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedandconfused Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 52 minutes ago, RJUSHL said: That’s a problem and families pay the price. The horror they must be suffering by everyone they know not knowing precious little Clayton's goals and assist totals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 27 minutes ago, HockeyFan6687 said: How many of those four top teams will take a hit when Esmark swoops in and takes their picks for their AAA 09 team? I think each team may lose a few. I don’t think any one team will be decimated. I think Icemen and Mid-State will also contribute some players to the Esmark cause as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, sarampage said: When my son was a PeeWee, I thought it was preferable, but as the years went on and seeing him play PAHL16U AA , 18U AA and PIHL AAA, I started to think differently. Good perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 (edited) 2 minutes ago, HereForTheChirps said: I think each team may lose a few. I don’t think any one team will be decimated. I think Icemen and Mid-State will also contribute some players to the Esmark cause as well. Are you thinking that many of the former Esmark 09 players that are now on Preds 09 AAA and Allegheny 09 AA are going back to Esmark? Why did they leave in the first place? Edited February 8 by RJUSHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereForTheChirps Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I don’t think the Preds players will, they left for a reason. The Badgers players were supposed to be on that team that folded. I could see them going back. There are a few on Mid-State in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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