TheRightCall Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 39 minutes ago, aaaahockey said: It's absolutely crazy. And I'm going to speak my own opinion here but it hurts the sport from top to bottom. Ever wonder why after pick 5 or so of the NHL draft it's a total crapshoot? Your hypothesis is a bit inaccurate, as I know of a couple ——-at least four Pitt players who did not succumb to the allure of the extra “A” and made the Pitt team and excelled. There is zero need to shell out tons of money to end up on the same place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeydadx3 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 7 hours ago, TheRightCall said: Your hypothesis is a bit inaccurate, as I know of a couple ——-at least four Pitt players who did not succumb to the allure of the extra “A” and made the Pitt team and excelled. There is zero need to shell out tons of money to end up on the same place. One can almost say the only pathway to the NHL is through playing AA hockey and for your local High School team. Play AAA if you want to burn cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Playing Jr A to progress to ACHA is a ton of money and delay in schooling to me. And....your student may decide that school and hockey is too much. College is a whole different ball of wax than high school .How long do you want to be away from the academic setting before returning? Maybe you can afford it. Maybe your kid could use a year or so to mature a bit. But to have this become the path to play in college just sucks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 15 hours ago, TheRightCall said: Your hypothesis is a bit inaccurate, as I know of a couple ——-at least four Pitt players who did not succumb to the allure of the extra “A” and made the Pitt team and excelled. There is zero need to shell out tons of money to end up on the same place. I'll just say I hope you are right but that's not what I'm seeing the trend being anywhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewster Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 18 hours ago, TheRightCall said: Your hypothesis is a bit inaccurate, as I know of a couple ——-at least four Pitt players who did not succumb to the allure of the extra “A” and made the Pitt team and excelled. There is zero need to shell out tons of money to end up on the same place. AAAA is correct…at least from my non-analytical scientific data & information extrapolation techniques (*patent pending) that knows (at least what it once required) to make a legitimate Top 20 ACHA D1 school’s roster compared to now. The résumé’s of prospective ACHA D1, D2, or even D3 that step on the ice for tryouts today are so much more competitive (at least on paper, which could be saying something too). There’s surely marginal AAA players on weak a** cheese teams that barely play on the 4th line on their midget team coming in with nothing more than the third “A” on their hockey bag and nothing else to back it up. Then again, it’s *mostly politics we’re talking about here anyways. It always is, and such is life… Everyone can’t be naive to believe that hockey is immune to that caveat. Case in point: You got a recognizable hockey family name (that played in the NHL)? Bingo, you’re on the team! Or, in some cases it just takes some extra dough to grease the head honcho’s palms “for that little extra look-see” during tryouts to make sure he sees Johnny’s number. Its simply not an even playing field with a tight, vacuum-sealed lid on top where everyone could see and tell who was the best of the best. The consistently Top ACHA coaches will tell you where they recruit from. It’s not mostly juniors and seniors in high school like we see in other sports. It’s mostly Jr A. The bottom line that I’ve heard is: If you could take that same player either straight outta high school; OR, 1-2 years removed from HS (still as a freshman with 4 years eligibility), who are you gonna take? Considering my maturity level when I was 17-18 years old vs when I was at age 20…it was huge gap just in personal responsibility. There’s always outliers…but from the limited number of ACHA coaches I’ve talked with… it’s trending where they’re primarily looking Junior A as their recruiting base. I think that it’s crazy as well. But, it’s the reality of the situation. Edited March 26 by Rewster Grammatical error 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 What are you considering as Junior A? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightCall Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 As someone posted earlier either here or on a different thread, it is not absolutely necessary to spend tons of money to play AAA. My son played on a high level nationally ranked AA team who went to Tier 2 Nationals consecutively and made the Pitt team without ever going the other expensive routes. I’m referencing the recent high level Pitt teams. And, he didn’t sacrifice his high school years billeting out of town and missing the rites of passage like homecoming and prom. No criticizing here—just saying it can be done considering a lot of kids end up being behind a few years from going different routes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zam Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 hours ago, TheRightCall said: And, he didn’t sacrifice his high school years billeting out of town and missing the rites of passage like homecoming and prom. Some may say the life experiences of living with a host family in a new city, and traveling the US and Canada while developing relationships with that family, coaches, and players all while pushing oneself to succeed at the highest level of their sport might be more beneficial than attending a dance at the Burgettstown Days Inn. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafa fohi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, zam said: Some may say the life experiences of living with a host family in a new city, and traveling the US and Canada while developing relationships with that family, coaches, and players all while pushing oneself to succeed at the highest level of their sport might be more beneficial than attending a dance at the Burgettstown Days Inn. To each his own. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewster Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 9 hours ago, Law said: What are you considering as Junior A? That’s a great question. It’s blurry anymore as I don’t think that there’s anymore Junior “B” leagues (or Junior C for that matter) here in the states. I’m sure that there are others on here that can explain it much better than I can. In fact, I’ve had to do research multiple times this year just to figure out what junior leagues/teams exist within the USA—and am still not totally clear. But, to answer your question (correct me if I’m wrong): In the USA, Junior A is basically now the umbrella term for 20U. It’s like, there was suddenly a stigma, and nobody wanted to be labeled as being affiliated with Junior B (or Jr C). So, they eliminated any misinterpretation that the teams/leagues would carry as being “sub-Jr A.” Junior A leagues/teams are all still separated by the customary Tier system…Tier 1: USHL; Tier 2: NAHL; Tier 3: EHL, NA3HL, USPHL. I don’t understand the nuts and bolts with qualifications that distinguish USA sanctioned Junior hockey leagues vs independent leagues. Don’t ask me about Canada as I need a road map just to begin to understand their seemingly endless onion layers of Junior leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Rewster said: Junior A leagues/teams are all still separated by the customary Tier system…Tier 1: USHL; Tier 2: NAHL; Tier 3: EHL, NA3HL, USPHL. This breakdown of US Junior seems correct. As far as having players go to Junior for a year or two following their HS graduation does make some sense. Hockey is what's considered a "late specialization" sport, which means that players don't reach their peak until mid 20's. This is compared to "early specialization" sports like figure skating and gymnastics (mid/late teens). It only makes sense that college coaches would be looking for players who are physically, mentally, and emotionally more mature than a 17 or 18 year old who is just coming out of high school and is probably living life on their own for the first time ever. With the players staying home and experiencing the "rites of passage" that is an individual player's decision. Historically, the registration numbers for USA Hockey tend to begin to slide around ages 14-16. The theory has usually been that players and their families are making the choice that the expense and time commitment is out weighed by the desire to do things like hangout with friends or significant others, have a job, party, etc. As long as organizations are up front with players and families about what the expectations are and what sacrifices may have to be made, I don't see a problem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear and Magic Helmet Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 9:36 AM, Rewster said: Junior A leagues/teams are all still separated by the customary Tier system…Tier 1: USHL; Tier 2: NAHL; Tier 3: EHL, NA3HL, USPHL. I don’t understand the nuts and bolts with qualifications that distinguish USA sanctioned Junior hockey leagues vs independent leagues. The designations have a lot to do with how much they pay. Tier 1 - players pay nothing. Tier 2 - players pay something for room/board. Tier 3 - pay to play. I'm sure people don't follow the rules exactly, but that's the basic rules. The anarchy of "Junior A" in the late 90s/early 2000s was not really ended by USA Hockey reclassifying the levels. They just pushed some teams out of USA Hockey who didn't want to conform. The NCDC wanted to be Tier 2, but USA Hockey said no and they became an unsanctioned/independent Junior league. I would imagine that the issue for them was cost. They wanted to charge the players tuition, and USA Hockey said only Tier 3 can charge tuition, so they left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender05 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 3/17/2024 at 7:34 PM, YardSale said: Speaking of, how are the skates looking? Heard the esmark skates have merged 2008 and 2009s together to make it look like more kids there. only about 12-20 kids total have shown up for each skate for u15 and u16 all combined. Doubt 2009s will be able to field a team unless some imported players come. Allegheny will be 2008 and 2009 combined so no clue what that team will look like. Renegades seems to be keeping their team together for 2009 and had a good turnout. Heard vengeance skates were a bit of a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 On 4/2/2024 at 10:34 PM, bender05 said: Heard the esmark skates have merged 2008 and 2009s together to make it look like more kids there. only about 12-20 kids total have shown up for each skate for u15 and u16 all combined. Doubt 2009s will be able to field a team unless some imported players come. Allegheny will be 2008 and 2009 combined so no clue what that team will look like. Renegades seems to be keeping their team together for 2009 and had a good turnout. Heard vengeance skates were a bit of a mess I mean, how can you tell for sure? You don't know if players that already have a spot came. Because I can't think of any organization that doesn't already have a good idea of who they want at the older ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey00 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 hours ago, Saucey said: I mean, how can you tell for sure? You don't know if players that already have a spot came. Because I can't think of any organization that doesn't already have a good idea of who they want at the older ages. Maybe it is more of if they have a team it will be more like a high level AA team/low AAA filled with mostly AA players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YardSale Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 5 hours ago, Saucey said: I mean, how can you tell for sure? You don't know if players that already have a spot came. Because I can't think of any organization that doesn't already have a good idea of who they want at the older ages. The difference here is there is no current ‘09 team. You would think players would come to the skates to see what is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsi Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 16 hours ago, YardSale said: The difference here is there is no current ‘09 team. You would think players would come to the skates to see what is there. The former '09 team split up between Preds and Allegheny Badgers. I don't believe any of those players are coming back, so not sure where they are going to get the players to fill an '09 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedandconfused Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 So will PIA need more that one sheet next season? Esmark losing teams, Huskies will be hard-pressed to field any teams this season. Maybe they could beg the Vipers to return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 3 hours ago, dazedandconfused said: So will PIA need more that one sheet next season? Esmark losing teams, Huskies will be hard-pressed to field any teams this season. Maybe they could beg the Vipers to return? Why are the Huskies having such a hard time fielding teams? I would've thought they'd be in a great position of starting something fresh. But it just hasn't taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YardSale Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said: Why are the Huskies having such a hard time fielding teams? I would've thought they'd be in a great position of starting something fresh. But it just hasn't taken. I don’t think the AHF is all that appealing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 3 hours ago, nemesis8679 said: Why are the Huskies having such a hard time fielding teams? I would've thought they'd be in a great position of starting something fresh. But it just hasn't taken. No one wants to drive that far + what was said above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I don't think the rink is that more out of the way for people than most others are depending where you live. And AHF doesn't seem to bother Rebellion folks. Who knows. Maybe just less people to choose from.out that way. I don't think they even had any PAHL teams last season besides the one 16u team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebucket Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said: I don't think the rink is that more out of the way for people than most others are depending where you live. And AHF doesn't seem to bother Rebellion folks. Who knows. Maybe just less people to choose from.out that way. I don't think they even had any PAHL teams last season besides the one 16u team. While I don't think it's the main reason they are struggling, I think some of it comes down to people not liking the strong arm approach black bear took. Makes me wonder what the numbers will look like at vengeance this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepotisim_anyone Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 11 hours ago, Icebucket said: While I don't think it's the main reason they are struggling, I think some of it comes down to people not liking the strong arm approach black bear took. Makes me wonder what the numbers will look like at vengeance this year I missed the memo. Did the Vengeance get bought by Black Bear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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