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Do you think they take all the out of the area kids partly to create the perception that their org is so amazing, people come from miles around to join it?

Should be interesting to hear how many show up at vengeance tonight and how many show up at the esmark supp

Yeah, guessing Vengeance will be lower in the rankings next season. I would guess a lot of these teams will all be close (probably within that goal or two range). I agree you want to be in the top 30 maybe 40 but once you leave that range not really a AAA roster. Again you may have some AAA players but not a team full. Just tough because not many AAA options in the area other than Pens which is insanely expensive. Very sad and why the sport has trouble gaining popularity. Everyone talked about the 2006 SHAHA , 2007 SHAHA, .... but look at what happen once some of their top players leave. Now look at the 2008 and 2009 Vengeance teams falling apart. Just a shame as people put in a lot of work so they could have been an option over Pens. As much as people may not like Pens, it seems to be the only local organization that fields teams in the top 30 at most, if not all ages. Sadly, you almost have to leave town still if not on the top two lines at Pens once you hit 2nd year bantam.

Esmark-preds-Shaha all are similar even though rankings were off. Esmark beat preds twice in close scores-Shaha 09 lost by one goal to esmark-Shaha 09 beat 09 vengeance. Cost to play each one is different too because esmark usually requires 2-3 plane ride trips at this age

I think the saying is "if you aren't getting better you're getting worse", or maybe its "if you ain't first you're last"? Lol You can have a deep 09 team and replace a few people, but if you aren't picking up top line guys or a stud Goalie the team is likely going to take a step back. I don't know any 09 players so I'm not familiar with the personnel, so I'm just speaking in generalities here. But what I do know is there are going to be a dozen new teams that are going to pop up in the top 50 that didn't field teams below 14U, Shattuck and MN teams, North Dakota, Selects, Mount to name a few And you can count on some Detroit teams consolidating players too. So dropping 40 spots isn't unlikely. And let's be honest, most top youth teams are only as good as their top 5 or 6 players. The other players are interchangeable, they are just along for the ride. So a few AA players moving to AAA and vice versa isn't changing much. Nobody ever won a national championship because they replaced their 9th forward. It's the same whether we are talking PIHL PAHL or AAA.

Was there this weekend. Construction crews working on it all day. They have the old base tore up and are completely redoing it from the ground up. No idea about the bleachers, not sure there there’s enough room to do that. I’ll take some pictures next time I’m there.

One of the better schools in the PA state system for academics and also an opportunity for your kid to play hockey is West Chester University. The campus is beautiful, not too large and has a nice downtown area for the restaurants and bars. It gets overlooked by those living in western PA but gets a heavy draw from kids in the tri-state area along with Philly. It is pretty affordable too at around $25K all-in for tuition / room / board per year before academic scholarships.

I'm still trying to figure out why Esmark didn't wait until post-vengeance/preds to have their supplemental. But I'm sure they have their reasons.

It has been discussed that the Vengeance players are scattering, where are their players coming from as you see them second in the pecking order?

Icemen tryouts aren’t until next week looks like only the goalie tryout so far…..rumor is last year esmark goalie going to icemen esmark has a supplemental tonight but vengeance starts tonight and preds and shaha aren’t done yet so who could they even pick up. Seems like a lot of players are going to preds tryouts but can’t take them all.

Yeah the Icemen and the Preds battle for the final stop. But give credit to the 09 Icemen. They are pretty good. Let’s see how they do on midams though. The 06 Icemen were awful in midams against the PAHL teams. NP beat them 10-1 or something like that. The 08 Icemen team didn’t do well in midams either. The 07 icemen were not good. Money grab.

RJ, I have NEVER seen movement like this year. Teams from last year who were struggling to field a AA team now have over forty kids going out for them, and other teams are simply folding because they get ten kids coming out to tryouts. I think parents' heads are just spinning from all the gamesmanship from the programs. You already mentioned the AAA chaos, and I think a lot of that has to do with kids leaving AAA programs for AA programs. There's a trickle-down effect. There has to be a better system than what we have. It's the kids who are hurt every year, and it's not always the fault of the parents trying to find that extra A. I hope programs and parents use this board as a CONSTRUCTIVE way to find a home for these orphan kids.

Lots of shifting with the 09s this year (and more to come). Pens rightfully taking some 09 Vengeance kids. Esmark 09 struggling to field a team and having to hold supplementals. Some unknowns with Vengeance tryouts but that seems to be changing now. They will get some of the better Esmark players and some of the top AA players making a jump, as well as keeping the majority of their team. Even losing a few players, the Vengeance 09 team could be better next year. And some of the Esmark players in the south hills seem to be headed for the Preds 09 AAA team. Between SHAHA, Preds, and Esmark there are going to be some AAA players that bump down to AA this year. Lots of interest in North Pittsburgh and South Pittsburgh in terms of a landing spot for AAA kids that get bumped and the better AA kids from Foxes and Lebo that seem to be moving on. NPGH and SPGH seem to have the best coaching situations and solid plans for next season. They're going to improve a lot. And on the other side of the city, the Renegades and Badgers seem to be picking up many of the top players from the very good '09 Viper Stars AA team. AAA: Pens and Preds should be a lot better. Esmark is going to struggle. Vengeance should still be very good. Wouldn't surprise me if this is the last year of SHAHA 09s playing AAA. They should remain ranked at about 100. That's a very good AA team, not so sure it's AAA. Why not compete for Tier II nationals? They could win it. AA: Rebellion, North Pitt, and Renegades will be much better. Foxes and Lebo seem to be taking a step back. Just an absurd amount of movement with the 09s this year.

I heard 3 skaters and a goalie

I don’t think anyone suggested they should not be paid. The point was they shouldn’t be allowed to extort the players with paid private lessons in return for playing time.

Esmark, tryouts on Easter Sunday????? Enough said about the organization.

That place can't even handle a standard tournament in terms of parking even with the small parking addition they did in the rear. And to top it off there is literally nowhere nearby that people can park and walk. That not a venue that I would have chosen for Nationals.

Parking at Delmont shouldn’t be a problem. Lol.

I’ve heard good things in the past about West Chester. Very disappointed my Alma has turned to shit, IUP was such a great part of my young adult life. It’s very sad what has happened to the school & town.

This 09 Icemen team is legit and I agree they could be National Championship contenders. Anyone know if they picked up some Esmark fallouts/other AAA talent? The core they already had was very talented and if they added anyone else I don’t see anyone stopping them at States.