LGP13

At younger ages kids are still developing, actually probably even past 14U. They most likely quit because they have a solid idea of who will be on the team at that point. At younger ages you can still keep parents (money) roped into the organization to sell the dream. As they get older and parents start to catch on they understand you need to try elsewhere if you aren't on the gold team. If PPE continued to field a black team it would probably be full of "lesser talented" kids and not yield the ratings and persona to continue the business model.

I think from a logical standpoint you have to agree with what Montour is arguing in this situation. This kid is here on a visa from another country (correct?) and for the most part all he knows is his club team he plays for. If the billet he lives with, lives in the school district and that is the school he goes to_ this could be his only real outlet to connect with kids that he goes to school with. Imagine moving across the world to play hockey as a young kid, billeting with people you barely know, going to school with kids you don't know and have to adapt to their culture. Probably doesn't speak the language well. His team and hockey are the only thing he can use to connect with the kids around his age and school. The only thing that the kid is thinking is that he wants to play hockey for the school he goes to so he can use it to create bonds and friendships with the other kids. You are all right no one comes here to play PIHL hockey, but if a kid that has nothing in a foreign land can use it as a tool to connect and bond with the people he is living with_ I'd say that's waaayy bigger and more important than the actual game itself. Now with that said, I think we all have to understand that there are people that don't really have empathy for anyone else and their motives are all about what can benefit them. To think that someone won't use loopholes or break the rules to benefit themselves is foolish. That's why there are rules in place for situations like this. Like a previous poster said, I really do hope everything checks out and the rules were followed, because if they weren't the ripple effect of someone trying to manipulate the situation to benefit themselves for single a high school hockey in western PA is really damaging. The foreign kid that was trying to use the sport he plays to build a bond with his school and peers will now be vilified if they get disqualified and it will create an opposite effect. He'll feel terrible because all he knows is he was trying to find something in common with people and use it to "star status" himself at a school where he knows no one. All the other kids on the team that worked hard to make the playoffs for their school team will now not be able to play in them...what if they are seniors... That is a lot to risk breaking the rules. On the flip side the same set of standards goes for the teams that wouldn't make the playoffs. Imagine being a senior on that team and a rival team suddenly gets an elite goalie and they nearly go undefeated as they push you from the playoffs. That doesn't seem fair either. As long as the rules were followed there should be a paper trail. Through the school's team board, through PIHLs board. This is why rules are put in place, because while it does seem silly to not "just let the kid play" you need to think of the other teams and kids that are affected by that statement. Especially if it is someone that_ someone else is basically using to benefit themselves or coaching resume. I don't know if that is the situation, but again, follow the rules. Don't cheat. Do the right thing.

While that is a good question, I'm curious what the Renegades numbers have looked like since the Aviators have arrived at Alpha. If Renegades are losing teams because kids are going to Aviators it's not really an influx. Same amount of kids, just shuffling the logos on their jerseys. *edit spelling

I find this hard to believe. Alpha has to be at full or near full capacity. If Esmark retains the AA teams at New Ken, that means this would affect strictly the A/B teams. Further travel, more money (ice cost) for the lower divisions that just want to play hockey? If those parents were smart they would see this as really dumb and just change the logo on their jersey to the dog.

I've never been involved, so excuse my ignorance. Is the excel school and the prep school mandatory to play PPE? Like you can't just try out for the PPE program, make it, and attend the scheduled program functions? How do they force you to do the excel program and Prep school if you aren't interested in them or don't have the money/means to? It seems pretty crazy to me that if a kid was talented enough to go to tryouts and make the team that he would be turned away because him and his family couldn't afford to do Excel/Prep in addition to the lofty PPE tuition?

None? I see these comments on here all the time about Esmark and BB and rink rumors. I may not be correct in this, but I'm under the impression that there isn't any_ and Esmark operates under its own set of rules like its own entity. I heard awhile back that the only reason Esmark is at New Ken and with NHAHA is because they use NHAHAs licenses and insurances. Pair that with the fact they are at New Ken where (at the time) the ice was cheaper. It's a win/win for NHAHA and Esmark as unknowing parents might enroll their kids into the program thinking that the Vipers feed into Esmark. NHAHA definitely gains revenue from being paired with Esmark and in turn Esmark uses them. So Esmark is only tied to New Ken to generate the most money (cheap ice, tied to NHAHA, MAYBE grab a kid east of the city). So while BB buys all these rinks they are only trying to get the organizations to have a monopoly. You think BB really wanted Rostraver? gtfoh. They wanted to snatch up any organizations that could possibly run out of rinks that they don't own. They are going to throw some paint on the walls and keep their rink grabbing moving. The more organization logos you can throw on your posters for your league_ the better it looks and once you own most of the rinks in the area no one will have anywhere to go and you dictate the ice cost. That being said, I don't believe that Esmark is locked in to being with NHAHA. As soon as BB makes it non-profitable for Esmark or cuts into their profits too much I wouldn't be shocked if Esmark cuts from NHAHA and aligns with someone else. NHAHA on the other hand is pretty much stuck at New Ken and a BB rink where they will control everything now. I think everyone looks at NHAHA and Esmark like a tier system because that's how they sell it. Vipers > Viper stars > Esmark. I look at it like Vipers and NHAHA are the organization at New Ken. Stars were fabricated to be a bridge between Vipers and Esmark but are really just a way to get more money out of the better players there, and Esmark is a AAA organization that pretty much does what they want at the top. With everyone using each other along the way. At the end of the day these are all businesses trying to make money. I would be shocked if anyone could name 1 kid that went from Vipers to Esmark in the last 10 years. I'm not saying that the level of hockey being played, coached isn't worth the money_ and it's everyone choice on how to spend theirs. I'm simply saying that these are businesses, and they are here to make money. If BB makes it so Esmark can't make their money then they will try to find another way/place to do it. Do you think Esmark cares where the home rink location is? Unless it has an effect on the kids (money) they can pull in_ they don't care. Esmark is in a unique situation being tied in with NHAHA and I think there is a balancing of pros and cons probably happening to find out if it is worth it to separate and move to another place/organization. Honestly this probably happens consistently with ever changing variables, but I think you guys need to realize that the determining factor is always the money. Not the kids, not the hockey, not the rink location, not the organizations, not the rink owners. The sooner you figure that out the easier it is to understand everything that happens/is happening.

Does anyone have any insight into these programs? It is advertised as an elite, "68" selection program. It seems like it might just be an expensive 3 day camp.

I agree with most of your quote. If a player is good enough then people come find you, you don't have to go searching. I do question "if they ask you for money, if they do that run for the hills." Could you clarify that? Personally, I don't have a ton of money to throw around, so I have to deem it necessary to myself before I spend on anything. So these "advisors" do it for free?

My misunderstanding, I initially thought you were trying to say you couldn't find any information at all. If you dig enough the information is available, but yes, I agree with you.

I've literally never had this problem and I have 3 kids playing. That being said I also don't look at other organizations outside of my comfort level of driving distance for practices.

This is a terrible idea. Speaking personally my child stayed with a team for the last few years, same coach. We recently changed programs and having a new coach has done great things for my kid's development. Fresh voice, varying coaching philosophies, etc. Everyone preaches to let players have creativity on the ice, now you want to pigeon hole kids into programs that might run things one way? I'm sure the kid that makes plays east to west and opens room for his teammates would love to play on a team that just dumps and chases because their 95 year old coach did that when he played and there is no other way to play the game. My piece of advise for anyone on here, look for a team that has a great coach that will push and teach your kid the game, let them be creative and have fun. Who cares what logo is on the front of the jersey or any accolades that might come with it. Of course finding a team is largely based off what your kid wants. If he wants to stay with friends and play then you have to take that into consideration, but forcing kids to play on teams based off where they live is not a good idea at all.

RJ Umberger played a few seasons at Plum, then Ohio State, NHL Sean Berkstresser played at Kiski, Hornets & Forge, RMU, ECHL Zach Tatrn played for Burrell, Preds, OHL(Petes), Mostly SPHL after that, but a season at ECHL, USHL, NAHL each. Did this guy play for Kittanning at all in the 90s? I remember playing against a "Ford", I tried to hit him in the corner and got nothing but glass and he shelved my goalie.

South Pittsburgh 2010 was independent last year. SHAHA '09 was AA PAHL and very successful. Yeti '09 was AA PAHL and not very good. I believe I saw South Pittsburgh on the PAHL placement game schedule as well. Hopefully it's the 2010 team that came to their senses. I would love to know what magic they are performing in Butler that their teams that are bad the previous year jump up divisions the next? Maybe they are just out of touch, the South Pittsburgh '10 team was a good PAHL team and went independent last year. What happens if you are just a good PAHL team, and not really AAA is, when you go independent no one wants to play you if your rating is substantially lower because teams don't want to risk their rating to play you. I imagine that this is what South Pitt ran into and couldn't find games to play. Yeti's will have the same problem, basically you'd just have to register for a bunch of tournaments and play out of town all the time and spend much more money than you would have if you just stayed in your lane played PAHL and played a few tournys. Yetis '10 going independent... I have no words. If anything I expected them to stay independent this year because they did get some imports from the PPE black dismantle year. So they are going to be a better team playing back in PAHL.

Never going to happen. You are correct that it is better for youth hockey in Pittsburgh, but I don't think it is anything that PAHL can control. You can't stop teams from jumping ship and going independent. Anyone can do it, look at how many have already. Save from a few AAA teams at each level that need to go independent to get competitive games there is really no reason for teams to play independent. The problem lies in the allure of the people (making money off hockey) selling independent teams to parents and clubs. They hide their fees and profits in the costs associated with being independent to make money, while selling the idea of somehow their team is better than everything in the area so we need to travel (add more profit) to other states to play better teams. It has started at the low levels, everyone is independent self proclaimed AAA, when in reality all but 1 or 2 teams are just good AA players. Then by the time teams are at 15u/16u some teams need to go independent because that actually IS the case because any competition that would have been in PAHL is playing on some other independent team on the other side of the city.

I saw them off a friend's phone. I don't have them.

Lots of interesting initial placements from what I've seen. Can't wait to see what everyone says lol