Saucey

It is well known that the Scholastic tournaments there are frequently sandbagged. Not all of the Alphas tournaments are bad, but this is standard stuff for the school ones. 'Middle school' was always the worse, with ninth and tenth graders playing against some squads with sixth graders, and refs not calling checking. You want your sixth grader, who hasn't learned how to check yet, being checked by tenth graders? Good times.

Isn't that the kicker? We know hockey is a late development sport but it's so hard to break in at the elite level if you aren't already in the AAA pool as a young kid, before midget. And contrary to the low level/faux AAA team sales pitches, they aren't really breaking kids into it, either. A few here and there. Good on this program.

I know I am not faha but who is telling you he is borderline AAA? If it's a coach from one of these 'low level' AAA teams I would give it the side eye. Too many have to fill roster spots. (Talent is diluted as faha said.) Most of these teams have a few AAA level talent and everyone else is helping to fund those kids' dreams. If it's a current coach or someone just evaluating him with no stake in the game....better. When people are approaching you wanting to work with your kid or suggesting he may be ready for the next level and they don't have a dollar attached to it.....better. The biggest difference is speed of the game from AA to AAA. If he hasn't been playing AAA, chances are he isn't going to adjust at a tryout to get a serious look. And the AAA kids never stop moving their feet when they are the on the ice. Is he playing above his age group? A minor year playing major AA? He might be ok with AAA speed if that is the case. (Although a minor year AAA team should still beat a AA team in most cases at lower ages anyway.) Is he playing school hockey on varsity with lots of minutes at the PIHL AAA level? If he's hanging with the 17 and 18 year old seniors as a thirteen or fourteen year old.... maybe. But just know that if he's never played AAA, he has to stand out from the pack. The Pens aren't going to take a risk on him over the squad they've had forever, not when they can start pulling from anywhere. I don't actually want any answers to my questions, just food for thought. That all being said, I don't think a tryout is a horrible thing to do. But I would pick it carefully, because some of these teams will recruit to fill spots. If you don't want to do AAA...then don't send him to a tryout where you think it is not legit and they may offer him a spot. ? He might get his head filled with the idea that he is AAA by a team/coach, and then if you don't let him play there, he's a problem where you do end up. You know your kid best. Also beware, some players get offered free ice to come skate and they do with no intention of playing for the team, just skate to keep sharp Sometimes it is hard to guage how good the team is going to be from skates or a tryout....some of that talent you saw when you were there doesn't materialize once the team is forming. It's so hard to navigate youth sports. ?‍♂️ But....you can be a parent. It's ok to tell your kid no. You are not stomping on his dreams if you can't do it as a family or financially. That's life. There are still ways to play higher level without going to these AAA low level teams. Not easy, but it does happen. Did he get an invite to the mid am try out? That tells you at least his current coach and organization thinks he should mix it up with AAA kids. Not going to have it any easier to get noticed there, but it tells you they see something, anyway.

This is an excellent point and one I have heard Marianne Watkins address at coaching clinics. She said she can teach a child all there is to know about skating, but if a child cannot execute the move due to inflexibly/weakness, there is nothing she can do about that in an hour's lesson She mentioned that kids are simply not as fit as they were. Hip flexors/hammies too tight to get a full stride, no core strength, things like that, that she can only do so much about. I would also add, if your kid isn't into it, not working, no instructor can help much and all you are doing is wasting time and money. That's why I mentioned understanding how your child is motivated and whether that will mesh with an instructor's style. Until my kids wanted those privates and were asking for them, I knew my kids would be a pia and it would be a waste.

Ok, to be serious, but really, if you wanted to avoid any snide remarks there was no need to mention AAA at all. There is only one treadmill in Pittsburgh, at RMU, unless they have one at Lemiuex. Call there and see who does lessons. Truly, it is hard to give a recommend because I think it really depends on your child. For a private, I think you need to understand how your kid is motivated and whether the instructors style will blend with that.

Why not ask your lower AAA coach for a recommend? They seem to be well versed in taking players to the next level, according to all their sales pitches.

I know of a few players who were with Preds and Esmark who then made Pens Elite. I'm sure there are others. I don't think it happens very often.I do think it is very hard to make it as an older child if you were never part of the program. If you are contemplating it, find out how the tryouts work to try and prepare your child.

Center Ice rules are no drinking in the lot. People want to blame MidAm or the rink, but the bottom line is that no matter what you do, people will choose to behave badly. I much preferred having Center Ice host this than Ice Castle. Not having a bar on site helped to cut down on the bad behavior, I believe, because as others have said, some parents do drink and then are rowdy. I feel this tournament was pretty well run this year. Aside from this, parents and players were fairly well behaved and that definitely made for a more enjoyable experience. (I didn't watch many 18u games, that age group is tough with the fighting, but the one game I saw, the refs did a pretty good job controlling some bad behavior.) If criminal charges don't follow some of these things the adults in the stands for, then people really don't have a check on their behavior. I'm not sure that part happens. That is where the rinks could step in.But there is hassle and time suck in pursuing those things.

The winner

What, it's inconceivable to you that more than one person may find your suggestion maligning a guy anonymously on a message board to be both ridiculous and distasteful? No wonder there is a ref shortage. What does he get from it? If he wanted to homer the other team, shouldn't he have slanted calls to help them win? You said it was a loss? SMH

I'm confused, what does the rink location have to do with anything?

You say that as if the distotion of reality is somehow unique to this poster rather than many people who post on this board.... why focus so hard on this one poster?

The 'AAA' coaching is not superior as a rule. There are some good coaches. There are some good parent coaches. Playing at a high level does not necessarily mean you can coach kids. And if the kid isn't a natural athlete, that child comes out of their AAA experience playing at the same level before they went in. We see it all the time. We are a small hockey market. We do not have multiple generations who have played. We don't have access to lots of free ice. We don't have all the best athletes in the area playing ice hockey because it is not the top sport around here. So we aren't going to develop like the big markets. I've had that complaint about the hockey modules offered by USA hockey...that they really aren't that great for people who do not know the sport. That is our area. But if your coach plays somewhere and is paired with someone who does know what they are doing, you can develop some coaches.We need to think about things like that, because we are a small hockey market. Grow the game, and maybe you can start having more high level talent. I'm tired of the AAA sales pitch. That's not growing our game around here. Too many organizations are only focusing on that top team. The rest of the kids twist in the wind.

That's interesting. We don't have the ice to provide a lot of that free play.

I guess for me, to spend that money and time, I would want more than a four or five goal differential with PPE. It happens occasionally, with ONE other team in an age group. So I would allow one or two in the area.

It's a legit question. 2005 was a low birth year. Few programs have been able to field AA teams full of 05 AA talent, let alone fill the slots of the three or four AAA teams floating around. The number playing at all keeps decreasing each year. So it's not that hard as a somewhat talented 05 player to make one of these teams. For that reason, I doubt anyone is 'butt hurt' for not making a team, because I think you could get on one if you wanted. So I want to know....where are they expected to materialize from? And sorry, being good in Mid Am, our small hockey market, doesn't somehow mean you are competing with the big boys. I care in that, as I have said on this board over and over again, I think a parent's desire for the extra A does not make for a very good hockey market around here when the talent doesn't match the desire. Maybe those kids would have developed better sticking to AA (or A, a good number of them.) I challenge the idea that AAA develops a player better with all the 'extras' WHEN YOU ARE NOT AAA. Wasn't that the big complaint with the PPE black teams, that this was really a AA option with a very expensive AAA price tag? But parents want it, and there is always someone out there willing to provide it.

Not enough 05s. Where would they come from?

This. People playing in these AAA teams will tell you that they are doing it because of the superior coaching, more ice time blah blah blah. What dropthepuck just said. But then when it becomes clear that their kid isn't going anywhere....their kid either quits hockey entirely or wanders back to AA. Totally doing it because they think their kid is going somewhere. Or they say they didn't want to crush their kid's dreams. Suddenly, when they return, it's ok 'just to play for fun.' Shoot, it was always ok to just play for fun. This scenario plays out over and over. Everyone wants to think their kid is special. Many kids will say when they are little that they want to play in the NFL or NHL. I never told my kid he couldn't go pro when he was ten expressing this. I never 'crushed his dreams' by telling him no directly. (A frequent complaint expressed on this board by the coaches expressing frustration when they can't talk a parent of a kid they are trying to recruit to their 'AAA' program.) But I also know the facts and didn't go chasing down these things. He didn't know about faux AAA teams. We just didn't go there with him. He missed out on nothing. And then when he hit high school he figured it out on his own. Summer leagues, etc when he would see some of these 'AAA' players. See the rankings. He has actually told us thank you for not getting caught up in that. He doesn't want to travel to Texas, etc to play these crazy tournaments. He isn't bitter thinking we stomped on his dreams. There is so much you have to have to make college or the NHL. Natural athlete. Work ethic and drive. Luck. Connections. Money. People whose kid never made a AA team in PAHL go on these AAA teams. That's just crazy to me. They just don't want to listen to people who may know something. 'Don't tell my kid he can't do it.' Ok, have fun. My kid can also go play club hockey somewhere if he wants while playing PAHL and school hockey. And we are amused by the return of all the players who left PAHL at peewee or whatever, tired of spending the money and time now that it is clear their kid is not going to be playing D1 or D3. So yeah, it wasn't about the coaching or dry land training or whatever we heard when they left. In our market, parents drive what is good for development. But most of them don't know squat about hockey or the makeup of hockey in our area. We have BY teams not because people who know hockey think this is a good way to develop players around here. We have it because someone sold it to parents not wanting to disappoint their kids. They sold it because they want their kid playing on a high level team. Or to hand pick players. Or to make mioney for themselves. Or because they think their kid is going D1 if they do this. And slowly, it became hard to attract people to your program if you don't offer it. Almost all the big programs offer a 'AAA' and BY option. Because parents demand it. When youth sports became all about elite options, adults screwed up sports for kids. Big time. The biggest loss to me is the kid who quits playing. He or she lost their love of the game, because playing was all tied up with making it. Or got burned out. Anything below that AAA option is not worth playing. Why? Sports are important. They teach important life lessons where the worst thing that can happen to you as you are learning these lessons is a lost game. Friendships that last a lifetime. Learn to compete. Work. Discipline. Good sportsmanship. How to fail. How to win. Tie it all up with being 'elite' and I think kids and the sport suffer. This sport is already so expensive. It keeps getting more expensive. The sacrifices asked from families are high. You drive people into this other level of hockey that requires even more money and time, on a false premise....that is good how? You connect success in sports to a scholarship or whatever, when that doesn't happen and the kid exits the sport entirely....you missed what is valuable about playing sports in the first place. I'm glad to see those kids return if they do. But boy, it would have been nice to continue playing with them all along. So when I hear...why do you care where I spend money and play...I care because the system as a whole suffers when adults overreach. My kid may have had better competition where he plays, without being told you can find that if you come play all over the US. (And not true when many of these teams lose A LOT.) High school hockey could be a higher level of compete. I don't think these 'AAA' programs help hockey in Western Pa. Those promises that coach made to you and your kid....they don't materialize.

I hate the BY model for our area. The year to move up is not the first year of checking imo. That 07 SHAHA team has some talent but play very timid on the ice. And now you've ruined confidence and you may lose kids next season. I think it hurts development if you overreach on your 'challenge'. It's no different than taking AA players, forming a 'AAA' team and getting your butts handed to you all season. So I don't think you should knock Allegheny for that. Pretty much damned if you do damned if you don't in the BY model around here...they moved up to AA Major, they may have had the same season as SHAHA 07, and hurt development. Bantam are tough years for development. Kids put on their adult height and weight before others. Size starts mattering. So...I also think development hurts when you have no challenge and when all your games. You can address that a bit in your tournament play and independent games. I didn't look at everything the Badgers did this season, they may have tried to do that as best you can in a COVID year. Until we have a market where teams can really put together AA quality players at every BY, I don't think we should do it. I believe my boys did better with checking and learned more as a whole by playing with and against some players who knew how to do it on a mixed BY team playing in A Major. They learn from each other as much as trial and error. When your mixed BY three team can beat the BY team, your first year Bantam kid is playing on a better team with A Major and against better teams than on that AA minor team. And don't forget the 07 BY is just as low numbers as the 2005 BY, so many programs don't have enough 07 AA quality players on their teams. BY is just a mess when you don't have the numbers. In our small hockey market, we frequently don't. We look at large hockey markets and think we should do what they do instead of looking at the reality of our area and building from there.

Is that even happening this year?

There was little time for division placement this year due to COVID. Coaches and programs got their requests for the most part I think this year. Usually, this is one thing I think PAHL usually does really well. But those birth year teams can be hard, like someone else mentioned, because we aren't set up for by in Pa..

Bit of an elitist aren't ya? Theses teams let kids play who normally would not have the opportunity at their school. it's a start. The girls who signed up were happy to play and there was enough interest. It wasn't designed to be a huge commitment.

Why does it matter if they did? It only matters if you are placing a great deal of importance on ranking 11 and 12 year old youth hockey teams. You've got posters inviting other posters out to the proverbial parking lot. It's just dumb for grown people to get worked up over this stuff.

COVID makes this whole argument dumber than usual. With players not being able to play, being quarantined, being sick...all rankings/comparisons get a side eye from me this year. I've had that conversation with my kid, whose team has assumed victory over another based on looking at that website and then were surprised to get beat...truly, all bets are off this season. Plus, any teams crowing from an Alpha rink that has been known to continue to operate despite shut downs, particularly gets raised eyebrows. You get an edge just from playing when no one else could. You don't need to toot your kid's horn anonymously on a message board. It becomes clear on its own if the Vengeance program is better than the Pens. All I think when I see these threads is Jesus, so glad that crazed parent is on someone else's team. Not a good look.

This was the PIHL plan. They were all set to go but for COVID.