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7 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Only the president left, his son graduated. The decision did not affect this years team. They are better off with the new coaches that actually coach all the kids and not just their top players. And what is happening with this years team is not unexpected, because they lost a lot of talent, not because they lost the coaches. The new coaches have more and better experience than the previous staff. 

The coaches resigned because they told the board that they didn’t care about the JV team. And the board fought back on the issue. Which is what is right for the organization. The problem started with the varsity coaches not allowing JV/varsity call ups play in a JV playoff game because they didn’t want them to get hurt. Even though they couldn’t stop those same kids from playing for their Amateur teams, or playing any other sport that they could get hurt playing. The JV played their first playoff game with ten skaters. They did win and advance, all the way to the championship. But the call ups did get to play after the first game, which was the right thing to do. The head varsity coach was also asked in at least 2 board meetings over a couple of years to help the Jv coaches improve their practices. Both times the coach said he would do it, both times he did nothing. The parents just wanted their children to have the opportunity to have better practices. It wasn’t about playing time, it was about improving practices so their kids could get better. And after the varsity coach’s resignation was accepted this time(third time they resigned), the varsity coach went to the JV coach and told him he sucked as a coach. So instead of trying to help improve a young coach, he ignored the parents request for help even though he obviously thought the coach could use improvement. 
 

All of this doesn’t make sense for the simple fact that the JV teams players, or at least some of them, would eventually be playing varsity. So why wouldn’t you want the kids that will eventually play varsity to have the opportunity to improve? Makes no sense. 

This had nothing to do with playing time for kids just because they were seniors. That can be seen with the team this year. There are 3 seniors that are still playing Jv this year. Because the board did not force the coaches to put seniors on the varsity just because they were seniors. 

 

 This was the third time those coaches resigned. The first time was when they won the Pens Cup and the board wouldn’t spend extra money for a Coach bus to take the kids to the Penguins game where they were being honored. The school bus wasn’t good enough for the coaches. What a joke. They resigned because the board, the people responsible for the spending of ALL of the organizations parents money, wouldn’t spend the extra money for a bus ride from RMU to PPG arena. This was all about the coaches vanity. And that has no place in high school sports. 
 

The team this year would have been the same team if those coaches returned, because the kids available are the kids available. Last years team graduated 7-8seniors. 5 of them played AAA amateur sometime during their high school career.  They lost their top two scorers that accounted for more than 50% of their scoring. The team this year doesn’t even have enough kids to field a full roster for a game, without calling up kids that are not varsity ready. They have not played a game with 18 skaters once. They played their last game with 11 skaters. They usually only have three lines and 5 defensemen. Tough to compete at the AA level with a roster that small. Yet they have competed, won a few games so far, and kept a couple close with the top teams.

And to top it all off, the previous coach has taken to twitter to mock this years team. Even though they have already won almost as many games as Montour won the first year they played AA. 3 wins so far this year as opposed to 4 wins for the whole year, when the previous coach was in charge. The first year in AA the team was loaded with talent too. Much more than this years team. And he disparages a board member that does more work than all the coaches combined because he stood up for what is right for the program and all the kids. Very petty. 
 

And lastly, I know of not one parent who was upset that the coaches left. And I am at all games and some practices talking to other parents. Haven’t heard one complaint. 
 

 

 

Wow, that was a lot of detail - thanks! It lines up a lot with what I know about that coach. Once he loses high end talent he leaves and try’s to blame everyone to save face.  just look at his resume’ He’s not a coach that develops players or a program. He’s a win now egomaniac, a coach that looks for a group of young talent, takes over the team then leaves when the run is over. 
 

 

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For a Parent or Anyone to bash a coach who gave the School Montour it's first Penguins Cup in 2019 is unfortunate and disappointing. Clay is a friend and I appreciate his contribution to the game for many years. 

Playing time is not negotiable and is the sole responsibility of the Coach and his staff at any level including development of players at the School, Amateur, Junior, and Collegiate Levels.

The greats at High School level like Plunkett, McQuillan, McVay, Quinn, Bradley, Steedle, Tingle and a few others were special and lasted a long time because they understood and perfected this challenge.   

I try not to post opinions any more on this board and had to address this one. Thanks for fun reading every day by the posters here

 

Edited by Pa Hockey
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2 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

For a Parent or Anyone to bash a coach who gave the School Montour it's first Penguins Cup in 2019 is unfortunate and disappointing. Clay is a friend and I appreciate his contribution to the game for many years. 

Playing time is not negotiable and is the sole responsibility of the Coach and his staff at any level including development of players at the School, Amateur, Junior, and Collegiate Levels.

The greats at High School level like Plunkett, McQuillan, McVay, Quinn, Bradley, Steedle, Tingle and a few others were special and lasted a long time because they understood and perfected this challenge.   

I try not to post opinions any more on this board and had to address this one. Thanks for fun reading every day by the posters here

 

We all understand you are buddies with him -  look at his track record. Very similar situation at the last school.  After the previous poster mentioned the coaches Twitter I went and searched it, sure enough, previous poster wasn’t lying. Previous posting anonymous stranger already has more credibility than the previous coach in my eyes. 

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2 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

For a Parent or Anyone to bash a coach who gave the School Montour it's first Penguins Cup in 2019 is unfortunate and disappointing. Clay is a friend and I appreciate his contribution to the game for many years. 

Playing time is not negotiable and is the sole responsibility of the Coach and his staff at any level including development of players at the School, Amateur, Junior, and Collegiate Levels.

The greats at High School level like Plunkett, McQuillan, McVay, Quinn, Bradley, Steedle, Tingle and a few others were special and lasted a long time because they understood and perfected this challenge.   

I try not to post opinions any more on this board and had to address this one. Thanks for fun reading every day by the posters here

 

Once again, this was absolutely NOT about playing time. Never was about playing time. It was about not caring about how the JV team was treated. If you are the varsity head coach of a program and don’t care about your JV program developing players, you shouldn’t be a coach. This is high school. Not juniors or college. 
 

and I’ll bash anyone that treats any kid like a second class citizen. That is what he did to every kid on the JV team for 5 years. Along with some of his less talented players on varsity. If you want to defend someone, get your facts straight. 
 

why no mention of his bashing the current team and administrators on twitter? Do you think that is ok? Do you think that is professional? 
 

What do you think about resigning over a bus ride from RMU to PPG paints arena? It was childish and they should have sent him on his way then. 

What about telling a young JV coach that he stinks instead of helping him become a better practice coach? Why not do what they parents and BOARD ALask and give guidance to a young coach to help his future players? 

I appreciate all you do for Pittsburgh hockey, but you need to step away from this subject because you only want to know what the coach says because he is your friend. Listen to all the facts, not just his whiny explanation.

if you are going to try and defend someone, address the issues with how you feel. Don’t just show blind support. Just because he is your friend doesn’t mean he is right. 

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3 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

For a Parent or Anyone to bash a coach who gave the School Montour it's first Penguins Cup in 2019 is unfortunate and disappointing. Clay is a friend and I appreciate his contribution to the game for many years. 

Playing time is not negotiable and is the sole responsibility of the Coach and his staff at any level including development of players at the School, Amateur, Junior, and Collegiate Levels.

The greats at High School level like Plunkett, McQuillan, McVay, Quinn, Bradley, Steedle, Tingle and a few others were special and lasted a long time because they understood and perfected this challenge.   

I try not to post opinions any more on this board and had to address this one. Thanks for fun reading every day by the posters here

 

Did you even read my original post? Once again, IT WAS NOT ABOUT PLAYING TIME AT ANY POINT. The board did not force him or any coaches to play seniors on varsity. Can be seen by the fact that there are 3 seniors still on the JV, even through they do not have enough kids to field a full roster ever. So please explain to me how this was about playing time? That is what the your coach friend told you. That is not what is the truth. 

As a matter of fact, during his first year as coach, there were a number of senior parents cOmplaining about playing time for their kids. Which was wrong, and I defended the coach on his stance. After all it is varsity and winning is important. But winning and caring about the development of all the players in your program can go hand in hand. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. And if you don’t want to develop everyone, you shouldn’t be coaching kids. 
 

I have many other examples of his vanity and attempts to run the organization without any input from the board. Examples of him fighting against the board. Examples of him spending parents money for his vanity projects. 
 

Unless you have any proof that this was about playing time, please remain quiet on the subject. Reporters are supposed to report facts, not what they here from a friend without fact checking. If you want to comment about it, be professional and interview some of the people on the board. Get both side of the story. Don’t blindly believe something without research. 
 

Once again, I appreciate all you do for Pittsburgh hockey, but maybe you should sit this one out since you have shown no impartiality. 

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7 hours ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

I just checked the Twitter. Not a good look in some of the tweets. Probably a better way to address it than using Twitter. 

 

 

https://twitter.com/cshell371/status/1474214207398760450?t=6fCvSl_zdzjQOW_AQVOPHQ&s=19

 

 

I don't know the coach, the Board or the players. But, looking at that Twitter account, they are better off without this coach. What an asshat to air that on social media. Show some class, dude.

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On 12/29/2021 at 3:47 PM, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Only the president left, his son graduated. The decision did not affect this years team. They are better off with the new coaches that actually coach all the kids and not just their top players. And what is happening with this years team is not unexpected, because they lost a lot of talent, not because they lost the coaches. The new coaches have more and better experience than the previous staff. 

The coaches resigned because they told the board that they didn’t care about the JV team. And the board fought back on the issue. Which is what is right for the organization. The problem started with the varsity coaches not allowing JV/varsity call ups play in a JV playoff game because they didn’t want them to get hurt. Even though they couldn’t stop those same kids from playing for their Amateur teams, or playing any other sport that they could get hurt playing. The JV played their first playoff game with ten skaters. They did win and advance, all the way to the championship. But the call ups did get to play after the first game, which was the right thing to do. The head varsity coach was also asked in at least 2 board meetings over a couple of years to help the Jv coaches improve their practices. Both times the coach said he would do it, both times he did nothing. The parents just wanted their children to have the opportunity to have better practices. It wasn’t about playing time, it was about improving practices so their kids could get better. And after the varsity coach’s resignation was accepted this time(third time they resigned), the varsity coach went to the JV coach and told him he sucked as a coach. So instead of trying to help improve a young coach, he ignored the parents request for help even though he obviously thought the coach could use improvement. 
 

All of this doesn’t make sense for the simple fact that the JV teams players, or at least some of them, would eventually be playing varsity. So why wouldn’t you want the kids that will eventually play varsity to have the opportunity to improve? Makes no sense. 

This had nothing to do with playing time for kids just because they were seniors. That can be seen with the team this year. There are 3 seniors that are still playing Jv this year. Because the board did not force the coaches to put seniors on the varsity just because they were seniors. 

 

 This was the third time those coaches resigned. The first time was when they won the Pens Cup and the board wouldn’t spend extra money for a Coach bus to take the kids to the Penguins game where they were being honored. The school bus wasn’t good enough for the coaches. What a joke. They resigned because the board, the people responsible for the spending of ALL of the organizations parents money, wouldn’t spend the extra money for a bus ride from RMU to PPG arena. This was all about the coaches vanity. And that has no place in high school sports. 
 

The team this year would have been the same team if those coaches returned, because the kids available are the kids available. Last years team graduated 7-8seniors. 5 of them played AAA amateur sometime during their high school career.  They lost their top two scorers that accounted for more than 50% of their scoring. The team this year doesn’t even have enough kids to field a full roster for a game, without calling up kids that are not varsity ready. They have not played a game with 18 skaters once. They played their last game with 11 skaters. They usually only have three lines and 5 defensemen. Tough to compete at the AA level with a roster that small. Yet they have competed, won a few games so far, and kept a couple close with the top teams.

And to top it all off, the previous coach has taken to twitter to mock this years team. Even though they have already won almost as many games as Montour won the first year they played AA. 3 wins so far this year as opposed to 4 wins for the whole year, when the previous coach was in charge. The first year in AA the team was loaded with talent too. Much more than this years team. And he disparages a board member that does more work than all the coaches combined because he stood up for what is right for the program and all the kids. Very petty. 
 

And lastly, I know of not one parent who was upset that the coaches left. And I am at all games and some practices talking to other parents. Haven’t heard one complaint. 
 

 

 

Wow, thanks for the update. That is a lot of info. I didn't know they relied on only a few kids so much.

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On 1/1/2022 at 9:47 PM, hockey57410 said:

Wow, thanks for the update. That is a lot of info. I didn't know they relied on only a few kids so much.

That montour run was the product of two players for the most part (yes - they did have a small supporting cast - this isn’t a slight at the other players - it’s pointing out how good these two players are)

One defenseman who played in the NAHL right after HS who is now playing NCAA D1. One forward that started this season in the NAHL who is now playing in the NCDC. 

last season they didn’t do as well once the defenseman was gone but the forward still carried the team as well as he could to a playoff birth in class AA. 
 

the coach that quit really had nothing to do with the success of that little window. Any parent could have been on the bench and got the same results.
 

How many varsity teams have an NCAA D1 capable defenseman ? None. You have to go back a long way, bartkowski ? Who played a season for lebo, or cliff ?  Maybe our resident HS hockey historian will give us the data. 

the stud D with a dynamic “elite” forward - they ripped through class A to win the penguin cup.

Edited by Danner27
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7 hours ago, Danner27 said:

That montour run was the product of two players for the most part (yes - they did have a supporting cast - this isn’t a slight at the other players - it’s pointing out how good these two players are)

One defenseman who played in the NAHL right after HS who is now playing NCAA D1. One forward that started this season in the NAHL who is now playing in the NCDC. 

last season they didn’t do as well once the defenseman was gone but the forward still carried the team as well as he could to a playoff birth in class AA. 
 

the coach that quit really had nothing to do with the success of that little window. Any parent could have been on the bench and got the same results.
 

How many varsity teams have an NCAA D1 capable defenseman ? None ? You have to go back a long way, bartkowski ? Cliff ? These are class AAA schools. Maybe our resident historian will give us the data. Add the stud D with a dynamic “elite” forward - they ripped through class A to win the penguin cup.

All great points Danner. I do not know of any more recent teams with NCAA D1 capable D1 in recent memory. 

What is the NCDC? I had not heard of it before you mentioned it, but it is interesting that it's a "tuition free" junior league. I'm way out of the loop, last I remember was everything got tossed into tiers and other than the USHL (Tier 1) and NAHL (Tier 2), everything else was Tier 3 with A, B, and C designations. I'm not sure where the NCDC fits in with all of that.

https://www.usphl.com/ncdc

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32 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

All great points Danner. I do not know of any more recent teams with NCAA D1 capable D1 in recent memory. 

What is the NCDC? I had not heard of it before you mentioned it, but it is interesting that it's a "tuition free" junior league. I'm way out of the loop, last I remember was everything got tossed into tiers and other than the USHL (Tier 1) and NAHL (Tier 2), everything else was Tier 3 with A, B, and C designations. I'm not sure where the NCDC fits in with all of that.

https://www.usphl.com/ncdc

The NCDC is a odd league. Some consider it tier 2.5 - it’s not recognized by USA hockey since it’s part of the usphl. They don’t produce many NCAA D1 players. There are a decent amount of players that get cut by the nahl, play in the ncdc with hopes to make it back to nahl and it does happen from time to time. Some scouts consider it on par with the EHL (the top tier 3 junior league in the states) but the difference is the NCDC is not pay to play like all tier 3 leagues. This is how usphl tries to claim it’s tier 2 like the NAHL. It’s good hockey - the top players are capable of making the nahl but for whatever reason they don’t but overall it’s not on the NAHL level. 

The ex montour forward is averaging a point per game in the NCDC - By comparison he couldn’t crack the lineup in the NAHL. 

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Over 50 Years there have been plenty of High School Hockey players that have made it to the Division 1 Hockey. Many of the 50 from State of Pennsylvania and includes 25 from Western Pa and a lot them are in the Book Pennsylvania High School Hockey Championships www.pahockey.net, 

 The Book list does not most recently include Roman Kramer (Serra) RMU + Paul Maust (Mars) Mercyhurst + Peyton Jones (Holy Ghost Prep) Penn State + Alex Berdanelli (Franklin Regional) Colorado College + Christian Gorshak (Hempfield) Niagara and Sam Lafferty (Holidaysburg) Princeton within the past few years and are the tip of the iceburgh (He's a Mascot for the Pens)

Umberger 90's + Malone 90's + 6 or 7 from the Peters 2003 Team and on and on played High School Hockey and are not in the Book's top 50 because their team's failed to make States.  

A fun look back at the 70's when John LiPrando (Gateway) Denver, Dee Rizzo (Allderdice) Michigan State and Bobby Kennedy (USC) Bowling Green to name a few trailblazed the ride into Division 1 Hockey and didn't play for the Hornets or Pens Elite.

I am meeting another Allderdice 70's Legend from Greenfield for lunch today that had nearly a dozen Division 1 Hockey offers and decided to play Division 1 Golf at Duke and went on to represent Jason Day and John Daly on the PGA Tour (A little trivia). 

Somewhere in the Archives, I started compiling a list which was onward and upward to NCAA Division 1 but that list is huge now and there's not a spreadsheet large enough and time for that. Check out Elite Prospects to see a lot of Eastern and Western Pa High School players who played for their local school and went on to Division 1.

 Thanks for posting 

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can you have a discussion with out a sales pitch ? 
 

So, over the past 20 years, there have been roughly 7 players that spent anytime playing at the varsity level in western pa that have made it to NCAA D1 hockey. The majority of these players only spent a season or two playing for their high schools. 
 

furthers my point about that small run montour had. 
 

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Posted (edited)

From the Peters 2003 Team alone Trax - Clackson - Clackson - Minella - Schwartz played 3 or 4 years HS and Travel plus 2006 Quaker Valley South - South - Hall is 8 players including Gergerach  from Montour.

And there's more than 7 .

You ask and I answered -that's enough for now - Bye ! 

Edited by Pa Hockey
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3 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

From the Peters 2003 Team alone Trax - Clackson - Clackson - Minella - Schwartz played 3 or 4 years HS and Travel plus 2006 Quaker Valley South - South - Hall is 8 players including Gergerach  from Montour.

And there's more than 7 .

You ask and I answered -that's enough for now - Bye ! 

I knew about clackson & minella - Schwartz played acha. I didn’t know about the two QV players. So we are roughly at 9 players over the past 20 years. Some of these players go back to the old hornets days when you could play both tier 1 & Varsity. PPE has put a stop to that.
 

Again, the point is - there are very very very very few ncaa d1 capable players playing western pa varsity hockey. 

 

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1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

I knew about clackson & minella - Schwartz played acha. I didn’t know about the two QV players. So we are roughly at 9 players over the past 20 years. Some of these players go back to the old hornets days when you could play both tier 1 & Varsity. PPE has put a stop to that.
 

Again, the point is - there are very very very very few ncaa d1 capable players playing western pa varsity hockey. 

 

Those Peters teams from the early 2000s  were loaded... depending on the day. I think Christian Hanson played with those guys too. Not sure. But if you played them on a Friday, they'd be down like half of their roster. It was ridiculous how many Friday night games those guys had. It's gotten way harder to play tier I and high school more recently for sure, but you also have to consider that a lot of the guys who end up in D1 are playing Jr while they are in high school. 

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9 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Those Peters teams from the early 2000s  were loaded... depending on the day. I think Christian Hanson played with those guys too. Not sure. But if you played them on a Friday, they'd be down like half of their roster. It was ridiculous how many Friday night games those guys had. It's gotten way harder to play tier I and high school more recently for sure, but you also have to consider that a lot of the guys who end up in D1 are playing Jr while they are in high school. 

I do remember Hanson playing for them, if I recall correctly he didn’t play many games but he was definitely in that group. 

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19 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I knew about clackson & minella - Schwartz played acha. I didn’t know about the two QV players. So we are roughly at 9 players over the past 20 years. Some of these players go back to the old hornets days when you could play both tier 1 & Varsity. PPE has put a stop to that.
 

Again, the point is - there are very very very very few ncaa d1 capable players playing western pa varsity hockey. 

 

I forgot to say, the guys from QV are Furman South and his brother Colin South. Both played at RMU. Furman is now an NHL official. Also, to further your point, neither was a defenseman.

Edited by Spear and Magic Helmet
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On 1/3/2022 at 1:52 PM, Pa Hockey said:

From the Peters 2003 Team alone Trax - Clackson - Clackson - Minella - Schwartz played 3 or 4 years HS

 

Who is Trax?? I assume not Eric Trax? I remember him playing for the Forge, and I'm not sure Kevin Constantine would give him a night off to go play high school hockey. The Trax family is not a small family and they have a lot of money from their farm (and selling parts of their farm to developers), so I guess there might be another Trax I'm forgetting.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/81360/eric-trax

 

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