nemesis8679 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) As the title says. Why? Not even just regular tryouts, but teams having supplementals at the same times as teams are still doing regular tryouts? As a parent, I would have no problem with my kid going to tryouts for 4-5 organizations. But it's really hard to do that when you're possibly going to miss at least a day at other places. So now you're sort of forced to put all your eggs in one or two baskets instead of going to several and missing a day or two of each. Now this has to be on purpose, because there's not a lot of hockey going on right now at the rinks but not only are dates the same, but times overlap. I get every org wants to get the commitments first before the others, but they're also missing out on kids that would otherwise perhaps at least get in the door of another org and consider playing there. It's just another hockey thing that seems to be made more complicated than it needs to be. Edited April 25 by nemesis8679 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YardSale Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 5 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said: As the title says. Why? Not even just regular tryouts, but teams having supplementals at the same times as teams are still doing regular tryouts? As a parent, I would have no problem with my kid going to tryouts for 4-5 organizations. But it's really hard to do that when you're possibly going to miss at least a day at other places. So now you're sort of forced to put all your eggs in one or two baskets instead of going to several and missing a day or two of each. Now this has to be on purpose, because there's not a lot of hockey going on right now at the rinks but not only are dates the same, but times overlap. I get every org wants to get the commitments first before the others, but they're also missing out on kids that would otherwise perhaps at least get in the door of another org and consider playing there. It's just another hockey thing that seems to be made more complicated than it needs to be. I think your point about taking your kid to 4-5 tryouts is exactly why they do it. If there was any sort of allegiance to an organization they would just schedule whenever. But with everyone window shopping around town, you have to try and lock your kids in before they see something else they like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickboy Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 What are you shopping for that you are going to find out at tryouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YardSale Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 29 minutes ago, stickboy said: What are you shopping for that you are going to find out at tryouts? offers on a team that is good enough for Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gatz Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 There are plenty of ways the tryout season could work. The current model is basically a free agency free for all. I am not sure that's not the best. It let's the kids play where they want to play and lets organizations build teams. Players have to be selective with where they tryout and have commitment fees at stake if they want to play the field. The system isn't perfect, but it works. Thinking through potential alternatives each have their own issues. The independent teams add a layer of complexity, for a league like the PAHL, they could have some league rules tryouts/offers. (of course those rules would have to approved by organizations, who are not likely to vote against their interest). Option 1--An offer clearinghouse. It could work like residency placements for doctors. Players tryout at different places. Players and organizations submit priority list to the clearinghouse and the clearinghouse matches players with teams. Players have no choice but to play for that team. Does anyone really want this and trust the clearinghouse? Talk about taking away a coaches role in building a team. Option 2--Impose geographical boundaries on team formations. Any takers? Option 3--Schedule tryouts so there are few overlaps and require organizations to keep offers open until league-wide commitment date. No organization would vote for this and it likely would lead to lots of supplementals. I'm sure there are other approaches, but I can't think of any that improve on the current approach. The current approach maximizes the individual player's freedom of choice. Some of those choices have consequences... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, stickboy said: What are you shopping for that you are going to find out at tryouts? Actually not really any one thing. That's the point. Who are the coaches, does the kid fit in with the other kids, location, do the tryouts show that they will have a enough for a team or was turnout weak, what team will the kid place on, what kind of schedule will there be (will practices or out-of-town travel conflict with school hockey).... There's lots of stuff. Things change year to year everywhere. Whether the kid has stuck with one team for his whole life or played for a few, sometimes kids or a parent want to explore a change. And sometimes they don't, and that works out also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Politics Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Everyone this time of year thinks they become a mastermind. Organizations, parents, and players. We all make it the free-for-all James Gatz mentioned, and everyone wonders why there are so many disgruntled people out there. There has to be a better system than this one. You have organizations saying "come play for us, we're AA" without returning anyone or even knowing who will be on their team! Silly. However, they do that because a parent won't let their kid play there if that organization was honest and said "we won't know our level until kids come to tryouts, accept, AND STAY on the team." Why? "Maybe there is a higher level team out there you get on, Billy." To the "staying on the team" part, I don't know why organizations just don't charge a higher, non-refundable commitment fee to dissuade players from jumping after accepting. Yeah, so more well-off family may be willing to eat that fee, but it's less likely to happen if it really hurts. A $300 deposit is chump change compared to what this sport costs anyone on an annual basis. And more and more people are willing to eat that fee no matter the cost. James Gatz, I like any of those options better than this crapshow, but good luck getting anyone to jump on them. What about having a fourth option where independent organizations go first, then have a week off, then PAHL AA, then PAHL A/B, THEN supplementals? PAHL can't regulate the independents, but they can regulate their members. Logically, it should be AAA, then AA, then A, then supplementals for teams that need players to fill teams. I agree with the original premise, though: This overlapping (especially with supplementals taking place before other organizations even have tryouts) is bunk. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 I do recall seeing the guy with the Huskies account say in s post here that they will wait to see what they have before claiming a certain level. Or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Politics Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I didn't see that, but kudos to them. We need more of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyFan6687 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 What exactly is in an offer beyond the spot on the roster? I love how some talk about receiving offers like they need to discuss with their agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 16 minutes ago, HockeyFan6687 said: What exactly is in an offer beyond the spot on the roster? I love how some talk about receiving offers like they need to discuss with their agent. Some of them sadly probably do pay some snake out there to advise them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 39 minutes ago, HockeyFan6687 said: What exactly is in an offer beyond the spot on the roster? I love how some talk about receiving offers like they need to discuss with their agent. Knowing the most you can about what you're paying for and committing to is a fair ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Going to hazard a guess that hockey ops in the various orgs got tired of trying to form a team and making offers to kids playing the tryout circuit and getting turned down. Used to be you made the top team, you stayed. I think its selfish to try out somewhere you have no intentions of playing for, and that happens a lot, people keeping their kids feet moving for school tryouts, too. You mess things up pretty badly for the org and there is a ripple effect....that offer could have been made to a kid who wanted it, now you want to offer to that kid but they've moved on. Too much power is in the hands of parents around here. I know you all like it. It's not that way everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRamRod Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I always thought it'd be nice if teams made offers before tryouts to the players they wanted to keep in order to dial down on some of the chaos. I know baseball clubs that do that and it works out for everyone. Then you see parents signing up their kids for 3-4 tryouts because off their own paranoia of being 'left out' if everyone else leaves. I always felt bad for the kids getting dragged around to multiple tryouts, especially the ones who got cut a few times and had to keep going. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Politics Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, TeamRamRod said: I always thought it'd be nice if teams made offers before tryouts to the players they wanted to keep in order to dial down on some of the chaos. I know baseball clubs that do that and it works out for everyone. Then you see parents signing up their kids for 3-4 tryouts because off their own paranoia of being 'left out' if everyone else leaves. I always felt bad for the kids getting dragged around to multiple tryouts, especially the ones who got cut a few times and had to keep going. That's a very interesting thought. The only drawback I can think of is that a lot of organizations/coaches may not have the heart/balls to tell the kids they don't want to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihearthockey Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, TeamRamRod said: I always thought it'd be nice if teams made offers before tryouts to the players they wanted to keep in order to dial down on some of the chaos. I know baseball clubs that do that and it works out for everyone. Then you see parents signing up their kids for 3-4 tryouts because off their own paranoia of being 'left out' if everyone else leaves. I always felt bad for the kids getting dragged around to multiple tryouts, especially the ones who got cut a few times and had to keep going. I like this idea. You know you have a team and are provided something in writing, however you still need to tryout for the organization so that the coaches can make accurate comparisons of potential new players. And if you don't have the heart to tell kids...sorry you're not cutting it, then maybe you're not cut out to be a coach. I know a kid who was the leading scorer on his team last year and thought he had a good relationship with the coach and decided to only try out for that team because that's the only place he wanted to play (it was a PAHL team). Low and behold, he was cut for a bunch of "ringers" and now he's scrambling to find something. Just a crappy situation to be in. Edited April 26 by Ihearthockey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 You would no longer be able to say that you are having "open" tryouts. Although that is basically a farce for most places, but would cut into try out fees generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, Saucey said: You would no longer be able to say that you are having "open" tryouts. Although that is basically a farce for most places, but would cut into try out fees generated. There is no such thing as open tryouts when the coach carries over year to year. Or at best, there's very, very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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