Rewster

I don’t know Jeff Docking. I never met him. All I do know, is that he almost pulled off the exact same feat at W&J as he is currently doing at Adrian. Just didn’t quite get the overall push like he wanted from the school. As far as I know/remember, he was thee entire reason W&J had a brief, but illustrious ACHA college hockey flash in the pan. He was the reason why W&J acquired their own Iceoplex locker room, training room,, everything that comes with a traditional legitimate college hockey program during a time where it just didn’t happen (unless you were NCAA).

Does anyone remember Life University back in the 1990s early 2000s? They “were” (I honestly don’t know anymore) a chiropractic school in Georgia that somehow managed to lure in a team full of ringers from Canada that nobody knew anything about. They dominated out of nowhere for several seasons.

Are we talking about one game? You know (as well as I know) that it “could” be the #1 team in the nation playing #50 from EBF Wherever, Iowa. If the inferior team has a goalie standing on his/her head whilst making unconscious saves on multiple occasions…and team Numero Uno starts having internal struggles with who gets the puck and coach starts panicking by switching up linemates (only to hinder offensive production and impede defensive responsibilities) it can inevitably come down to who’s going to blink first. When you have that large of a disparity in rankings…and the longer the time goes where the margin on the scoreboard is negligible…the more likely that the higher ranked team implodes and the lower ranked team builds esteem and momentum.

I think that there’s two different understanding of the title “MidAms” on this thread. One is the MidAm tournament that leads directly into Nationals. Tier 1 and Tier 2. The other is individual tryouts for MidAms that lead to the National Developmental Team. While scrolling through this thread it’s challenging to follow along. Different interpretations by a lot of people. With that said. Armstrong 18U AA wins today against Mt Lebanon 18U AA 5-2 (empty net goal) to move on to nationals. The competition at by all of the representative PAHL teams was outstanding, in my opinion. This season was one of the best in terms of competitive balance by the top 5-6 teams in AA as I can recall. It’s a shame that only one PAHL team gets to go on to nationals. This league was probably as deep as its ever been. Best of luck to the PAHL 18U AA Champions— Armstrong Arrows as they move on to USA Nationals in Delmont, PA.

Yes, I remember when I first learned about the joint school in Indianapolis. But, it looks like they are about to abruptly end the school. They still can’t get along, I guess 🤷🏼‍♂️ https://fox59.com/news/indiana-university-and-purdue-officially-are-set-to-end-iupui-next-summer/#:~:text=IUPUI will officially end on,businesses and communities of Indianapolis.

I appreciate what you’re saying. I understand that there could potentially be a couple of unruly parents who complain. That’s true…but it’s already true. There’s already plenty of parents complaining to the coaches (and organizational board members) about playing time, line mates, position changes, defensive pairings, offensive attack schemes, breakouts, power play and PK theories, goaltending matchups, uniform color combinations, even injury severity scale and concussion evaluations, etc. There’s also people complaining about how some rinks have their own referees that prefer to dish out their home cooking differently to their guests. There’s always going to be complaints from parents. It’s always happened. The question I have: What happens when we’re at the crossroads where the parents start complaining about how Fair Play Points are tabulated and the evidence of their existence? Are we expecting everyone to accept the assumption that whomever is keeping track of the Fair Play Points number at every league game is going to be 100% accurate all season? How can you know that for certain? I’m not sure about everyone else, but, sometimes I like to count/add things up on my own. Without having someone tell me that it is what they say it is. All I’m saying is that there’s got to be some transparency here. I’m not talking about the 10U, or 12U, or even the 14U age groups and publishing all of their statistics. I’m only suggesting that the way that the PAHL has been reactionary in removing game sheets (which also include the individual player and team penalty minutes) is counterintuitive to even what “Fair” means. Remember, these become more important as the levels of play become more competitive and the talent pool of distinguishing characteristics thins out. It might be more difficult for a goal scorer to stand out during a AAA/Jr tryout that consists of 100 kids and only gets few shifts here and there with kids that he’s never played with. But, if he has the recent (and somewhat documented) history that shows he’s a goal-scorer (or playmaker, or whatever) from a competitive league…that will demonstrate more of an overall (and helpful picture) than the snapshot of a tryout where they’re trying to even figure out what position everyone is playing on their team. My bottom line is: I hope that the PAHL does an internal evaluation and compare it with best practices that other leagues have been using for a while.

Yeah, I know. The CHMA conference sucks. It was a rivalry joke between Purdue and Indiana. When you’re in western PA and say “Indiana” you have to preface that you’re talking about the state of Indiana, or Indiana University. Otherwise, most people assume that you’re referring to Indiana, PA. Which, was part of the obviously bad joke on my end. Purdue University (Branch Campus) vs Indiana University (of Pennsylvania). It would probably go over better in Indiana—I mean the state, not the town in PA.

Wait, wait a minute. Purdue has an oblique directional school?…that has a hockey team? Like, Purdue University…The Boilermakers, in Indiana…only with a twisted sub-directional name after it. I bet that when the locals heard that Indiana University of Pennsylvania was coming in, it really pissed off the Purdue alumni. They were probably thinking that Indiana University was able to conquer and establish a branch school in Pennsylvania. No wonder the lob sided score.

Right. Or just form a new team that’s in Pittsburgh and in the same league…only run it ethically and legitimately. I mean, how much can the franchise fee actually cost? $250?

I’d say that there’s probably a sizable disparity at 3A and 2A divisions as well. I mean, the coaching staffs at all of the 3A schools really have the ability (or at least a lot of leeway) in hand-picking the best players in Eastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey. They aren’t hemmed in by school district borders with nothing but the luck of the draw when they see who shows up at tryouts. I’m not seeing the even playing field when you have Flyers Cup 3A coach at Parochial Prep HS show up at a Bantam (or maybe younger than 14U) showcase with a bunch of enticing Parochial Prep merch, and freebies while sniffing out the top end hockey players and parents…telling them that he can assist with admissions, fundraising, sponsorships for their son and how it’s so much better playing hockey with him at Parochial Prep rather than playing at Hoboken HS. I don’t know what the solution is exactly; but you gotta believe that there’s the potential to have all kinds of corruption going on when you basically have a small college atmosphere and can recruit players under the guise of “Student-Athletes.” I could be way off base (I do not have any first hand knowledge—just stories I’ve heard from others). But, I think that it’s naive to think that there’s no in-season tampering, or maybe even under the table money exchanges going to some players for “X”, or for after school jobs that don’t exist. It really is something special when the occasional Pens Cup winner bests Eastern PAs Flyers Cup champion.

So, looking at all of the AAA schools in Eastern Pennsylvania playing for the Flyers Cup…all of the schools listed are private schools. They don’t have one public school with a delineated line that separates one school district from another. I think that I even read some names on the school rosters with birthplaces/hometowns that are not even in Pennsylvania. It’s weird because when you look at the Western Pennsylvania AAA school rosters, you don’t see where their hometowns are located…because (with the exception of only 2 schools—Cathedral Prep and Central Catholic), it’s already known where they live.

It no longer works *because it ONLY shows the players’ names and games played—it does not show anything else at all. It’s like for the PAHL to use Sports Engine, they have to include something in their website data. So, if you think about it…what’s the least bit of information that we can make public and still get away with “providing data” to Sports Engine and meet their criteria. That would be listing names and games played. The PAHL made a conscious decision to close the loophole when it became public knowledge that the game sheets were available for everyone to see. I’ll maintain my view on this. What was wrong with keeping the status quo? Nobody complained about it. Nobody was up in arms because Timmy had an extra assist; or Bobby was an Apple shy of a Playmaker Award—do they still give these awards out? Probably not, if nobody knows. My whole contention was the PAHL is deliberately removing, or hiding information that was once public. It’s information that is obviously tabulated and recorded. It’s information that other Tier 2 competitive leagues make readily available. It’s not the professional level of analytics that we’re talking about. It’s just the basics of what hockey has always used when scoring. It’s the equivalent of removing the baseball scorekeeper and scoresheets.

Did you go in after the game started? I know that some schools use parent volunteers to work the front gate and charge admission. So, as soon as the game starts (maybe even warmups), they close up shop quickly in order to watch their kids play.

Yes, that is one reason that I have also heard. The other main reason that have heard (as to why the gag order was implemented to ban statistical publication of the teams and players) was due to fear of parents becoming unruly and complaining about the inaccuracies in shots/saves, assists, goals, etc and the obvious omission from the parents’ expertise. All I know is that these things happen all over North American youth hockey. The successful leagues have a policy in place that addresses disputes in a timely and efficient manner. Either reason that is given as to why they don’t maintain public transparency with statistical data, are both based on the primary tenant of “fear.” Instead of the league awarding an individual trophy for most points, or most goals, or most assists by a forward and/or defenseman/defensewoman; they give out the “participation trophy” equivalency by removing evidence of their existence. Life is a competition. People keep score. Oftentimes, it validates one’s hard work, effort, and commitment to obtaining a team’s success through the individual effort of the 6-person unit at any one time on the ice.

LiveBarn allows you access of the games from this past weekend at Belmont Complex…which reminds me…I hope that I didn’t just ruin it for everyone if PAHL shuts it down now. Do you think they will now black it out so that nobody can go back and watch? Would you be surprised?

There was a glitch in the reporting of the game scores this season for most of the year. You actually could click on the individual games and have access to the digital game sheets and summaries. Nobody complained about it. It was actually pretty nice to see something other than just the final score of each game. Once the league caught wind of their loophole of their statistical lockdown; they sewed it up for good. If there was any one person that complained about the score sheets being open to the public…well, it was the PAHL (obviously). Someone who monitors these boards and has the ability to remove the players’ individual competitiveness. The player statistics were obviously being tabulated and recorded. Why not be transparent about it? Hockey is a team game where keeping score is important. The Fair Play Points make a big difference down the stretch and sometimes it’s what makes teams more or less competitive depending on how aggressive they can be. The game sheets also show these penalties, minutes, and tabulations of the FPP. Without transparency, corruption has a haven.

The person/people in charge of PAHL’s social media presence are currently stuck in paralysis by analysis mode after re-reading this paragraph all day. I’d be surprised if those calling the shots in the PAHL even understand how vast the gulf exists between them and other leagues (i.e. AHF) when we compare their current platforms…then consider the enticement of anonymity to attract the best players in the region. What better way to generate local/regional buzz and draw high-end hockey, than to highlight their teams and players through a package deal with their nonexistent marketing and promotional teams. It’s almost like there’s quite a bit of shame going on over there. They’re actively trying to suppress any information from being leaked out to the public. Interesting philosophy to not want to routinely field the best teams with the best players that Western Pennsylvania has locally grown. If this is the way they are going…then maybe they should mandate the removal of nameplates from the back of the league’s team jerseys too? Id love not knowing who is who while watching games (I’m being facetious). It’d be like watching the Yankees, Red Sox, or Penn State football…only without a program that tells you who’s wearing what number.

You’re correct. But, it basically boils down to the clingiest of clingers to the last thread of any competitive hockey that they’re going to play in their lifetime. I get it (mostly). It’s basically, this is what the culmination of all of those years having fun and working hard is going to be as the competitive apex. For most guys, it’s high school, possibly ACHA D-Whatever for a couple/few years before booze and chicks enter the equation…then that’s it. It ramps up fast; starting at bantam > then U16 > then U18 levels. I’m not really sure that most parents and youth players coming up even realize that it now takes 1-2 of Junior hockey after high school to be legitimate for any reputable ACHA D1 hockey. It was just starting to go that way in the early 2000s when I played. But, that was also the time ACHA D1 layed the foundation in order to shed the “club hockey” stigma…and also started getting players into pro leagues like the ECHL. The landscape has changed quite a bit over the past 20-25 years. I remember when the ECHL was just above the delineation line of what was considered “professional.” $250/wk paycheck was a standard E contract (unless you were under an AHL contract…which was more liveable). It’s all so fleeting when you think about it.

I don’t think that detail matters. Any age group is one too many…

8 out of the 11 AAA teams are in the playoffs. The top 4 seeds host the corresponding bottom 5-8 seeds. I believe that a points tie breaker is: highest win percentage of the teams tied (head-to-head); Total number of Wins …then, then least penalty minutes,

I’m happy to see that they appear to be planning to do a complete review of the current rules—with the antiquated rules theoretically being updated/modernized and the wording to be revised accordingly for clarity and to reduce misunderstanding. At least, I interpreted it as such. In my opinion, the very first step in solving a problem…is to acknowledge that there “may/might” be a problem. The troublesome thing that is apparent to me is that they’re still living in their fears and are motivated by reactionary thinking. But, I am encouraged by the direction that they’re taking with their actions.

Kinda like the PIHL does? The high school league has OT; and if it’s not decided by the completion of regulation or overtime…then, a shootout incurs to determine the winner. That would be fun too.

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Wow! I had no idea that it was that big! So, would you say (if you were to put the teams in competitive classification order; or from top to bottom: Varsity>Junior Varsity>Junior Gold A>Junior Gold B? -or- 1.) Varsity 2.) Junior Varsity 3.) Junior Gold ‘A’ 4.) Junior Gold ‘B’ Just to be clear with what I am learning…You’re saying that if we took the best AAA High School team in Western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh) PIHL; they would obviously get their doors blown off by atop end Varsity squad (i.e. Edina Varsity) without any doubt…then they would most likely lose by 2-3+ goals to their ‘traditional’ Junior Varsity team…and only maybe then, they would have a competitive game against the high school’s “Team #3,” or the Junior Gold ‘A’ squad. Which aligns with how things squared up this past weekend—Edina defeated PT in the semifinals in OT 4-3…and also defeated NA 2-1 in double OT. So, in other words…the Penguins Cup Champion in AAA (or even AA) would be relegated to the equivalent of sub-JV competition if everybody were suddenly reshuffled. That’s saying quite a lot and is very humbling to put it into perspective.

Edina High School (Minnesota) is as legitimate of a high school hockey program as there is. I remember seeing a thread about someone saying that they routinely have 100-150 players come out for tryouts each year. I don’t remember the details, and from what I’ve heard, this team that won the Hoosier Tournament (pictured above) is not the high school’s top team. Does anyone have any other information? It blows my mind to recognize how much hockey talent is produced in the state of Minnesota each year…and their players are getting D1 offers straight out of HS. No need to play amateur hockey, or (in a lot of cases) really no need to play junior hockey.