Saucey

I am sorry for your boy's experience. That scenario happens all over, regardless of how the rising BY ended up in AA. (Coach, parents, PAHL.) I remember hearing another organization's coach berating his young team because they couldn't beat my kid's older team, since my kids' team was horrible, in his opinion. It was terrible to hear, wasn't their fault. A year when they are young sometimes makes a huge difference in skill, not to mention size differences. Beware the sale of the BY model. Pittsburgh's market is not Michigan or Canada. They have the numbers to put similar talent, same BY. It's growing, but until all the organizations can field similar talent in one BY, it's like banging your head against the wall to put those teams together, and if your organization did it, how many others managed? People who push for that, someone mentioned, you have to be a little leery of. Maybe because their kid wouldn't play in AA otherwise, so they know they can boot the older kid down who would have normally been on Team 2 mixed BY. Kids develop at different rates. ?‍♂️ Shocker, but some of the ten year olds your kid plays with now might get better than your kid at 12, and vice versa. There is nothing wrong with that, there are good hockey experiences around here at all levels, and it's a sport worth playing even if you are not AA or AAA or whatever. To assume kids should all stay together because all their Moms and Dads got it on that year may not help some of them develop in the long run. You are right about the coaches and team make up. Some organizations do a better job of putting good coaches at all levels than others, but it sure is a tough job for an unpaid one.

That's my point, that rising year by shouldn't be playing AA except in Bantam, where it is specifically set up to do so and again I feel that is debatable since the small organizations can't always field a pure by team. Again, PAHL is not set up for by. You are going to do it, you have to try for A Major Black. They get beat up on all year by the older kids, you don't keep them the next year. But the organizations feel compelled to offer them because that is what parents want. My boys have gained a lot playing on mixed by teams over the years, there is something to be said from learning from your peers and having an older player or two pushing you.

Ain't that the truth.

This. It's not advertised well by PAHL. For Western PA, at the scheduling meeting preseason, Darcee asks AA teams who is interested. If you don't know what it is, a coach could be taken off guard. Not sure how the selection goes from there or how many teams signal their interest, but I wasn't under the impression that there is a stampede of teams wanting to do it. I think I've seen it mentioned in PAHL meeting notes, too, so your organization's liason may have been told to send word back to the AA coaches that they are to tell PAHL if interested. Not everyone wants to do a tournament at this time or travel east/west. For 14u, Allegheny's ranking may not be great in comparison to the other teams, but they have improved a lot over the season as reflected by recent scores and competitive games, so they very well could be a sleeper team, which would be fun. That age group tended to have its good games and bad games and be a little inconsistent in general this season, as reflected by the standings. Tight race to make the playoffs. MHR isn't the be all end all, but it is helpful. And at 16u...that is when tournaments seem to become very dicey as the number of kids playing travel hockey seems to significantly diminish as they exit the sport, so who knows what the interest level was. I remember this question being asked on this board by a coach from the East of the state at the beginning of the season, and it seemed there is a different selection process out there. Here, your AA coaches need to have it on their radar right from the beginning. If it is the year where your age group has to go East, I bet some coaches don't want to use it as a travel tourney. My oldest did it once, and both my kids are doing it this year. I wasn't under the impression that teams are knocking down PAHL's door to do it, so there might not be much 'selection'. PAHL pays for half of it, so there should be interest, I would think. It's an odd time of year, and I don't know what interest there is on either side of the state to travel. It is a fun concept...you only play teams from the other side of the state, so it's not like you travel far to play the Foxes, which I hate when you meet a local team at a travel tourney. So it is ok to root for your fellow PAHL teams to beat those Eastern teams. ? PAHL could do a much better job of advertising it and talking it up. I've seen a lot of bewildered faces at the scheduling meeting when she asks. And is it even mentioned on the website?

I don't know for sure, but it is possible to have two BY teams in the same division because again, PAHL is only set up for BY at Bantam. The younger team is at risk of being misplaced...they see oh, this team has a bunch of AAs and sticks the younger AA in AA, where they get slaughtered by all the other older BY teams. I think a few organizations caught it this year and got the younger BY team moved down into A Major Black.

Most AA for every org consist of the oldest BY. Some organizations (NP, Renegades, Foxes) also advertise a BY for the rising kids. (11 year olds in 12u.) The only BY team sanctioned by PAHL is at 13u, to make first year of checking safer, but they still let a certain percentage of the older BY on because not every organization can actually field pure BY teams. (Shooting any safety argument in the foot since the 13 year olds are still facing 14 year olds on the ice.) As a result, at bantam there is an AA major and AA minor divisions. You get an uneven mess imo for play for BY. The BY teams frequently get misplaced by PAHL, again because it is not set up in PAHL to accommodate BY. Some people advocate for BY to 'keep kids together' from year to year but there is no guarantee kids will stay. It depends on the organization, if they are fielding that. Supposed to be the best in that year.

The Director of Hockey Ops is the place to start with most organizations, he or she can try to get an idea of what level your kid may play and then give an idea about next season. You can ask when practice slots may be, because the programs should have an idea of what ice they will have. And you can watch a practice or two on live barn. As far as middle school goes, FYI depending on the size of your school district, he may not make it this year if he is a 7th grader. PIHL limits the number of the younger kids on the team.

I agree that Excel as a requirement is going to lead to recruiting with fewer local players at Pens. Soon as that initiative was announced I thought that. Pens are a business. They have to compete with all the other AAA programs that get access to more talent. I really think they should stay out of the lower levels, let those kids develop in PAHL. Kids shouldn't be labeled elite that young, we all know they may not stay there, but frequently, they always think they are and become uncoachable players or exit the sport entirely. Your ideas are interesting. I think the market is so fractured, with a few too many egos to get it going, it would be difficult to implement. And PAHL's goal is not to create AAA players...I would hate the focus to move from development of all kids to enjoy hockey to just focusing on the top. That is a legit criticism of some of the PAHL teams running these independent teams....no focus on any other level or development from the bottom up starting at a young age. I would rather see the AAA initative come from USA hockey. And teams are doing this, some of them play PAHL games as a tournament. It ends up being too many games imo, the independent schedule and PAHL. Maybe broaden the scope of PAHL at the top tier to include some games with top teams from the surrounding states. I guess that would require PAHL involvement. Some hybrid, where individual teams aren't in charge of scheduling, but not as intensive with a lower number of games than I see some of the independent teams playing. The kids doing this are frequently toast by the end of the season. I would rather do that then play these silly tournaments, where you hold your breathe to know if the competition will be good, no matter how much research you did.

I can only tell you what my kid says, and I don't think it was an option offered as 'best', just an option. He was worked and felt like he learned something. Other kids at the camp gave similar feed back. I know nothing about Yuri beyond that. It's a week long camp. You aren't going to see huge changes in play there, or any camp. I would say the same things about many other camps offered around town.

For people who don't know, Interel is Yuri. The camp was very good.

I am not sure, but seemed aimed at AA/AAA level, so probably.

My boy did Interel last year and really liked it. Lot of good feedback from parents. Pens run some good ones, too.

How about entertained? Ask a simple question, get abuse in return, per your usual. You go, tough guy.

So, The King, why go back and react to old posts of mine in dead threads? Been away for a while, catching up on reading the forum?

You know, the couple of you pretending that you don't understand this....you do. The poster who said 'don't be an a$#hole' summed it up. If there was no apparent outcry about it, I am guessing that the foot was taken off the gas at some point.

Adults don't enjoy this. Not do I see what the benefit is to either team. The only lesson learned is that there are huge jerks in the world. I don't see why this has to be learned in this context. I don't know how many lopsided games I've played in where some D bag ringer runs up the score, takes a slap shot aimed at the goalie's head in the last few minutes of a game, runs the goalie, etc. You know what usually happens in those games? Fights. Injuries. For what reason and purpose? There is none. The person is a jerk. If adults struggle to handle this kind of situation, then why are we surprised when our kids start to behave badly when faced with the same? It's unacceptable. It is the definition of a poor winner and an example of a really bad coach. How do you develop your kids and program with only a few players seeing ice time in a game? It can't be justified. Anyone defending it....guess you are the D bag in my games and I'll be seeing your kid doing the same thing in a few years.

Wow. Thanks for sharing that report. I am going to go play the lottery since my prediction that parents will not be permitted to watch is now within the refs hands. Section b under security guards allows them to remove a whole section of spectators, regardless of whether you did anything or not. I saw this happen at a recent tournament in New York, so I bet it isn't a new idea. A 14 year old ref made a whole section leave and he wouldn't drop the puck till they left. There were two dads complaining about calls in that section...I think one from each team. A parent from the NY team told me that all youth sports were cracking down in the area after a fight at a high School basketball game that resulted in numerous injuries. That young ref wasn't messing around. He called a pretty good game, too. Removing parents might be effective. The majority of parents who don't behave badly might speak up against the ones that do, not wanting to get kicked out, or urge their organization to prevent that person from coming. Policing from within.

I bet some quit playing, too. They lose interest once they feel like they aren't going anywhere, go to college, etc.

Whoah. Take it easy big guy. Sheesh. Didn't realize I attacked anyone. I just think people suck these days, and it may very well get to the point where they all get booted from rinks. Can't keep refs, coaches are getting harder to come by....and it is parents who are the biggest problem in any survey. They ruin my experience so frequently that yes, I'd rather sit at home and watch it on the crap Livebarn. And it is crap. I love hockey, I love watching my kids....it is so bad to me, the way people behave, that I stay home a lot. What you say I completely agree with. However, people don't feel the need to control themselves anymore. If I tell an out of control parent in the stands to be quiet, I am told to shut up, they have the right to say what ever they want... even where it is clear they are out of line. Everyone is entitled and has rights. So, I avoid a lot. I'm tired of it. I think no matter what PIHL does, parents are going to continue to suck. Because I see the same behaviors outside of the rink, too. I've lost faith in people. Or I am just really getting old.

People won't be happy until they are completely banned from entering the stands. Livebarn is making that possible....drop kids off and make everyone go home. Our kids will be better off. Parents are a huge part of why I really like watching at home.

Actually, I was kind of thinking why not go to the source instead of whining, complaining, and being an a** on here. My bad.

Why don't you contact someone on the Board in PAHL instead of randomly asking this board if you really need to know?

I'm interested as well. That is not the training I remember getting from USA hockey and I know my organization does not condone this. You might still get a coach who does it, regardless.

Or they could quit the independent thing and simply restore those kids to PAHL. Or not field AA teams when they put that talent on the independent team.

At 12u coaches shouldn't have a power play unit and top lines yet. Chasing the banner over development. Parents should be pissed if that is going on. Every kid should be getting opportunities to do all these things.