Clonbur Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Another year.... another mass exodus. This has been going 4 years in a row. When will the board resign to save the organization from imminent peril? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey00 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Isn’t this similar to what happened to mon valley, ice miners, Westmoreland eagles? all losing teams rapidly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonbur Posted March 29, 2022 Author Share Posted March 29, 2022 They all survived. I don't think the Vipers have a chance with this board at the helm. They seem to be purposefully chasing people away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadday4hockey Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Players and organizations went there for the cheap ice rate. That's why Esmark did everything they could to move, the new pricing severely cut into their profit margins. You have to have something really good to get people to drive to that area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUCKCOVID19 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said: Players and organizations went there for the cheap ice rate. That's why Esmark did everything they could to move, the new pricing severely cut into their profit margins. You have to have something really good to get people to drive to that area. where they going to go that can give them as much ice as they need though? I dont think anywhere else could house them and give them what they want. bet their fees go up next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 What years are we talking? Why is everyone leaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 15 hours ago, Clonbur said: They all survived. I don't think the Vipers have a chance with this board at the helm. They seem to be purposefully chasing people away. You seem to have a beef with the Vipers! Why don't you just come out with it rather than trying to hint at the problems! Obviously you have a problem with the board. Why don't you just say what you are thinking? What's wrong with the board? Between the Vipers and Viper Stars they seem to have more teams than most of the smaller organizations! I'd say that they have a lot of competition for kids from SCIR, now Vengenance, North Pittsburgh, Only so many kids to go around and with the increase in so called AA & AAA it takes kids out of the PAHL at an early age. They certainly are not the Aviators, or Huskies that are set up for 1 or 2 select teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMR24 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Lol. There hasn’t even been tryouts yet… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAR48 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I’m not sure where you are getting your information from but players come and go from every organization. We haven’t even started tryouts yet. People think the grass is greener elsewhere. No one is perfect and we are all volunteers doing our best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUCKCOVID19 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 remark won't let the vipers go under. they need them just so they can register under their use hockey numbers. thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMR24 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JAR48 said: I’m not sure where you are getting your information from but players come and go from every organization. We haven’t even started tryouts yet. People think the grass is greener elsewhere. No one is perfect and we are all volunteers doing our best. Add to the fact that very few ppl volunteer their time on the board or to coach. It’s so easy to sit in the cheap seats to critique. And let’s not forget parents/coaches/board members who leave in a huff because their child did not make the team THE PARENT thought they should make. Really leaves the rest of the volunteers in a bind, don’t take think. And, yes, I am on the board. I play a small role but it still takes up a mass amount of my time. And I can honestly tell you that the board works towards doing what’s best for the children who play there. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. Do we strive to be better? Of course. Is there room for improvement? Always. @Clonbur, if you’d like to sit down and have a talk about your apparent negative experience with the Vipers/board, I’m always willing to have an adult conversation. Edited March 30, 2022 by AMR24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, AMR24 said: Add to the fact that very few ppl volunteer their time on the board or to coach. It’s so easy to sit in the cheap seats to critique. And let’s not forget parents/coaches/board members who leave in a huff because their child did not make the team THE PARENT thought they should make. Really leaves the rest of the volunteers in a bind, don’t take think. And, yes, I am on the board. I play a small role but it still takes up a mass amount of my time. And I can honestly tell you that the board works towards doing what’s best for the children who play there. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. Do we strive to be better? Of course. Is there room for improvement? Always. @Clonbur, if you’d like to sit down and have a talk about your apparent negative experience with the Vipers/board, I’m always willing to have an adult conversation. Awesome response. You are not hiding behind a screen name throwing unwarranted jabs. I hope he responds to you privately and is able to discuss his grievances. From what I have heard the Vipers are a great organization working for all the kids! Through trying times with the new rink owners! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonbur Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 21 hours ago, AMR24 said: Add to the fact that very few ppl volunteer their time on the board or to coach. It’s so easy to sit in the cheap seats to critique. And let’s not forget parents/coaches/board members who leave in a huff because their child did not make the team THE PARENT thought they should make. Really leaves the rest of the volunteers in a bind, don’t take think. And, yes, I am on the board. I play a small role but it still takes up a mass amount of my time. And I can honestly tell you that the board works towards doing what’s best for the children who play there. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. Do we strive to be better? Of course. Is there room for improvement? Always. @Clonbur, if you’d like to sit down and have a talk about your apparent negative experience with the Vipers/board, I’m always willing to have an adult conversation. If you are on the Board... you should resign. You are not doing anything to help the organization. You have years of bad decisions. We left a few years ago. I went to a board meeting to address issues and it was a joke. I heard the same "the grass isn't greener comment" which is you mantra. It is greener. Much much greener. The board does not do what's best for development. I've witnessed 80 kids on one sheet of ice, board member kids get put on better teams above their skill level, teams being forced to play down because they don't want to go "Stars" and pay more money for the same amount of Ice and instruction, 80 kids in an ADM program 4 years ago and I can only name 8 that are still skating for the Vipers. You are now on your 4th year of mass exodus. RESIGN. You are doing no favors to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonbur Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 20 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said: Awesome response. You are not hiding behind a screen name throwing unwarranted jabs. I hope he responds to you privately and is able to discuss his grievances. From what I have heard the Vipers are a great organization working for all the kids! Through trying times with the new rink owners! I've never hid. I've said my piece to the board members when we went there. The Vipers even have board members leaving for other organizations this year. You would think that would wake up some of them. It is run by a few that now collect a stipend that they refuse to relinquish. They aren't doing it for the kids. I look forward to another organization moving into PICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Clonbur said: I've never hid. I've said my piece to the board members when we went there. The Vipers even have board members leaving for other organizations this year. You would think that would wake up some of them. It is run by a few that now collect a stipend that they refuse to relinquish. They aren't doing it for the kids. I look forward to another organization moving into PICE. If it is so bad, I would have expected some others who shared your experience to come on here to share your complaints. If you are so worried about it why don't you run for a board position? There are always unhappy people who complain but aren't willing to be part of a solution. So where are you now that it is much greener? I admire the people who are willing to spend their time with these youth organizations even if they get a small stipend that hardly pays for their time and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadday4hockey Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Whoever may be left on the board answer to Kosick and Posey. Esmark will be fine, Viper Stars maybe too but it will be very interesting to see which of these folks is correct regarding the Vipers PAHL based teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonbur Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said: If it is so bad, I would have expected some others who shared your experience to come on here to share your complaints. If you are so worried about it why don't you run for a board position? There are always unhappy people who complain but aren't willing to be part of a solution. So where are you now that it is much greener? I admire the people who are willing to spend their time with these youth organizations even if they get a small stipend that hardly pays for their time and effort. 1. I never knew about this site until about a month ago. I doubt any of those who left know about this site nor care to post. It's not going to change anything and neither will my post. It's unfortunate that the members of the board still think they are doing a good job when the organization is crumbing around them. 2. I learned very quickly that the decision makers are the top 3-4 who get the stipend, they have kids in Esmark or no longer in development levels, and this board doesn't have open elections (you are invited by other board members) aka not a democratic process. 3. Doesn't matter where we are. We needed to leave so that my child had more choices and placed in the proper skill level. His choices before we left were to be forced into AA Stars or A minor 3. All of the other talent left the organization the year prior. If I went to any other PAHL organization in the area we would be in greener pastures. 4. I do above my fare share of volunteerism to all organizations my kids are involved with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, Clonbur said: His choices before we left were to be forced into AA Stars or A minor 3. Curious as to why you word it as being "forced" into AA Stars? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonbur Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said: Whoever may be left on the board answer to Kosick and Posey. Esmark will be fine, Viper Stars maybe too but it will be very interesting to see which of these folks is correct regarding the Vipers PAHL based teams. 35 minutes ago, forbin said: Curious as to why you word it as being "forced" into AA Stars? Because my kid is not a AA player and neither was 1/2 the team they accepted at the time. Next competition level was A minor. All other talent left for greener pastures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, Clonbur said: Because my kid is not a AA player and neither was 1/2 the team they accepted at the time. Next competition level was A minor. All other talent left for greener pastures. So you were specifically looking for A Major it sounds. Isn't that decision made based on PAHL placement games and not at the time of tryouts? How was it determined that the next team available to your son would be A Minor without playing any games? I'm not trying to belittle your decision to change organizations at all, I'm just wondering why you think it was predetermined as it sounds you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonbur Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, forbin said: So you were specifically looking for A Major it sounds. Isn't that decision made based on PAHL placement games and not at the time of tryouts? How was it determined that the next team available to your son would be A Minor without playing any games? I'm not trying to belittle your decision to change organizations at all, I'm just wondering why you think it was predetermined as it sounds you do. It was definitely not the only reason. Unfortunately it's not always as simple as you put it. Viper Stars is a AA program. They were going to get placed into AA if they are competitive at that level or not. They need to market and make their $$. PAIHL also plays the #'s game to make sure the teams have so many in each level. Plus.... If they didn't make AA then we would be paying AA prices as Stars which is more than regular Vipers with minimal difference in ice time. Do you set your kid up to fail? Don't you want your kid (or every kid) to play at the correct skill level? They want to money.... they don't care about the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Clonbur said: It was definitely not the only reason. Unfortunately it's not always as simple as you put it. Viper Stars is a AA program. They were going to get placed into AA if they are competitive at that level or not. They need to market and make their $$. PAIHL also plays the #'s game to make sure the teams have so many in each level. Plus.... If they didn't make AA then we would be paying AA prices as Stars which is more than regular Vipers with minimal difference in ice time. Do you set your kid up to fail? Don't you want your kid (or every kid) to play at the correct skill level? They want to money.... they don't care about the kids. I have without a doubt seen Viper Stars teams placed in PAHL A divisions, so just because they are a AA program doesn't mean they will be automatically placed in AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegDunlop7 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, forbin said: I have without a doubt seen Viper Stars teams placed in PAHL A divisions, so just because they are a AA program doesn't mean they will be automatically placed in AA. Based on my understanding, NHAHA's classifications for its teams are: Esmark (AAA), Viper Stars (Independent or PAHL AA), Vipers (PAHL A/B). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender05 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 12 minutes ago, forbin said: I have without a doubt seen Viper Stars teams placed in PAHL A divisions, so just because they are a AA program doesn't mean they will be automatically placed in AA. yes last year 09s were a major white or gold-not even a major black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegDunlop7 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RegDunlop7 said: Based on my understanding, NHAHA's classifications for its teams are: Esmark (AAA), Viper Stars (Independent or PAHL AA), Vipers (PAHL A/B). Never mind, there are some Viper Stars teams at the PAHL A level. What's the difference between Viper Stars and Vipers then? Edited March 31, 2022 by RegDunlop7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts