What is happening at ALPHA ICE?

[IceMom]

Came here looking for talk about what is happening at Alpha next season and was surprised to not see it mentioned anywhere. 

Rumor (and that may be just it at this point, a rumor!) has it that Vengeance and Renegades are merging, Aviators and Vipers are out and no other organizations will be sold ice time. 

Does someone know enough to set the record straight?

[HatTrick]

I heard the same thing from someone involved with the Renegades and another person involved with the Aviators.  Aviators will still offer their one half ice practice per week but it will be at Shadyside.

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

I'm out of the loop, but I thought there was some loose connection between the Vengeance and Renegades from their days as the Jr Penguins and Amateur Penguins/Eastern. I guess that is not true?

[James Gatz]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but the explanation I heard was that Vengeance is a for profit organization that historically competed as an independent.  Renegades was a non-profit which competed primarily in the PAHL.  Now that the PAHL bylaws permit for profit teams to participate, Vengeance is anticipating expanding and fielding some PAHL teams.  Not sure if Renegades will continue more or less as they are constituted as a lower-commitment option to feed the Vengeance.  I have also heard that Aviators are moving to Shadyside and that some of the SSA coaches will have skills coaching roles with the Aviators.  

Edited January 23 by James Gatz

[zam]

Vengeance isn't really a legit organization it's just a team name.  They don't have the ability to submit USA Hockey rosters on their own so they paid renegades to roster their teams.  Rumour is renegades are rebranding as vengeance for all their teams A, AA,AAA.

[nemesis8679]

4 hours ago, zam said:

Vengeance isn't really a legit organization it's just a team name.  They don't have the ability to submit USA Hockey rosters on their own so they paid renegades to roster their teams.  Rumour is renegades are rebranding as vengeance for all their teams A, AA,AAA.

My understanding is it will be a for-profit rebranding. Whether they're keeping all or some of the Renegades board members and coaches, I have no idea. I'd assume everything would be the same, with different jerseys and costing more money. I can't see the primary buyer of ice at the rink be forced to dissolve into nonexistence.

I've also heard just competing travel teams will be ousted, it won't affect the PIHL or college teams.  

[Wildcat]

Aviators will probably just be more of the same at Shadyside.  Not much ice time plus limited opportunities for growth.  The school teams there use most of what's available.

[PittsburghHockeyFan]

It looks like the Aviators just made the announcement about moving to Shady Side Academy. It looks like they are getting more ice and they are starting an ADM program that will be run by Eric Tangradi.......

Pittsburgh Aviators Board Unanimously Approves New Ice Agreement

With the start of the new calendar year, the Pittsburgh Aviators Youth Hockey Organization has started planning for the 2024-2025 hockey season. The first order of business for our board was to secure a new ice contract, as our current contract will expire on March 31, 2024. The board worked to ensure that our young athletes will continue to grow and develop.

For the past several months, the Aviators board have been in discussions with the hockey operations and facilities staff at the Roy McKnight Hockey Center, located on the Shady Side Academy campus in Fox Chapel, with the goal of establishing a potential partnership. These meetings focused on how a partnership could be mutually beneficial. The Roy McKnight Hockey Center staff and Shady Side Academy administrators came to a decision; the Pittsburgh Aviators were to be welcomed at their ice arena!

On Thursday, January 11th 2024, the Pittsburgh Aviators Executive Board voted unanimously to approve a three year ice agreement and partnership with Shady Side Academy. The Roy McKnight Hockey Center will be the new home of the Pittsburgh Aviators Hockey Association for the 2024-2025, 2025-2026, and 2026-2027 seasons.

We are also beyond thrilled to announce that with this partnership, the Aviators will be working with Eric Tangradi, Shady Side Academy Boys Prep Head Coach. He is a former NHL player and will be heading the new U8 Junior Bulldogs ADM program. The Aviators will be assisting Eric as he launches this program. It is our shared hope that this mite program will not only create a place for new U8 players to grow and develop, but will also field a competitive U8 hockey team. The Junior Bulldog players will be rostered under the Aviators program, allowing them to play in USA Ice Hockey sanctioned tournaments, leagues, and jamborees.

In addition to the ADM program, Eric will also be assisting with tryout clinics and skill sessions for our Aviators teams at all levels. We are so pleased to have a former NHL player to provide assistance with our player development.

On behalf of the Pittsburgh Aviators, we would like to thank the Aviators board members, Roy McKnight Hockey Center staff, and Shady Side Academy administrators for their hard work and dedication to create a partnership that benefits all parties and for providing a home for the Aviator Organization for the next three years.

Please refer to our website and social media platforms in the coming weeks as tryout clinics and registration are finalized. If you would like to be notified when tryout information becomes available, please complete the form below.

Tryout Notifications: https://bit.ly/AvsTryouts

Edited January 31 by PittsburghHockeyFan

[YardSale]

1 hour ago, PittsburghHockeyFan said:

It looks like the Aviators just made the announcement about moving to Shady Side Academy. It looks like they are getting more ice and they are starting an ADM program that will be run by Eric Tangradi.......

I missed the part where it says more ice.

[aaaahockey]

Just what we need more AAA mites 

[PittsburghHockeyFan]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

Just what we need more AAA mites 

Where did you read something about AAA mites? 

Edited January 30 by PittsburghHockeyFan

[Oighir]

The state of youth hockey in Western PA is sloppy and bloated. Business decisions like these are evidence of the state of things in Western PA. Eventually, the bubble will pop, and the various organizations will have to reform, fold, or move. Without understanding the underlying details, it appears as though the consolidation was due to the crowded organizations leading to infighting, poaching, and a decrease in the focus on the development of children. 

We're long past the point where youth hockey is about the youth. It's a business first and an outlet for kids to make friends and develop second. The only population group that can hope to combat it are parents but they are too naive and/or living vicariously through their children to push back on these types of changes. 

[James Gatz]

There are plenty of parents I've spoken too who are not taken in by AAA mystique and want to find places for their kids to play an honest PAHL schedule.  It is not their naivety or vicarious living preventing them from pushing back as much as it is lack of options.  I don't know what they are supposed to do to push back other than to vote with their wallets, but there seem to be fewer options in the market for these parents than a few years ago.  

[James Gatz]

In keeping with thread title, is it true that in addition to not renewing the Aviators, Alpha has informed the Vipers that they will not get ice next year too?  Not sure where that leaves the Vipers.  The Vengence/Renegades will be the only option at Alpha next year.  

[Oighir]

 

42 minutes ago, James Gatz said:

There are plenty of parents I've spoken too who are not taken in by AAA mystique and want to find places for their kids to play an honest PAHL schedule.  It is not their naivety or vicarious living preventing them from pushing back as much as it is lack of options.  I don't know what they are supposed to do to push back other than to vote with their wallets, but there seem to be fewer options in the market for these parents than a few years ago.  

Yes, there will certainly be a segment of parents who do not buy into the AAA "mystique," and I certainly do not want to paint a picture that somehow fanatical parents are the root cause of the current state of affairs. Nor do I want to suggest that only "AAA" parents act this way because we all know that isn't true. If you haven't seen some dad berating their child for a missed play or lack of scoring then you haven't been around the game long enough. They are certainly part of the demand for the product, but organizational leadership, directors, and coaches are the main drivers behind any hockey program. That's simply the nature of any youth sports organization. You drive traffic to increase engagement and numbers. It's a valid need, and ethical and non-ethical ways exist to produce the numbers required to field teams. If you are referring to the lack of AAA options for PAHL, that's never really been the point of AAA in our area and shouldn't be. If parents are just looking for a PAHL team that isn't AAA, then there are still options out there with no drive typically exceeding 30 minutes from a given location. Just depends on what your child wants and how you can best accommodate those desires in the short window of opportunity they get to play. 

Concerning PAHL, it is suffering from an identity crisis and lacks the leadership to effectively combat the evolving business tactics of organizations. Business savvy will almost always outmaneuver traditional values. 

Parents are bound because the wallet is the number one pushback methodology. The only other tools available are frequent and educated attendance of board meetings for the organizations. Individual advocacy to relevant stakeholders may help, but who really has the time these days? 

[Oighir]

20 minutes ago, James Gatz said:

In keeping with thread title, is it true that in addition to not renewing the Aviators, Alpha has informed the Vipers that they will not get ice next year too?  Not sure where that leaves the Vipers.  The Vengence/Renegades will be the only option at Alpha next year.  

I would think that means the Vipers are defunct. Unless they can procure ice at the Hunt Armory (if they can?) or another rink, let them come in. 

[forbin]

Vengeance and Renegades will merge. All other youth orgs are out at Alpha. Vengeance AAA teams will use the red helmets, AA-B teams will use black. Uniforms will be slightly different. 

That is what I have heard from a very reliable source within the Vengeance organization. 

[Oighir]

3 minutes ago, forbin said:

Vengeance and Renegades will merge. All other youth orgs are out at Alpha. Vengeance AAA teams will use the red helmets, AA-B teams will use black. Uniforms will be slightly different. 

That is what I have heard from a very reliable source within the Vengeance organization. 

I've heard similar from some sources too. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.  Hopefully it does for the kids sakes

[nemesis8679]

What exactly would be the benefit of buying up a non-profit youth hockey organization? Doesn't seem all that profitable, considering you still have to buy ice from a rink owned by somebody else. 

[YardSale]

4 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

What exactly would be the benefit of buying up a non-profit youth hockey organization? Doesn't seem all that profitable, considering you still have to buy ice from a rink owned by somebody else. 

I've heard it isn't a purchase, just a rebrand of the non-profit.  2 entities will remain, Tier 1 and Tier 2.

[Pucks11]

17 minutes ago, YardSale said:

I've heard it isn't a purchase, just a rebrand of the non-profit.  2 entities will remain, Tier 1 and Tier 2.

The "good doctor" that owns the Vengeance will probably use the Renegades non-profit as some sort of write-off to cover his losses with the Vengeance since he can only claim so much as "donations".

[thunderbay bombers]

Viperstars are folding into the vengeance as well. So the NHAHA organization will cease to exist.Guessing that esmark will use the huskies usa hockey number. Believe Aviators were offered to combine with vengeance as well but said no thanks and moved to shadyside academy. 

[nemesis8679]

54 minutes ago, thunderbay bombers said:

Viperstars are folding into the vengeance as well. So the NHAHA organization will cease to exist.Guessing that esmark will use the huskies usa hockey number. Believe Aviators were offered to combine with vengeance as well but said no thanks and moved to shadyside academy. 

May be some upset birthyear/ NB players. Unless they're going to have 2 teams at 16u and 18u. 

[Rewster]

5 hours ago, Oighir said:

 

Yes, there will certainly be a segment of parents who do not buy into the AAA "mystique," and I certainly do not want to paint a picture that somehow fanatical parents are the root cause of the current state of affairs. Nor do I want to suggest that only "AAA" parents act this way because we all know that isn't true. If you haven't seen some dad berating their child for a missed play or lack of scoring then you haven't been around the game long enough. They are certainly part of the demand for the product, but organizational leadership, directors, and coaches are the main drivers behind any hockey program. That's simply the nature of any youth sports organization. You drive traffic to increase engagement and numbers. It's a valid need, and ethical and non-ethical ways exist to produce the numbers required to field teams. If you are referring to the lack of AAA options for PAHL, that's never really been the point of AAA in our area and shouldn't be. If parents are just looking for a PAHL team that isn't AAA, then there are still options out there with no drive typically exceeding 30 minutes from a given location. Just depends on what your child wants and how you can best accommodate those desires in the short window of opportunity they get to play. 

Concerning PAHL, it is suffering from an identity crisis and lacks the leadership to effectively combat the evolving business tactics of organizations. Business savvy will almost always outmaneuver traditional values. 

Parents are bound because the wallet is the number one pushback methodology. The only other tools available are frequent and educated attendance of board meetings for the organizations. Individual advocacy to relevant stakeholders may help, but who really has the time these days? 

The PAHL could close the gap and seriously compete with the best Tier 2 18U AA leagues…if they evolve just a little and promote their league as a AA developmental league. Instead, the PAHL have apparently built an iron curtain around accessing any information about the member teams and players. You can find the team names and maybe the players names. But that’s where it ends. They keep any and all statistical information zipped up tight. It’s reminiscent of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. IMO, it’s myopic and has it’s whole foundation based on fear-laden principles. I fear that if it doesn’t adapt and keep up with the times…the outside influencers promising greener pastures might entice some people.

[Deke715]

9 hours ago, Rewster said:

The PAHL could close the gap and seriously compete with the best Tier 2 18U AA leagues…if they evolve just a little and promote their league as a AA developmental league. Instead, the PAHL have apparently built an iron curtain around accessing any information about the member teams and players. You can find the team names and maybe the players names. But that’s where it ends. They keep any and all statistical information zipped up tight. It’s reminiscent of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. IMO, it’s myopic and has it’s whole foundation based on fear-laden principles. I fear that if it doesn’t adapt and keep up with the times…the outside influencers promising greener pastures might entice some people.

Not that I ever like to defend PAHL but, they did "try" to incorporate individual stats online this season.  Parents ruined that!  People from organizations inputting the scores began adding points and assists that did not reflect the same on the official scoresheet.  I did the scoresheet for a 12u game and an Erie coach was yelling at me to add assists to the the scoresheet.  It's a singe "A" game.  I just ignored the clown!  Just this January PAHL pulled live scoring away from team managers/parents. 

There are a lot of parents out there chasing the AAA "pill".  They just can't accept that good hockey can take place below that level.  It's sad!  I think there is a very strong tier 2 AA program in the Pittsburgh. Some are just not playing in PAHL anymore.  13u has some very good competition and they don't fear playing each other!