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I follow your argument, but I disagree entirely. It's been my experience that closed tryouts are far better for both the organization and the players. I do not agree with the implication that most organizations are holding closed tryouts to hide the actual potential playing level of the resulting teams from parents. From an org's perspective, you don't have parents yelling at their kids during tryouts, or accosting evaluators during or after tryouts about their kids. From a player's perspective, observing closed tryouts both as a parent and as a coach/evaluator for years has convinced me that most kids play better at tryouts when their parents aren't watching and preparing their withering car coaching speech the whole time. Most parents have no idea how to evaluate their player relative to their peers. That's just a sad fact. There are many things about how organizations run tryouts that I have issues with, but I am absolutely convinced that the benefits of closed tryouts far outweigh any costs.

Honestly, the AA team you just described may compete perfectly fine in PAHL. Just not beyond that. It's that diluted. But I hear you. Maybe they won't place in AA. I don't know about that with closed try outs. Maybe you have a point. But kids seem to relax and play better without parents watching. I have never watched my kid try out, so I don't quite relate to this need. Do you really think a parent who has never played hockey before really needs to be in there to then crap all over the try out process? Parents are truly just awful these days. It's not everyone, but enough made that bed with behavior and are working to have it so that they can't watch games either. I don't have much sympathy on that. These are volunteers you are abusing. Working g on no refs too.

PAHL would solve a lot if issues if they had AA Major and AA Minor divisions at 12U, 14U (already exists), and 16U. Prevents the scenario mentioned here and also prevents peewee minor teams from going independent, which is when that nonsense starts to happen. PAHL needs to understand that the birth year model is here to stay whether they like it or not. Adapt or become irrelevant.

On @Sauceypoint - don't want to quote because it is too long. Someone made a good point a couple weeks ago that rotating third liners isn't going to make or break any team (substitute d-pairing If you want or fourth line if you have a huge team). I really feel like that's where teams can build loyalty. Obviously you get a first line/pair stud you need to put him on the team and probably cut a third line/pair and you have a substantial upgrade. You don't need to replace a third liner who has been on your team for 2+ years for another third liner. Most likely won't do anything for you. Goalies I just feel bad for because they are going to be replaced when someone better or perceived to be better comes along no matter what. Going further, the lower the level of play, the lower the stakes should be. If my kid is playing lower a major or a minor hockey why not surround yourself with friends and have a good time. Forget replacing anyone.

I think parents and all these AAA options have created this try out monster, quite frankly, and it is not quite fair to blame organizations. What do you really want them to do? If the goal is to put together a National bound team and it was advertised as such, then that has to be the goal, to win. But....you do need to cast a side eye at someone who has...tried out every year and never accepted a spot on your one team. Or not played AA for years. F those kids, I don't care how good they are, they never stay and you then annoy your long time family who frequently walks away. Stuff like that. It's hard to know what people's intentions are. No one can read minds. But those ones are easy red flags. Maybe make a call first to those players, ask if they are going accept the spot before you announce the team. It's a lot of work. You hear conflicting complaints on this thread.....that loyalty is not rewarded. That spots should not be offered to AAA kids. Then you hear complaints that teams are hand picked and try outs aren't fair. Well, if you are rewarding loyalty rather than picking the best that came to try out, then yes, they are hand picked. And the team that goes to Nationals should be good, otherwise they are going to get their butts handed to them in Nationals. It is very possible around here that Mid Am teams won't be able to hang at Nationals with how bad AA is becoming. Look at Nationals results from 14u last year. And....you would be hard pressed to find any organization in Pittsburgh that doesn't already have an idea of who they want. You are usually trying out for a few spots if you are an unknown to an organization, so you better be good and stand out, because bubble players are interchangeable with many other players, usually, and quite frankly, those spots should be offered to the family that has stayed with the organization. When close, tie goes to the loyal. It just should, because again, you risk that unknown player walking AND you lose the long time player. It causes lots of damage. In an ideal world, you only go to try outs where you want to play for that team. But....if the try out for the team you really want is far away, I know people use tryouts to keep their kid on the ice. If you don't, then they don't look as good as the kids who were doing this. It is sometimes really hard to find ways to keep on the once the season ends, particularly as your kid gets older. And not everyone can afford to pay for privates. I think the organizations really struggle to field appropriate AA teams and it is a multi faceted problem. For the first time ever, my family chose not to play on the lowly A team when not offered a spot on the top team at an organization. It used to be that your kid could develop on those teams and I would say you should take that spot and not be offended. But everything is so diluted, that this thought is no longer the case. The drop is sometimes huge between the top teams and the next team down. So no....not paying thousands of dollars for that. Hockey isn't just for fun. It also has to be for development. Winning comes after development, but it has to be there and appropriate for your player. Otherwise just save your dollars for when they can play beer league. PAHL is headed to no AA, quite frankly. The independent teams are going to start winning Mid Ams.

I figured it's about time to start this thread. I know there are a few teams looking for players. This might be a good place to start! Organizations can list what they are looking for and who to contact for information.

@Spear and Magic Helmet I don't think letting more teams into AA is a great answer. Then you aren't addressing the issue the independent teams complain of with the competition. And it's miserable to play blow out games for the kids, no matter which side of the score sheet you are on. That's terrible if you care about development. I don't think that is accurate, that the top A team could always be AA. Sometimes a placement was wrong, but more often than not, that team still gets killed by the better AA teams. Remember, AA is diluted. So you are right, that top team may compete with some of the AA teams, but then...where do you draw the line?

My son was at the SPR tryouts and the organization defiantly did not select the best kids for the SPR 18U AA team. Hands down. This is why the other kids declined and moved on. It was not the declines that doomed the team but the talent that was selected.

That sucks, especially since you had the headcount at tryouts to field one or even two teams. Question - since your tryouts were open to spectators, do you think there was any chance mom or dad got in their kids ear to dissuade them from accepting their spot on the AA team because the parents felt it was not a good fit for their kid or that the grass may be greener elsewhere and the talent was not up to "their" standards? My gut says "yes" but what do I know.

We had open tryouts. From the bleachers, we had 1/3 open for parents to watch then you could watch from Bubbas at Printscape. From our perspective, the number of declines brought this team down. It was a pretty awesome lineup from a very competitive tryout. We had 11 declines and exhausted the alternate list. It was just a cascade of events and panic from families that didn't want to be left on a shell of a team. Our process was coach calling the roster and getting verbal approvals then posting the roster list (pinnie numbers) then they have 48 hours to decline to receive back their commitment fee. The 48 hr timeframe now seems too long + I like what North Pittsburgh is doing by cashing the commitments on making the roster. Some joker sent their decline email one minute after the deadline. We decided to just let it go. Sad lol.

After watching this tryout season debacle from so many angles and age groups, I have what I think may be a HUGE reason behind the craziness: A few years ago only a couple organizations -- mainly AAA -- had CLOSED TRYOUTS. Now everyone closes tryouts, and I think THAT is a large part of the problem (at least at the A-level). I get the reasoning behind it: "We don't want to deal with the parents saying 'my Bobby was better than that other kid who was selected!', so let's keep the parents out." BUT think of it from the other perspective: If parents can't see in that rink, they are blindly following either the word of an organization that will say anything to keep their kids, or their kid themself (and we know how objective THEY are). The parents don't know how many players actually tried out, they don't know the skill level of the kids who tried out, and they are always second-guessing themselves. And yes, A-level parents, too. So no one knows if they are safe, and keep moving on. Everything is fluid, and parents are glad to eat a commitment fee to ensure their player is on a solid team. My guess is that there are still a lot of orphans out there, so I agree with the poster who said it may make sense to start a thread for orphan players looking for homes. I still get contacted (just got two more today) from panicked parents asking me if I knew where their kid could play. In my opinion, closed tryouts are freaking stupid to the Nth degree. If you are who you say you are, what do you have to hide?

Yes that's the reason. The top kids at the first year bantam can play against each other without the kids who have checked for a year. It's like a slow intro to checking with just other kids who haven't checked. Probably more dangerous just like waiting til puberty to introduce checking is.

Should we have a thread with players looking for teams? I think the Badgers and North Pittsburgh are finishing up their tryouts this week. I wonder how many teams still need a few players to round out their teams and how many players haven't found a team yet.

Instead of folding a team, what's wrong with just still having it, and placing them in PAHL in the division they belong in?

This is so aggravating as a parent whose child tried out at SP (and several other orgs), had a shortened tryout, 18u general cancelled, they then hold a supplemental (while not contacting those who already paid), and then fold. Tryout money down the drain. Heck, maybe next year, we just wait for supplementals since tryouts at numerous places went this route. How is this process helpful to the players who do the tryout grind, have played at that level but are an unknown, and then orgs hold supplemental trying to find good enough players!?! It’s insane. Player development seems to be the last idea in tryouts. It starts to come across as all about winning and hand picking teams. With all the jockeying, there needs to be some introspection and creative changes to tryouts. It is not serving the players. At this point, they should just hold a city wide tryout per age division and skill level. Get creative bc the current system is awful. I’m glad my player finally landed somewhere bc April was insane. The 18u funnel is super hard on kids trying to find a team.

A lot of programs cutting talented kids that were loyal to their program or returning kids that have been there for a time for some AAA players looking to shack up for a year until next season’s AAA opportunity comes along. Is it really worth it? Also heard some of the tryouts at various places were nothing but a formality as the teams were picked ahead of time. Erich’s, morals, loyalty and honesty take a back seat to the prospects of winning a national championship. just remember how the Rangers tried to load up and win a cup. See how that works. Not sure how that will go but it will be some interesting matchups in the league this year.

Adding another A division under a “AA Minor” moniker is not the solution as all you are doing is pacifying the adults and coaches for ego purposes. Hell, its what everyone on this forum complains about all of the time with adding the extra A for those seeking placement on “faux AAA” teams when they should be at the AA level. If your kid is not good enough to make a AA team regardless of age, so be it. Play A-Major Black or a comparable level based on their ability and ranking at tryouts. Not allowing commitment fees to be returned if players are placed on the top team is a step in the right direction and will prevent mom and dad from sending their kid to five different tryouts while only paying for tryout fees. NP does this. AA Major and AA Minor? Why stop there - let’s go full throttle with AA Minor Mediocre and AA Minor Adequate.

I expect this to be a very popular thread this year

At South Pittsburgh Rebellion, we currently have the following needs in order of priority. 18U 2005/2006 AA Thomas - we are looking for some more skaters to fill out our team. We have a supplemental tryout today on Sunday, 30th at 2:15pm - 3:50pm. Email VPCoaching@southpittsburghhockey.org to be considered and more information. 16U Daddea - we are looking for another goalie, we have one. This team will play A Major. 10U Squirts - 1 or 2 skaters at every level below BY to fill out teams.

I really don't think the talent pool has grown. In the 90s and early 00s not a lot of options for kids because WPA wasn't scouted. And yes more kids are playing DI and DIII than 10 -15 years ago but still we lack NHL draft picks. And I attribute the Cooleys" successes to Uncle and Dad more than WPA hockey.