Saucey

How has Vengeance helped the situation pointed out by the Mid Am link? If a parent really wants to progress their kid to high levels, the old advice seems to still remain true...get out of Pittsburgh. And Vengeance doesn't develop imo, they recruit from other programs' ADM programs and PPE leftovers.Who then leave when they get to midget to go to PPE or Esmark if they can. So critical of PPE's mites program when Vengeance doesn't even HAVE one. PPE is becoming a stopping point for out of town kids to move on in a year, it seems. It still serves a purpose, just not the one promised to local families. They seem to be making money and not inclined to change a thing. I agree it's not healthy for kids, what they are doing. Get off the hamster wheel. Find the coach your kid likes who wants to develop all the kids, with a team of good families. Privates over the summer with other sports. Get good grades. Stop giving these clowns your money, unless everything that I said you happen to find at Vengeance that year, then go ahead if you can afford it. The rah rah rah Vengeance as a viable option to PPE is just....not. ?

You know, as I read the unrelenting cheerleading posts for the Vengeance program and then occasionally from the people who crow about the success of that one SHAHA team.....here is the bottom line. No one program is 'the best'. The stuff about the Vengeance made me want to throw up a little in my mouth. Like any of these programs that spring up around here, they have sporadic success that doesn't seem to stick as the kids grow older. For every good team that they put together, there is a massive clunker. And they are more than happy to put a team together with kids who aren't AA and still slap that AAA label on. And...every single program does it. PPE as well has done it. So what is a parent to do? It is really hard, particularly if you do not know hockey. My family never bought into any of this crap. But with Blackbear moving in and everyone leaving PAHL to chase the rainbows, I have no idea what we would have done in this landscape. We could always manage to find a situation that worked for our kids. So my advice...just try to find a good coach, good families, where your kid is having fun and getting better. That is going to differ for your kid. Then find a good match for privates. Make sure they are getting better. Emphasize school. Have them get good grades. You don't buy the Powerball thinking you are going to win. Your kid has the same chance at playing in the NHL or NCAA div I as they do at winning the Powerball. So look for a match with your child over 'the best' program, whatever that means, regardless of what label whatever program is sticking on it. After all, the 'best' program may have just been the one that did the sales pitch and recruiting the best that year.

Ok , I stand corrected, a handful of people still REALLY care about PPE. ?

Does anyone really care about the PPE anymore? Maybe after try outs.

Disagree. Depending on the tournament, your player may actually be seen by a collage club coach. No one watches AA or lower level AAA. I wouldn't include Meadville in that category, however.

I had a coach telle the difference is in time commitment. So like at RMU the lower in the leagues you go, less practices and games, and yeah, not much difference for skill.

A monopolies means there are no more choices.You know, all that program jumping treasured around here.

Mid Am has never been known as a hockey hot bed.

Some Junior Colleges even have hockey programs. Absolutely, I would have my child explore what they want to do in addition to the hockey through either classes or a part time job or both.

I have zero issues with this, so long as you know. It is becoming pretty common to take a "gap"year or two before going to school. If you don't know what you want to study, have the money and maybe you need to see what life is like, go play more hockey, why not.

Once adults figured out that there was money to be made it was all over. It's every sport, happening for decades. https://changingthegameproject.com/the-professionalization-of-youth-sports/ Parents want their kid to play on the same teams as the other kids their kid started with. Their kids want that. So they jump onto the hamster wheel of lessons and summer hockey and AAA. It is hard not to give in to the peer pressure. Parents also think this is all leading to college scholarships, too. Most don't really think their kid is NHL material.Many have no idea that NCAA D1 is the only place this happens. I have a pretty good hockey player. People assume my kid is going to get a scholarship to play hockey and when I explain that we are likely going to continue to pay lots of money for him to play because like 90 percent of the hockey kids playing, he is not D1 material, and they are so shocked... because their kid is not playing at my kids level, so if my kid isn't getting anything, then guess who else isn't? People really do have some vague idea that this will lead to money for school. Grades. Grades and high SAT scores may get you money for school. (School is test optional? Well, that SAT score, if good, may help get merit money.)

Also, most refs are independent contractors. By definition of that status, they are not responsible to anyone. Evaluations....holding them accountable.....as soon as you begin to exert control over that relationship, that is when you get employees. No one wants employees. Benefits, payroll deductions, paying their insurance coverage. Plus, you want them to make calls independent of an organization to keep them neutral. But you could add components to how they get certified. A review of complaints filed, etc.

To be clear, I have no regrets. You keep implying that I am a butt hurt parent with a washed up kid. Why would that be the only source of criticsim of what is essentially a terrible system? Since your perspective comes from having made it, I wonder....there is nothing in that experience that could not have been improved upon? Why does juniors have to be so brutal? To sell tickets, I hear. How much is even made on ticket sales? I did not think those teams made profits, for the most part. if hockey is such a late development sport...why not make it so that juniors doesn't exist until age 18? Hersey, I know. I am talking about studies done regarding the increased professionalism of youth sports, not just hockey, to train children as if they are mini adults. The push to specialize younger and younger. Not good for young bodies. Child psychologists. Doctors. Those sorts of professionals. It would be nice if talent could be developed without the huge asks, the gauntlet. Your boy ran the gauntlet, so you seem to see no issues. But you could probably suggest some improvement. Of the things you and your boy went through...what could you have done without? I operate from the standpoint that it should be easier for more to play. To decrease cost. To make hockey more accessible. If you limit your talent pool only to those who have money and can run the gauntlet, who have access to the gauntlet, which is another conversation entirely, then you necessarily miss some athletes. That's not a good system when you talk about national teams, Olympics, etc. You aren't getting the best athletes. You are getting the best athletes in a limited pool.

Already in the works. I heard BB has been contacting PAHL organizations looking for teams to join their league.

I am not unhappy! Neither are my children. Again, why does one have to be a CONSTANT cheerleader to make you happy? Someone asked me for my opinion and I gave it. So tired of being told to shut up. Counter my opinion. Don't criticize me for giving it.

Glad it worked out for your son and I commend him and your family. But he is rare. I stand by what I said. I am not the only one, studies done by professionals indicated this is not a great way to grow up. That was years ago, there was legislation posed to prevent this kind of thing. So sorry you are tired of hearing that but yes, this is my opinion. I am sure if people wanted to, they could come up with a way to develop hockey players that isn't so freaking burdensome on kids and families. You play football, you can lead a normal life and go to the NHL or college. I think there is a great deal of criticism that can be leveled against the sport's path and a great deal of room for improvement.

Soooooo refreshing to have people just talking hockey, respecting each other and the kids playing. Great discussion.

I really have no idea but I know of a few. It wasn't something my family wanted. I believe children should be children before trying to make hockey as a career, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why people who have children with the talent to do it will take the chance. You don't get a second chance to go to prom, cut up with buddies in class, hang out at a football game...for parents to trust a billet to raise their kid..I kind of think the whole system to create NHL and Division I hockey players blows, quite frankly. It's not a healthy environment for kids and families. Add in how confusing the process is and the inordinate amount of people willing to take advantage of families, and it's not a good scene.

Some people pull their kids to play juniors and cyber school them. If it's one of the leagues where you know they advance to the NHl, 'k I get it, but these others....

I started following PIHl's FB account this year. Having the games broadcast and PIHL advertising them all is great. Don't get that kind of attention from travel teams.

I said SV has a nice squad, not denigrating them at all. I agree about PT. Since they do have an excellent coach, can't count them out. Not denigrating anyone, actually. I haven't seen PR play recently but looks like they are improving for sure per recent scores. That's an impressive W against PT. PT also struggles with goaltending, so if teams are figuring out how to get shots on net and contain the studs, there you go. But you can't argue that PT's coach is excellent, so I would not count them out based only on recent losses. I think that team moves the puck really well. This is an odd year, with all the talent that graduated last year and low birth years, any given team could figure things out. I think anything could still happen. Season is fun from that standpoint. Subsequent seasons, hopefully we see even better hockey from lots of teams, since there should be experience returning. People look down on PIHL, but I really enjoy it. Maybe because I know so many of the players on many of the teams at this point, so it's just fun for me.

From what I understand, PT's SHAHA studs weren't there in that game against SV, thus explaining the lop sided score. No denying SV has a nice squad this year. NA is struggling to put the pieces together, taking a stupid number of penalities, which is unusual for that program. Not to take anything away from SV, but the fact that a squad so heavy with freshman is doing so well shows....just how depleted in talent PIHL is. This is what hockey looks like with two low number birth years playing at the same time. (2005 and 2007). Thank goodness for 2006. Still half a season to go.

There has been a very vocal contingent on this forum actively trying to shut Danner up. I could go for what happy hockey fan says. I could also go for less digs and personal attacks on people. Where is that getting us in society? I don't care how you spend your money, either, so long as that money is being spent eyes wide open. If you've got 15,000 to spend on your kid's gap year to let him just play hockey, and understand that it isn't going to land them in the pros, or you don't care too much about their high school education, have at it. But I do think it is wrong for a league to combine all their tiers and market their III tier to families as a viable option to get to the NHL. It's just wrong. Preying on children's dreams and a parent's desire to give their kid the best. Yuck yuck yuck.

I appreciate what Danner posts. People do get caught in these leagues thinking it is going to lead to something. A lot of those junior tes are incredibly shady. It's good someone explains it! Some people really appreciate the help! We should all be so lucky to have hockeyisgreat to be the constant cheerleader on this board!

Spring and summer leagues and ball hockey have allowed my boys to choose who they way to play with. They get the opportunity to play with kids/friends at a different level. Pure fun. Don't buy anyone's hype that they are elite or going to develop your kid a lot. We've done a number of camps over the years. Make sure they go with a friend. The biggest bang for your buck are quality individual or small group private.lessons. Pick a camp that offers something specific he wants to work on. They need a break, mental and physical. Do a different sport. At this age, let him start weight training and dry land. Cardio like biking if interval training will help with skating stamina. My boys were generally only on the ice maybe once a week over the summer unless they were doing a league, then twice. A camp here and there. Mine are pretty good. The foot was off the gas over the summer for sure.