Montour Hockey

[PeterThePuck]

Heard there is a PIHL hearing tonight Montour played with illegal Goalie.

Avonworth and QV going after them

What you hearing

[Hoxkeydad]

1 minute ago, PeterThePuck said:

Heard there is a PIHL hearing tonight Montour played with illegal Goalie.

Avonworth and QV going after them

What you hearing

Define illegal goalie.  Kid physically lives in the school district and physically attends the high school.  He tried out for Esmark in April and made the team.  His billet family placement didn’t happen until late July when the family volunteered to open house their home for him to play hockey out of state.   Seen other saying Esmark places him at Montour schools.  That’s prob about the funniest thing I’ve read on this so far.  A AAA  organization placing a kid in a school district to play PIHL hockey….that’s a good one.   Obviously don’t know what the heck they’re talking about on that one.  Montour school district is where his billet family lives.   Not sure what else would be needed.  He must have been pretty damn good.   Sounds like adults doing what they do best.  If you asked the kids they’d probably all say he’s fine he lives here let him play.  But……..

[Ihearthockey]

I'm confused on what the issue is.  Is it the timing of him transferring?  Or is it the "intent" of the transfer.  I know athletic intent requires you to sit out for a year before you can play for the school.  Or was this an issue of the paperwork needing to be in by X date and it not making it by that date? 

Here's the billeted section of Athletic Intent ineligibility

The student is a billeted player, unless a court-appointed guardianship is in place between the player and the hostfamily. This does not pertain to foreign students who have been approved by USA Hockey.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Ihearthockey

[Danner27]

57 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Heard there is a PIHL hearing tonight Montour played with illegal Goalie.

Avonworth and QV going after them

What you hearing

Check the esmark thread. We’ve been talking about it for a few days. 

[Danner27]

49 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

Define illegal goalie.  Kid physically lives in the school district and physically attends the high school.  He tried out for Esmark in April and made the team.  His billet family placement didn’t happen until late July when the family volunteered to open house their home for him to play hockey out of state.   Seen other saying Esmark places him at Montour schools.  That’s prob about the funniest thing I’ve read on this so far.  A AAA  organization placing a kid in a school district to play PIHL hockey….that’s a good one.   Obviously don’t know what the heck they’re talking about on that one.  Montour school district is where his billet family lives.   Not sure what else would be needed.  He must have been pretty damn good.   Sounds like adults doing what they do best.  If you asked the kids they’d probably all say he’s fine he lives here let him play.  But……..

But here’s the problem - did montour submit the paper work properly ? Did they submit it at all ? Did the board make a mistake ? Why is this just now discovered ? These are questions only pihl & montour people would know.
 

you can try to kid yourself - us with no skin in the game see this for what it really is - montour needed a GOOD goalie. They didn’t want to suffer the ebb n flows of other programs that lose a senior goalie and suck for a few years. Montour did lose thier 3 year starting main goalie after last season ?I was just told montour was also moved down to A this season from AA. Montour’s leading scorer plays for esmark - texting with some coaches from pihl AA today - it was well known montour was going to struggle due to not having any good goalies. August rolls around, the montour esmark forward’s family decides to billet the esmark goalie. It’s very obvious why. 
 

Looking through the pihl rules it states in some cases a transfer has to sit out a year. The only real question - were all the pihl rules, guidelines followed. If not, they should be punished. Sure it sucks, as usual adults messing it up for kids but it’s also not fair to those teams that might have a bad goalie but still go out and play with what they have. If the Avonworth example is true, they managed it with one goalie. Montours roster currently shows THREE varsity goalies.

[PeterThePuck]

Will find out tonight Avonworth wants in bad.

[PeterThePuck]

Heard Goalie didn’t go to Montour lived in the district as a billet.

I could be wrong is it true?

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, Ihearthockey said:

The student is a billeted player, unless a court-appointed guardianship is in place between the player and the hostfamily. This does not pertain to foreign students who have been approved by USA Hockey.

Thanks! This explains a lot. In years past, the esmark kids that played pihl were always here on a visa. It sounds like this kid jumped a state or two - that would exclude him from the normal set of rules. If I’m understanding the rules correctly - the goalies parents would have had to sign over his guardianship. No parent is doing that.

PIHL put in a rule if you have visa players you have to play up a division - they are making mcort finally follow it this year. Montour moves down a division and grabs an out of state esmark goalie in the final hour. Does anyone remember what moon pulled some years back ? Getting moved to the open division, saying all their players quit because they didn’t have a goalie, lost some seniors and were going to get killed In AA after winning the pens cup. pihl moved them all the way down to the open division. all the sudden moon had  all their players back and ripped through it. This made pihl look really bad. Moon ended the season with ZERO co op players. This montour situation reminds me a lot of what moon pulled

what is it with these west hills teams ? 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Danner27

[Ihearthockey]

11 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Will find out tonight Avonworth wants in bad.

Can't really blame them.  The goalie in question is statistically significantly better.  

The rule seems pretty black and white.  If you billet and your parents didn't sign over guardianship, you have to sit out a year.  

You have to ask yourself if this kid was in the district prior to this year and part of the Montour placement process, would Montour still have dropped to single A?

Edited February 21, 2023 by Ihearthockey

[Hoxkeydad]

35 minutes ago, PeterThePuck said:

Heard Goalie didn’t go to Montour lived in the district as a billet.

I could be wrong is it true?

Not true he attended Montour HS  from start of the year.  

[Ihearthockey]

1 minute ago, Hoxkeydad said:

Not true he attended Montour HS  from start of the year.  

I think you can be a billet and attend the school.  I believe billet means temporary housing and unless his parents signed over guardianship making the housing permanent, he's technically considered a billet. I could be wrong though.  

[zam]

The problem with allowing "billet players" in general is the opportunity for corruption.  Even if this particular case was completely clean of any motives other than giving a kid a place to stay it just looks bad and opens the opportunity for these things to happen in the future.  

The fact he ends up in a school district with a shared teammate on a team that just happens to need a goalie just looks bad. Especially when it's probably an hour away from the rink he's here to play and train at?? Yes Of course it could be a coincidence.

But you could envision a wealthy booster somewhere offering up a free place to stay for kids to come here and play as long as they agree to play for the local school team as well. At that point you might as well allow a kid from Central Valley to go "billet" at his friends house or Grandma's house in Cranberry.

Somewhat unrelated question, and I never gave it consideration until this came up. Does a school district cover the cost of educating someone that is here temporarily, isn't a resident, and the parents are a resident of a completely different state? 

[Hoxkeydad]

11 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

I think you can be a billet and attend the school.  I believe billet means temporary housing and unless his parents signed over guardianship making the housing permanent, he's technically considered a billet. I could be wrong though.  

He lives with a billet family that lives in the district AND attends Montour HS.  

[Danner27]

6 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

He lives with a billet family that lives in the district AND attends Montour HS.  

Ok, we get it you are a montour parent. Plenty of people have ask valid questions, some of us just trying to figure it out with nothing in this game. We are trying to understand it. You just keep repeating the same stuff over & over. Has your hockey board been transparent with you ? Was their an actual reason given for this current problem ? 

[Hoxkeydad]

1 minute ago, Danner27 said:

Ok, we get it you are a montour parent. Plenty of people have ask valid questions, some of us just trying to figure it out with nothing in this game. We are trying to understand it. You just keep repeating the same stuff over & over. Has your hockey board been transparent with you ? Was their an actual reason given for this current problem ? 

Just trying to help with all the inaccurate statements.  Some of the insinuations on here are kind of mind boggling.  Recruiting for PIHL hockey…AAA organizations placing kids in districts….billeting to recruit kids.  I could go on and on.   It’s amazing.  BTW I’m not a Montour parent and do not live in district.  

I don't know any of the mechanics but do know he lives in the district and attended school at montour, rosters were approved, he was approved by previous commissioner to play, and was NOT recruited placed or billeted for Montour hockey.  He just was excited to play a little HS hockey when he had time (10 games total but coach would have loved to play him all 20 if he was available) and happened to be pretty good so let’s screw that up.  BTW there are a LOT of AAA kids playing A hockey in PIHL so it’s not like he was some ringer.  
I’ll let all of you play this out in your minds now and won’t bother your board any further.  

[Danner27]

46 minutes ago, Hoxkeydad said:

Just trying to help with all the inaccurate statements.  Some of the insinuations on here are kind of mind boggling.  Recruiting for PIHL hockey…AAA organizations placing kids in districts….billeting to recruit kids.  I could go on and on.   It’s amazing.  BTW I’m not a Montour parent and do not live in district.  

I don't know any of the mechanics but do know he lives in the district and attended school at montour, rosters were approved, he was approved by previous commissioner to play, and was NOT recruited placed or billeted for Montour hockey.  He just was excited to play a little HS hockey when he had time (10 games total but coach would have loved to play him all 20 if he was available) and happened to be pretty good so let’s screw that up.  BTW there are a LOT of AAA kids playing A hockey in PIHL so it’s not like he was some ringer.  
I’ll let all of you play this out in your minds now and won’t bother your board any further.  

so you know all this about the rosters, the kid etc but you are not associated with montour hockey in anyway ? ?
 

Sure there are plenty of local kids playing AAA travel hockey that play A. Also AA,AAA & B. This is a different situation. 
 

I can already see montour’s defense by your response - the commissioner died. Everything was done with him. Morbid. 
 

kids are not being recruited for PIHL hockey per say - it’s teams taking  advantage of getting them in their district. Look at canevin years ago, the place yuri started placing kids. Look at the rule pihl put in just for esmark’s visa players. Look at bishop mcort playing up in AA this year.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Danner27

[Hoxkeydad]

15 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

so you know all this about the rosters, the kid etc but you are not associated with montour hockey in anyway ? ?
 

Sure there are plenty of local kids playing AAA travel hockey that play A. Also AA,AAA & B. This is a different situation. 
 

I can already see montour’s defense by your response - the commissioner died. Everything was done with him. Morbid. 
 

I don’t think anyone is playing off someone’s death. Especially someone respected in the community but you draw your own conclusions.   You seem to have a done a great job walking this whole problem and coming to your own conclusions and stoking the fire as well.  You must be part of the team going after Montour.  ? Sad affair. 

 

15 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

kids are not being recruited for PIHL hockey per say - it’s teams taking  advantage of getting them in their district. Look at canevin years ago, the place yuri started placing kids. Look at the rule pihl put in just for esmark’s visa players. Look at bishop mcort playing up in AA this year.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Hoxkeydad

[Hoxkeydad]

14 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

so you know all this about the rosters, the kid etc but you are not associated with montour hockey in anyway ? ?

 I never indicated I knew anything about the rosters so not sure how you came to that conclusion.  

 

Sure there are plenty of local kids playing AAA travel hockey that play A. Also AA,AAA & B. This is a different situation. 
 

I can already see montour’s defense by your response - the commissioner died. Everything was done with him. Morbid. 
 

kids are not being recruited for PIHL hockey per say - it’s teams taking  advantage of getting them in their district. Look at canevin years ago, the place yuri started placing kids. Look at the rule pihl put in just for esmark’s visa players. Look at bishop mcort playing up in AA this year.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Hoxkeydad

[Danner27]

Sorry, happily -  I haven’t had to deal with PIHL for years. It’s just very obvious why montour ended up with this goalie. I didn’t know much about this situation until a week ago seeing some posts in a different thread so I started asking around. I didn’t start this topic if you didn’t notice. 
 

You’ll know you’re fate in a few hours I suppose. The outcome will be interesting. If your guys broke the rules or tried to pull a fast one, I hope you are disqualified from the playoffs. If everything is legit, I hope it’s all tossed out & your kids get to play. 
 

Edit - you deleted your response. I should have quoted it. I’m going to go out on a limb here but I don’t think it will bust - you are a montour hockey board member, team manager or the coach.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Danner27

[PeterThePuck]

If this was PIAA wouldn’t be allowed 

Don’t know the rules but kid coming in and billet for Hockey play your club not allowed to play High School.

In state of Minnesota where high school hockey is king they are strict about zip codes with jumping in and out to play.

 

 

[Denis Lemiuex]

QV shouldn't throw stones.

 

[hockey57410]

Live in district. My son doesn’t play hockey, but it was buzz of his hockey friends today. They said the team manager specifically took the kid as billet so he could play. Coach asked someone to get a goalie bc montour president kid was goalie but was horrible. Seems like they were desperate to get someone since post Clay the board made shambles of program. No way this was a coincidence. Guess kid is leaving to go home as soon as aaa season is over too. Didn’t really want to play varsity but kind of had to with billet family being team manager 

[Ihearthockey]

2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

If your guys broke the rules or tried to pull a fast one, I hope you are disqualified from the playoffs. If everything is legit, I hope it’s all tossed out & your kids get to play. 

This.  

 

The kid went 9-1.  Montour should probably not be playing A hockey with that kid.  If they did it legally, good for them, they are one of the favorites in A.  If not, they should garner no sympathy and do it correctly next year. 

 

[Ihearthockey]

3 minutes ago, hockey57410 said:

Guess kid is leaving to go home as soon as aaa season is over too. 

I've heard the same.  

[Icebucket]

4 minutes ago, hockey57410 said:

Live in district. My son doesn’t play hockey, but it was buzz of his hockey friends today. They said the team manager specifically took the kid as billet so he could play. Coach asked someone to get a goalie bc montour president kid was goalie but was horrible. Seems like they were desperate to get someone since post Clay the board made shambles of program. No way this was a coincidence. Guess kid is leaving to go home as soon as aaa season is over too. Didn’t really want to play varsity but kind of had to with billet family being team manager 

I was thinking about this earlier but decided not to comment about it. Clay was such a stand up guy and got pushed out. Then they replace him with a coach who's biggest knock is that he is a win at all cost guy. Could be completely unrelated, but just seems like an odd coincidence.