What will happen to the good 2009 AA PAHL teams?

[aaaahockey]

2 hours ago, Icebucket said:

Maybe I just don't buy the "all the best tier 2 first year midgets play 15U". Even just using this year as an example, Armstrong and NP had about 15 08s on their 16AA teams. You think those players weren't capable of making a tier 2 15U team?

Agree here by the first year midget things are much more even than in previous years. It's not perfect but 08s and 07s could be very competitive in most situations this year. 

[Hattrick Swayze]

5 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

Black Bear owns the rink so they are forced to play either 15U AA AHF or 15U AAA THF. They will fit much better in the Tier 1 league.

If they weren't attached to Black Bear, they could play 16U AA PAHL next year but would likely be the best team even though they are a year younger than most teams.

 

Black Bear does not own their rink. They are not being forced into competing in their leagues but decided to do so on their own. Icemen deciding to go AAA next year instead of trying to compete at Tier 2 to make nationals again is not smart on their part. 

[hockey07]

4 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Where did they all go?

The majority went to predators last year. 

5 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

Well there will be six Tier 1 09 teams next season. Compared with four this season. Esmark is really going to have to work some magic to put together a good team. We'll see. Tier 1 will be a bit watered down I think. PPE may start to bring in non-locals and that always shakes things up. And a few of the top top kids will look at prep schools.

For Tier II, the better 09 AA players are going to gravitate towards the teams that are putting together a 15U team. Any 09 team that stays together will probably play A Major if they play in PAHL. Playing against older but less skilled kids than they are used to. I would guess that Allegheny and South Pitt will have 15U teams to match AHF 15U AA division. They don't have much choice but to play in that league.  And I'm guessing those two teams will not be playing PAHL and then just schedule a lot of independent games. Those two teams will probably pick up a lot of PAHL AA kids from other organizations that are putting together 16U mixed teams. Kids from Foxes 09 and North Pitt 09 will probably seek out other 09 teams since they won't have a birth year team option anymore. I think SCIR is the only 09 team that will try and compete in 16U AA PAHL. Preds will no longer have an 09 AA team so those kids will look around to find an 09 team. I'm not sure about Lebo, but if they keep their 09 team there is no way they can play AA next year.

 

rumor has it all the esmark kids that came to allegheny are going back to esmark and that 09 team that won pahl is going to end up having to be 08/09 mixed since their 08 team was not competitive at all in u16 and lost most of their good players 

[aaaahockey]

30 minutes ago, hockey07 said:

The majority went to predators last year. 

rumor has it all the esmark kids that came to allegheny are going back to esmark and that 09 team that won pahl is going to end up having to be 08/09 mixed since their 08 team was not competitive at all in u16 and lost most of their good players 

I believe the pred kids who left are talking about returning as well.  It's silly season have to see how it plays out. 

[Nepotisim_anyone]

10 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I believe the pred kids who left are talking about returning as well.  It's silly season have to see how it plays out. 

You can’t make this stuff up. 

[Tendymom]

15 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Where did they all go?

Most went to the Preds....some to the Vengeance 

[Corsi]

This stuff happens every year around this time.  

[YardSale]

33 minutes ago, Corsi said:

This stuff happens every year around this time.  

Is it getting crazier though?

[stickboy]

And per usual, the second tier AAA players crawl back to Esmark at midget with tender and draft dreams. 

[zam]

What is likely to happen with the 09s is pretty predictable. 1 or 2 Strong pens kids will leave for opportunities elsewhere, 2 or 3 weak players will be cut.  They will pick up a couple out of towners, and maybe 1 or 2 local 09s will make the team 

The Preds, Vengeance, Shaha and Icemen will each swap a couple players amongst themselves. These are players seeking greener pastures or players cut and looking for another option.  Esmark will grab some Russians, a couple cut pens, and a dozen local players and end up the 2nd or 3rd best team locally.  

And before you get all excited about the Iceman,  what did they do this season?  Beat a few 50, 60,70 ranked teams.  Now if they can prove they can do that consistently through the course of next season what does that make them.... Pretty much A 50-70th ranked team. 

But as JoePa used to say, "if you aren't getting better you're getting worse." And historically the best kids are going to leave Icemen, and they're unlikely to attract any relevant players to the frozen pond. And all the other teams are consolidating talent and getting better, so icemen are more likely to decline next season. Not taking anything away from this past season, but I doubt they can take a step forward.

Let's reconnect after tryouts and see if this is what happened.

[Limitless]

A lot of you don't understand the landscape and just spread rumors. Have any of you dads that have zero hockey experience even watch anything but your own child?

Pens - Top two lines are solidified.  Good luck to any new kids breaking their top two lines.  Better have good attitude and happy you are wearing Pens gear if on 3rd and 4th line.

Preds - We all know the dad that loves to be on the bench that ruined Esmark.  Otherwise they could be a very good AAA team, but south hills area doesn't seem to figure it out. 

Vengeance - That team has not improved in the last 2 years and only holds its ranking bc of teams they play and being a "AAA" team.  Import a coach from Detroit that doesn't attend practices really shows how invested the organization/coach is with these kids.   So keep spending $10,000 to fill pockets.  Also, how many other shady things can happen over there before it's exposed.

SHAHA - Tough to compete with Preds in same area.  Would be a good team if they combined top two lines. But much cheaper option than Preds.

Icemen - The rink sucks and the location isn't good to attract players.  This is the only team out of the 3 listed above that has consistently rose in the ranks the last two years and proving to all the haters.  Pens have been a top 5 team for the last 3 years.  We all know they are the top dog and is #1 destination.

Esmark - Team folded last year bc of a certain parent taking players to Preds.  We see it every year, whoever has the money and filling these organizations pockets the most, thats all they care about, they have the control or balls of these organization heads.  This team next year will be nothing but a A major team next year if they even get enough to field.   

 

If you ask me, a lot of kids stay put and all of this is nonsense. Get on with your lives and enjoy the limited time you have with your kids.  Spend your money wisely.  And if you have extra cash to toss around.  I will gladly accept your money and tell you how good your kid is and how he is going to the NHL.  Seems to be the way things are anymore.

[Carl Racki]

3 hours ago, Limitless said:

A lot of you don't understand the landscape and just spread rumors. Have any of you dads that have zero hockey experience even watch anything but your own child?

Pens - Top two lines are solidified.  Good luck to any new kids breaking their top two lines.  Better have good attitude and happy you are wearing Pens gear if on 3rd and 4th line.

Preds - We all know the dad that loves to be on the bench that ruined Esmark.  Otherwise they could be a very good AAA team, but south hills area doesn't seem to figure it out. 

Vengeance - That team has not improved in the last 2 years and only holds its ranking bc of teams they play and being a "AAA" team.  Import a coach from Detroit that doesn't attend practices really shows how invested the organization/coach is with these kids.   So keep spending $10,000 to fill pockets.  Also, how many other shady things can happen over there before it's exposed.

SHAHA - Tough to compete with Preds in same area.  Would be a good team if they combined top two lines. But much cheaper option than Preds.

Icemen - The rink sucks and the location isn't good to attract players.  This is the only team out of the 3 listed above that has consistently rose in the ranks the last two years and proving to all the haters.  Pens have been a top 5 team for the last 3 years.  We all know they are the top dog and is #1 destination.

Esmark - Team folded last year bc of a certain parent taking players to Preds.  We see it every year, whoever has the money and filling these organizations pockets the most, thats all they care about, they have the control or balls of these organization heads.  This team next year will be nothing but a A major team next year if they even get enough to field.   

 

If you ask me, a lot of kids stay put and all of this is nonsense. Get on with your lives and enjoy the limited time you have with your kids.  Spend your money wisely.  And if you have extra cash to toss around.  I will gladly accept your money and tell you how good your kid is and how he is going to the NHL.  Seems to be the way things are anymore.

It's funny, you are mostly spot on in my opinion.  I also thought it was a shame the Preds and SHAHA wouldn't combine and make a legit top team IF WELL COACHED.  I can't believe guys would drive across town again to pay a ton of money to play for the 2009 Esmark team.  I thought the reason everyone left was they finally figured out that the 2009 Esmark team was no better than SHAHA , PREDS,.....  and why the hell are we driving/paying all this money?  My guess is it will just be a long drive and a lor of money for a similar team.  Makes no sense. 

[Hockey00]

1 hour ago, Carl Racki said:

It's funny, you are mostly spot on in my opinion.  I also thought it was a shame the Preds and SHAHA wouldn't combine and make a legit top team IF WELL COACHED.  I can't believe guys would drive across town again to pay a ton of money to play for the 2009 Esmark team.  I thought the reason everyone left was they finally figured out that the 2009 Esmark team was no better than SHAHA , PREDS,.....  and why the hell are we driving/paying all this money?  My guess is it will just be a long drive and a lor of money for a similar team.  Makes no sense. 

And doesn’t Esmark do 2-3 tournaments that require air travel? minnesota/texas?

[Stanley PK]

At least 3 sometimes 4 or more depending on age group

[aaaahockey]

5 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

It's funny, you are mostly spot on in my opinion.  I also thought it was a shame the Preds and SHAHA wouldn't combine and make a legit top team IF WELL COACHED.  I can't believe guys would drive across town again to pay a ton of money to play for the 2009 Esmark team.  I thought the reason everyone left was they finally figured out that the 2009 Esmark team was no better than SHAHA , PREDS,.....  and why the hell are we driving/paying all this money?  My guess is it will just be a long drive and a lor of money for a similar team.  Makes no sense. 

I guess that begs the question who is a good coach for them?  

[HockeyFan6687]

Allegheny just posted its coaches.  No 08 or 09 just a 16uAA National Bound team. 
Surprised to see the 2010 listed being that there was mass exodus from there Last year. 

[Rewster]

14 hours ago, stickboy said:

And per usual, the second tier AAA players crawl back to Esmark at midget with tender and draft dreams. 

I believe that “crawl” that you are describing is also known as protecting one’s own self interest. Sometimes, it’s actually not the ones “standing proud” that win.
As the Gambler once said…you’ve got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em, know when to walk away, and know when to run.
I’ve witnessed the “proud standing” ones that find themselves on a train bound to nowhere.

[Nepotisim_anyone]

11 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I guess that begs the question who is a good coach for them?  

Wait. I know I know…. That same dad from Esmark 🤣

[RJUSHL]

10 hours ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

Allegheny just posted its coaches.  No 08 or 09 just a 16uAA National Bound team. 
Surprised to see the 2010 listed being that there was mass exodus from there Last year. 

This is surprising. One of the biggest Black Bear organizations won't have a team to play in their AHF 15U AA division?

What percentage mix would you guess for the 08s and 09s that make that 16U AA team? 70% 2008's and 30% 2009's? Or even 80/20 split?

The majority of 2009's that were on the Badgers 14U AA team this year will not stay if they don't make the 16U AA team. They just won't. Probably 10+ 2009 AA level kids will leave. That's my guess.

This decision by Allegheny is going to re-stock Esmark. I'm sure they're already hitting the phones. I guess Black Bear doesn't care either way? They lose a 2009 AHF team and gain a 2009 THF team. $$$

Edited March 16 by RJUSHL

[aaaahockey]

48 minutes ago, Nepotisim_anyone said:

Wait. I know I know…. That same dad from Esmark 🤣

From what I gather you have hit on the problem though in all seriousness for getting all the kids on one team.   Preds and Esmark are seen as money grabs. Preds you get a lot of dad coach involvement and not just from one person there are at least two or three way too involved dads.  Esmark is an insane drive for South Hills families because they practice at New Kensington.  Shaha coach seems insane (and a dad).  For a long time Shaha really seemed to have a good thing going until their oldest two birth years fell apart.  I'm honestly glad my kid isn't an 09 because it seems like a mess.  I don't really know much about Vengeance but that's a drive too and I'm not sure an upgrade over any of those teams (looks like Preds finished above them and shaha close).  

[aaaahockey]

11 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

What percentage mix would you guess for the 08s and 09s that make that team? 70% 2008's and 30% 2009's? Or even 80/20 split?

The majority of 2009's that were on the Badgers 14U AA team this year will not stay if they don't make the 16U AA team. They just won't. Probably 10+ 2009 AA level kids will leave. That's my guess.

Hard question because it also depends on if any other 08s show up that would knock them out of spots. Maybe this is where the Esmark team gets their 09s

[YardSale]

2 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

From what I gather you have hit on the problem though in all seriousness for getting all the kids on one team.   Preds and Esmark are seen as money grabs. Preds you get a lot of dad coach involvement and not just from one person there are at least two or three way too involved dads.  Esmark is an insane drive for South Hills families because they practice at New Kensington.  Shaha coach seems insane (and a dad).  For a long time Shaha really seemed to have a good thing going until their oldest two birth years fell apart.  I'm honestly glad my kid isn't an 09 because it seems like a mess.  I don't really know much about Vengeance but that's a drive too and I'm not sure an upgrade over any of those teams (looks like Preds finished above them and shaha close).  

‘09s need to be trimming AAA teams, not adding them

[RJUSHL]

8 minutes ago, YardSale said:

‘09s need to be trimming AAA teams, not adding them

Exactly. For a strong BY like 2009 the number should be three. Pittsburgh could have three top 40 teams. The six 09 AAA teams we’ll have next year is absolutely excessive.

There will be more 09 AAA teams than 09 AA teams. Crazy. 

[Saucey]

13 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

 

There will be more 09 AAA teams than 09 AA teams. Crazy. 

This has been developing for a while. In order to play AA, you have to sign up to play AAA. 😞🤢 All it does is increase the cost of hockey and time spent on it. PAHL AA 16u hockey was terrible quality top to bottom this year. I don't know about 14u, didn't watch any games this year, but I remember thinking last year watching two of the mid am games thinking....this is awful. Bleh. Good luck chasing, all.

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, YardSale said:

‘09s need to be trimming AAA teams, not adding them

Agreed. Need to figure out a host org and a coach.  I think pens, one North hills and one south Hills team would be fine. Same with 08s.