Covid-19 vs the Flu

[Quinlan2020]

13 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Quinlan2020, Just one Question.   Do you think the 25 person indoor limit is OK or should it be revised upward? I'm just curious but guessing from your stance on this forum I would say you are ok with it and feel that Wolf knows best. 

I don't know if 25 is OK or not. Those decisions aren't something I am qualified to make. I will say that it seems unreasonable to me that the number 25 is used no matter if you are in someone's house or in a 15,000 square foot building. So if they feel that 25 is adequate for a house, it should be higher for an ice arena. Green Phase was a big failure this summer and that's why these restrictions are in place. We can thank the beach goers, bar hoppers & grad parties for this situation. The people failed to use common sense when we had the opportunity. It is very reasonable to ask for more leniency with the restrictions that are applied to ice rinks. I just am not so quick to blame government for where we are at with this. I hope that the people in charge at the state & county level will give this another look now that the situation in our area has improved. I can just understand why they are hesitant considering the bad behavior of the summer. I just don't feel it is in the kids best interest to get angry about all this. It is what it is. I would be hoping for the best but willing to work within the restrictions if necessary. 

[Quinlan2020]

21 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Really? Must be great to be you. My life sucks because of it. Me out of work since April and my wife cut back to 15 hours a week.  My world has been shut down. I stopped posting for the last few months cause I had to cancel my internet and I am at my sisters house now looking for work.  I have to be honest, I have been able to tolerate a lot of people on this site over the years, but the past few months reading what you have posted you are one of the few that makes me sick to my stomach 

I understand your frustration. I am not judging those that have truly suffered during this time. I hope you and your family get back on your feet. This board is about discussing the effects on hockey. It's a very minor issue compared to what you are going through. I am sorry. I have obviously offended some. It was never my intention to minimize any personal suffering.

[forbin]

53 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Really? Must be great to be you. My life sucks because of it. Me out of work since April and my wife cut back to 15 hours a week.  My world has been shut down. I stopped posting for the last few months cause I had to cancel my internet and I am at my sisters house now looking for work.  I have to be honest, I have been able to tolerate a lot of people on this site over the years, but the past few months reading what you have posted you are one of the few that makes me sick to my stomach 

Really sorry to read this. I don’t know you from Adam, but I sincerely hope you and your family are able to bounce back from this, and that your kids (if still playing) are able to get back on the ice this fall. 

[hockeyisgreat]

8 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I don't know if 25 is OK or not. Those decisions aren't something I am qualified to make. I will say that it seems unreasonable to me that the number 25 is used no matter if you are in someone's house or in a 15,000 square foot building. So if they feel that 25 is adequate for a house, it should be higher for an ice arena. Green Phase was a big failure this summer and that's why these restrictions are in place. We can thank the beach goers, bar hoppers & grad parties for this situation. The people failed to use common sense when we had the opportunity. It is very reasonable to ask for more leniency with the restrictions that are applied to ice rinks. I just am not so quick to blame government for where we are at with this. I hope that the people in charge at the state & county level will give this another look now that the situation in our area has improved. I can just understand why they are hesitant considering the bad behavior of the summer. I just don't feel it is in the kids best interest to get angry about all this. It is what it is. I would be hoping for the best but willing to work within the restrictions if necessary. 

So you say that you think 25 for all situations is unreasonable but you are willing to live with it. That's the difference between you and most others on here.  Seems like they are willing to at least try to get this adjusted. If you were looking at the stats as this all spiked in July and August it was mainly young people who were partying as they do. They have to learn and sometimes the hard way. But within that the hospitalizations didn't rise proportionally and reach critical phases as they did in March. PA hospitals have never been stretched to the limit. Fact is we need to learn to live with the virus. Even with a vaccine it's not going away. I think we need to quit publicizing the numbers. Will they publicize the numbers of Flu cases this fall?  What about the numbers of people who die of heart disease per day. When will the media stop sensationalizing this?

[Quinlan2020]

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So you say that you think 25 for all situations is unreasonable but you are willing to live with it. That's the difference between you and most others on here.  Seems like they are willing to at least try to get this adjusted. If you were looking at the stats as this all spiked in July and August it was mainly young people who were partying as they do. They have to learn and sometimes the hard way. But within that the hospitalizations didn't rise proportionally and reach critical phases as they did in March. PA hospitals have never been stretched to the limit. Fact is we need to learn to live with the virus. Even with a vaccine it's not going away. I think we need to quit publicizing the numbers. Will they publicize the numbers of Flu cases this fall?  What about the numbers of people who die of heart disease per day. When will the media stop sensationalizing this?

I understand what you are saying. I don't agree that it is being sensationalized. It's a global pandemic. The US isn't the only country considering this a major crisis/catastrophe. I would hope that we would not wait until hospitals are stretched to react. There are a lot of folks that feel as you do, but telling the other people to move on and not worry just won't work. We can't change each others mind on this. Do you not think that things would get even worse if we just went back to 2019 style of living. Cases would rise dramatically. many more people would die and the economy would struggle even more. I guess you don't see it that way. We have to try and meet in the middle somewhere to get through this.

[hockeyisgreat]

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I understand what you are saying. I don't agree that it is being sensationalized. It's a global pandemic. The US isn't the only country considering this a major crisis/catastrophe. I would hope that we would not wait until hospitals are stretched to react. There are a lot of folks that feel as you do, but telling the other people to move on and not worry just won't work. We can't change each others mind on this. Do you not think that things would get even worse if we just went back to 2019 style of living. Cases would rise dramatically. many more people would die and the economy would struggle even more. I guess you don't see it that way. We have to try and meet in the middle somewhere to get through this.

I agree we need to meet in the middle. I know we can never go back to 2019 way of life. But we can't continue at this level either. Isn't meeting in the middle what we are doing now?  Some limits need to be tweaked based on the fact that most people are adhering to the mask and social distance requirements.  I'm not saying all or nothing I'm saying reasonable measures and quit sensationalizing the pandemic for personal and political advantages.  While a lot of people are suffering economically a lot are also getting rich from all this.

[Lifelongbender]

Here's a modest proposal: Since nobody really knows what would or would not have happened if we didn't implement the measures that have been implemented, and given that even if absolute proof of one outcome or another were available it wouldn't change the mind of anyone actively debating this here, why don't we stop calling each other names and wasting valuable time and effort and drop the argument? Because nothing we say here is going to change what the government does, nor will anything change minds on either side.

You should all understand that the truth of the situation is probably somewhere in the middle of the two positions taken here most often.

This is totally unproductive and I thought that with the departure of the King it was possible that we might stop calling each other offensive names so often. Maybe we can try to move forward. Maybe even actually talk about hockey!

Edited August 28, 2020 by Lifelongbender
removed quote for clarity

[Lifelongbender]

3 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I agree we need to meet in the middle. I know we can never go back to 2019 way of life. But we can't continue at this level either. Isn't meeting in the middle what we are doing now?  Some limits need to be tweaked based on the fact that most people are adhering to the mask and social distance requirements.  I'm not saying all or nothing I'm saying reasonable measures and quit sensationalizing the pandemic for personal and political advantages.  While a lot of people are suffering economically a lot are also getting rich from all this.

You posted this while I was typing, or I wouldn't have wasted my time posting, because this message is well worded and reasonable.

[dropthepuck]

I wish this thread would end. Blah, blah, blah. Lets drop the puck already and play some hockey!!!

[Quinlan2020]

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I agree we need to meet in the middle. I know we can never go back to 2019 way of life. But we can't continue at this level either. Isn't meeting in the middle what we are doing now?  Some limits need to be tweaked based on the fact that most people are adhering to the mask and social distance requirements.  I'm not saying all or nothing I'm saying reasonable measures and quit sensationalizing the pandemic for personal and political advantages.  While a lot of people are suffering economically a lot are also getting rich from all this.

What would be a good compromise? Some states have more strict restrictions. Some have less. The only things closed now are bars. Is there something other than the 25 person limit that you feel needs to change? 

[HockeyDad23]

1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said:

What would be a good compromise? Some states have more strict restrictions. Some have less. The only things closed now are bars. Is there something other than the 25 person limit that you feel needs to change? 

Not many that have stricter requirements then PA.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818/

 

[Quinlan2020]

10 minutes ago, HockeyDad23 said:

Not many that have stricter requirements then PA.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818/

 

I guess I am not aware of the restrictions other than closed bars, limited restaurant capacity, 250 limit for outdoor gatherings, 25 for indoor gatherings & certain businesses are limited to 50% capacity.  Am I missing something. Could someone please enlighten me on what I am missing?

[hockeyisgreat]

I'm ready to drop the Puck!!!!!!!!!

[HockeyDad23]

22 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I guess I am not aware of the restrictions other than closed bars, limited restaurant capacity, 250 limit for outdoor gatherings, 25 for indoor gatherings & certain businesses are limited to 50% capacity.  Am I missing something. Could someone please enlighten me on what I am missing?

I think PA is most restrictive because of the steadfast and stringent requirements. For example, some states say no more than 25 indoors if you can't social distance.  That is a lot looser than 25 indoors period.  Some other requirements are outlined in greater detail in other states making clear direction or more wiggle room on their guidelines. PA guidelines are hard lines on caps. No wiggle room no additional guidance. 

 

This article is pretty good at showing what each state does. I find it fascinating actually. Some have really gotten creative and thought some of our everyday life activities through. We seem to offer a 1 size fits all for everything we do in PA.

 

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html

[Quinlan2020]

1 minute ago, HockeyDad23 said:

I think PA is most restrictive because of the steadfast and stringent requirements. For example, some states say no more than 25 indoors if you can't social distance.  That is a lot looser than 25 indoors period.  Some other requirements are outlined in greater detail in other states making clear direction or more wiggle room on their guidelines. PA guidelines are hard lines on caps. No wiggle room no additional guidance. 

 

This article is pretty good at showing what each state does. I find it fascinating actually. Some have really gotten creative and thought some of our everyday life activities through. We seem to offer a 1 size fits all for everything we do in PA.

 

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html

OK. There is nothing here that I didn't mention. Personally...What would you like to do now that you are not allowed to?

Please fill in the blank:

I can't even ___________ anymore because of Covid-19 restrictions.

[HockeyDad23]

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

OK. There is nothing here that I didn't mention. Personally...What would you like to do now that you are not allowed to?

Please fill in the blank:

I can't even ___________ anymore because of Covid-19 restrictions.

Live life daily without a mask. Have the kids go back to school full time not on a pc. Go to a night club or comedy club with friends. Have the entire family watch HS football or any sport for that matter. Go to a Penguins game, pirates game, tailgate at a Steeler game. Play regular hockey. Shake hands vs a wave. I could keep going on and on.  

Allegheny county just released more info that the recovery rate is 96%.  Most and I mean most deaths are 60+ with the majority being 70+ and in long term care facilities.  Society continues to mask up and modify life for a select few. We knew from day one and know now the disease spreads fast and can hurt the vulnerable. With all this data and precautions we still can not protect seniors in long term care facilities. These are facts in all states. So the remedy is everyone mask up and modify life.

[sadday4hockey]

4 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said:

I understand what you are saying.

NO!!!! You do not. You just keep beating the same dead horse. How do you possibly have this much time to post on here all day every day? I would think that as the Governor of this state, you would have to work some time.

[Quinlan2020]

8 minutes ago, HockeyDad23 said:

Live life daily without a mask. Have the kids go back to school full time not on a pc. Go to a night club or comedy club with friends. Have the entire family watch HS football or any sport for that matter. Go to a Penguins game, pirates game, tailgate at a Steeler game. Play regular hockey. Shake hands vs a wave. I could keep going on and on.  

Allegheny county just released more info that the recovery rate is 96%.  Most and I mean most deaths are 60+ with the majority being 70+ and in long term care facilities.  Society continues to mask up and modify life for a select few. We knew from day one and know now the disease spreads fast and can hurt the vulnerable. With all this data and precautions we still can not protect seniors in long term care facilities. These are facts in all states. So the remedy is everyone mask up and modify life.

That's the best you can do? You think there is a mandate against shaking hands?

And all the professional sports teams are on board with the no fans policy. Do you really think that is just a Pennsylvania thing? School?

State government is allowing schools to make their own decision and some are going full five days.

So there are no night clubs & comedy clubs open in PA? Excuse me. That is quite a hardship then. Can you maybe take a little drive to a neighboring state for such an essential activity?

[HockeyDad23]

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

That's the best you can do? You think there is a mandate against shaking hands?

And all the professional sports teams are on board with the no fans policy. Do you really think that is just a Pennsylvania thing? School?

State government is allowing schools to make their own decision and some are going full five days.

So there are no night clubs & comedy clubs open in PA? Excuse me. That is quite a hardship then. Can you maybe take a little drive to a neighboring state for such an essential activity?

I can now see clearly why no one likes you.  You have all the answers don't ya? Why can't you listen instead of marginalizing what somebody feels or says? You asked me for what we cannot do that we did before. I told you. No reason to belittle and consider my remarks minor.  And you didn't ask for hardship. You asked, 

Please fill in the blank:

I can't even ___________ anymore because of Covid-19 restrictions.

Therefor I responded. The advice of medical professionals is to not shake hands and to social distance.  That is great sports teams are on board with no fans. Again, you asked what was different under covid.

State government is allowing schools to make a decision. Not all are going full time in person.

And lastly I'll keep in mind to take a quick trek over to Ohio next time for my essential activity.

You must be so blessed and fortunate that life hasn't changed. That is so awesome and amazing for you. However, what has transpired since March has been different for everyone. You should practice a little humility and listen to others pain regardless of how trivial it might be to you.

[Lifelongbender]

14 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said:

That's the best you can do? You think there is a mandate against shaking hands?

And all the professional sports teams are on board with the no fans policy. Do you really think that is just a Pennsylvania thing? School?

State government is allowing schools to make their own decision and some are going full five days.

So there are no night clubs & comedy clubs open in PA? Excuse me. That is quite a hardship then. Can you maybe take a little drive to a neighboring state for such an essential activity?

Well, I do have to admit I miss a nice beer with friends every once in a while. But I have to say that he could have written "I can't even serve food and drinks to customers to make my livelihood" there if he owned said night club or comedy club, couldn't he? We are surely being awfully cavalier about the hardships of many small business owners. It's well and good to say that every death counts, no matter their age, but the loss of every small business is also catastrophic for somebody. There may not be a moral equivalent there in your eyes, but that matters, too.

[Quinlan2020]

8 minutes ago, HockeyDad23 said:

I can now see clearly why no one likes you.  You have all the answers don't ya? Why can't you listen instead of marginalizing what somebody feels or says? You asked me for what we cannot do that we did before. I told you. No reason to belittle and consider my remarks minor.  And you didn't ask for hardship. You asked, 

Please fill in the blank:

I can't even ___________ anymore because of Covid-19 restrictions.

Therefor I responded. The advice of medical professionals is to not shake hands and to social distance.  That is great sports teams are on board with no fans. Again, you asked what was different under covid.

State government is allowing schools to make a decision. Not all are going full time in person.

And lastly I'll keep in mind to take a quick trek over to Ohio next time for my essential activity.

You must be so blessed and fortunate that life hasn't changed. That is so awesome and amazing for you. However, what has transpired since March has been different for everyone. You should practice a little humility and listen to others pain regardless of how trivial it might be to you.

But none of the things that you have listed have been banned by state mandates/restrictions. It's Wolf this and Wolf that. What is the state preventing you from doing? Keep in mind that PIAA has mandated no spectators.

[HockeyDad23]

1 minute ago, Quinlan2020 said:

But none of the things that you have listed have been banned by state mandates/restrictions. It's Wolf this and Wolf that. What is the state preventing you from doing? Keep in mind that PIAA has mandated no spectators.

My thread says nothing about Wolf. Nothing banned by the state. I simply mean bans/mandates regardless of who issues them. But if you are bringing up state / Wolf mandates, he is issuing the 25 person capacity for indoors. But you knew that.

 

[Quinlan2020]

3 minutes ago, HockeyDad23 said:

My thread says nothing about Wolf. Nothing banned by the state. I simply mean bans/mandates regardless of who issues them. But if you are bringing up state / Wolf mandates, he is issuing the 25 person capacity for indoors. But you knew that.

 

OK. Fair enough. There seem to be quite a few that bring up his name a lot. And I am certainly not opposed to having that 25 person limit revised.

[hockeyisgreat]

Quinlan2020 have you figured out that you are very much in the minority here. It seems that your opinions are not shared by anyone.  You seem to enjoy arguing with everyone. Not sure what's up with that but I guess someone has to be like that or this forum would be very boring.

[BeaverFalls]

This is a hockey board. People are upset that they can’t play regular hockey games, while many of us have seen or actively participated in other events, of near similar “risk” each way go on without problems. 
 

So when people voice these complaints, the justification shifts to, what can’t you do in your life crybaby etc. 

 

Let’s start with hockey, where some of us spend a great deal of our time whether it be in an official or unofficial capacity, as a hobby, as a player, as a spectator, as an opportunity to teach and grow the game, etc:

1. Numerous summer camps cancelled

2.  Current practices limited numerical participation. 

3. Vast uncertainty whether there will even be a season at any level. 

4.  The stress of trying to prepare for that as an organization, coach, player, parent etc.

5.  Being offered a weak solution to comply with mandates. 

6.  Cancellation of numerous tournaments that were solid family time. 

7.  Incongruity between what’s allowed and not allowed eg Walmart with 100s of people inside vs an ice arena based on arbitrary numbers. 
 

8.  The potential serious impacts financially of arenas, organizations and instructors. 

9.  The lack of all involved to be able to participate in what they enjoy at whatever level they play at. 
 

10.  Another lost season for players getting close to the end of their playing days. 
 

11.  The lack of foresight, double-standards, and cavalier attitude by those who established these policies. 
 

Just a few things to mention. Not everything is quantifiable by what can you do and can’t you do in two columns.  Personally I could care less if I ever set foot in a barroom again less interact with the general public. 
 

Just because hockey isn’t an important part of your life, doesn’t mean it isn’t for others.