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You’ve basically acknowledged that this happened, why do I need to corroborate this? This isn’t a hearing. You provided enough info on this board about the teams involved someone could do their research if they wanted, but frankly I don’t think anyone cares remotely that much. It is ridiculous that your justification for this ADULT fan behavior is that a CHILD was engaged with them in that same behavior. BE THE ADULT! If you went up to a 12 year old kid at the mall, in front of a cop, and started heckling him, you think the cop would be cool with it? But it’s OK in an ice rink? This is a thread about “crazy parents in PAHL”. Start one called “12 year old kids that you don’t like” if you want. Maybe I’m in the minority and am the only one who thinks it isn’t OK, no matter what happens, as an adult, to engage with a child-player on the other team. If that’s the case, shame on me for not being “passionate” enough. Again, like I already clarified, this is nothing against the team, kids or coaches. Great team. This is a thread about experiences with parents. When I hear an adult yell at my daughter, while she’s on the ice, that she shouldn’t play hockey because she’s a girl, pardon me for holding a grudge against a fanbase like that. If that would have been the only thing that happened, I wouldn’t have commented. But given the other stuff, it obviously isn’t a one-time, or one-parent, issue.

Good timing- was just checking out the board when I saw this. They do have a nice group of players- a good team for sure. They might be very well building a solid program. My comment had nothing to do with the players, coaches, or organization for that matter. That's why I limited it to a specific team. As to the parents this year, I wasn't going to get into details and hoping a passing comment would be enough of a contribution to this discussion, but since you asked and want support because you might be challenging my statement (and this is all first hand knowledge)- -Yelling and taunting a kid from another team on the ice during a game, as he walked off, and making comments to him while he walked through the lobby -Screaming at their team to "take out #..." when they were losing -Having a parent, during the handshake line, yell "girls shouldn't be playing hockey" to the 2 girls on the opposing team in a game they lost -Parents, on 2 occasions in just 3 games I saw, got kicked out of the stands for going at the refs (verbally) My point of "taking the cake" is that at 11-12 years old, I've never seen parents, during and after a game, taunting and interacting with the opposing team's players like they did.

Look past the name, logo, and marketing. There's plenty of places to play good hockey. Besides, he'll likely get booted in a few years for out-of-towners. Save yourself the trouble.

I might nominate this as the best post on this forum in years.

I guess you can wipe Mt. Lebo and Aviators off your list of least crazy parents ?

10 year olds are not allowed to ref peewee games…..

Does anyone here really believe paying for the PPE PR machine and money game for their 9-10 year old squirt actually thinks "if my 9 year old kid gets into their system he has a great shot to make all of their future teams?" Even after countless comments from those on this forum countering this? Or is it about the dad being able to tell all of his friends that his kid plays for PPE while buying all of the hoodies and car stickers that let everyone know where his kid plays. When checking comes into play everything changes for these kids. It is pathetic and sad as there are so many solid youth ( yes, youth ) programs out there where you can get plenty of ice time and solid coaching at a fraction of the cost.

As a parent of a child on a 10U A Major Black team this season, and personally knowing 80% of the families on the PPE 2013 teams I can say confidently that there were MAYBE 5 kids total in that division that would have even had a sniff at making those teams. My kid was not one of them just to be clear. I think the Preds team was the only 2013 team in A Major Black and they finished second. Their goalie is unbelievable (yes I know they are only 9, but seriously the kid is a brick wall). I wouldn’t sweat it. Those Pens teams are already picked anyway. The tryouts are just money makers. There’s a 2013 player who played PAHL AA this year, is head and shoulders above the majority of the kids on the pens black teams, and he will likely get cut again this year because his parents don’t play the game. Plain and simple. You HAVE to kiss ass to play up there year after year. It’s exhausting.

I have been taking my son to the tryouts every year regardless of the outcome. He too, pushes for PPE every year. It is good for kids to have goals and try to achieve them if they make it or not. So, from a development of a player/person standpoint you are teaching your kid to make goals and work toward them even if you never achieve them, it instills the work ethic to strive for something. This of course, is if it is in fact your kid asking to tryout and it is HIS goal to make the team. From a logical standpoint, I also have no qualms doing it every year because it is roughly 50$ an ice slot against the "best" kids in the area. It gives my kid a measuring stick, is a reasonability priced ice session with and against high skilled players, and if nothing else gives him a leg up for the next tryout he does for whichever team he ends up making it on. Win/win/win/win. for $170? I'll do that every time. Edit: Spelling

I can promise we try. There are some exceptions (insane parents or kids) but are they really the best? Rarely. Some people don't understand if your kid is in the box 50% of the game and costing us FPP you aren't one of the best regardless of your points. At the same time we really try to be open and fair.

I’ve been through the tryout rodeo awhile now as a coach. No need for any rubric that factors in last year. It’s pretty rare to get any pushback about any kid in the top half of a team making it again regardless of their performance. That said, if a lock player is coasting out there after the first skate, you light a fire by dropping a hint that they need to pick it up, and soon. Usually that does the trick. Otherwise, just let the evaluators do their job based on what they are seeing. Your coach did his job with the exit interviews, so kids should know where they stand. As for people asking about tryouts, leave it open to anyone who wants to come. No need to try to advertise how many spots are open. Most people know that there’s a good chunk locked in, or at least they soon will learn. But, multiple times, we had kids who weren’t on the radar show as a top player and push their way on. This meant a tough phone call with a family that was on the bubble albeit further up from the expected cut line before try outs. For new families: in general, if kids are close, tthe coach will usually go with incumbent. Unless there’s an attitude problem or issue with families. New kids need to be noticeably better than the kid they are replacing. To sum up - no need to reinvent the wheel. 1) Give kids honest feedback at end of season. 2) Get multiple evaluators out at tryouts. 3) Head coach takes that info and combines with his own eyes and knowledge of previous year. 4) make room for kids who out perform the bottom players from last year.

Should do half drills, half scrimmage. See who works hard and can follow directions, and see what they can do in game situations. And have a neutral evaluator from outside the organization score them. Not saying the organization's evaluators can't score them, too. But a neutral third party would help. Whether you think so or not, evaluators that know the kids will have bias whether intentional or not. Good to have someone with no horse in the race to say what they're seeing, too.

Thank you Jkersman 01 for turning an honest parent question into an unprovoked swipe at a fellow PAHL organization. We have played both Aviators 12AA teams this season with no issues. I cannot say the same with our Mt Lebo games, one especially dirty player that I would surmise lead PAHL in PIM.

Knowing what I do I highly doubt that Dave Weaver would bend the rules. Sam probably got his games in very early and met the requirements before heading to where he was going for the season. During those years I’m told there was much attention to compliance. If it’s not the Pittsburgh team winning they get their panties in a wad. There is more to Western PA than just Pittsburgh. The mustangs were successful in very different times than we have now. There’s more AAA, AA and Junior opportunities out there than before. A program is doomed if its philosophy is “this is how we have always done it”. The key to longevity is being able to self evaluate yearly and adapt to the market. What can you do differently that makes your program more attractive? The program has a great history and I’m sure nobody wants it to fade so perhaps a good hard look at tearing it apart and assessing top to bottom to see where things can change and improve.

Couldn’t agree with you more. While I want all divisions celebrated & they are. The D2 division is rarely mentioned. They are also left out of the Steller 6 typically. I think ut is because it’s a group of schools playing together but it’s not the kids or parents fault hockey is expensive. I also agree about the D2 final game. There is a kid on the Ringold team that should make the steller 6. If you are really picking the top 6 & what they mean for the teams he is a lock hands down. Let’s see if it happens. Great post.

Never hurts to try! Just as you go in with eyes wide open. Please let us know what your son thinks of the experience. Just make sure he knows that sometimes being the best out there isn't good enough for PPE.

I think defending bad behavior and pointing out that what an anonymous person said on a public forum "might" be skewed to their PoV are two different things. Especially when they are a parent from the other side. I am a parent, and I wasn't at the game that we lost so I can't speak to any claims there. But I was at the game where a player from Mt. Lebo engaged with parents in front of his coach and they did nothing. A 12-year-old kid, yelling obscenities at parents that are spectating the game... I was also at the game were said kid again engaged parents in the stands after a loss and still nothing. Again, not defending the behavior of the parents yelling back at the kid, better to just ignore and laugh like I did. What control does a coach have over his team and players that he lets them engage with spectators? As far as the parents getting thrown out on two occasions, I wasn't at the game that was a loss, so I don't know what happened. The 2nd game, a parent of a kid who repeatedly got punched in the face by 3 players until he was visibly bleeding (see it from the stands) while a 10-year-old ref tried to get three 12-year-olds off him... Ya, you might have to throw me out of that game too if it was my kid getting punched in the face. Again, victim mentality. We did nothing wrong and the parents were savages!!!!

The better kids are going to float to the top one way or another. How they get there varies. There is no way to know whether a kid that plays 66ers and Pens would develop any differently if he did Foxes and TKCLIFFBRADQUESTBERKY lessons twice a week. The best and the worst kids always come and go. The best PAHL kids move on to AAA or AAAish teams. The best AAA kids move on to Juniors. The worst kids quit hockey or just play in house, high school, summer league, etc. You can skate around tires at UPMC just as well as at Ice Castle. The thing that MIGHT be different at a true AAA team is the commitment level and discipline. The kids at AAA teams are working out at the gym at an early age, pushing each other for ice time, not skipping practices, acting professionally and being held accountable (getting cut if you're a jagoff) There are PAHL coaches that run exceptional practices, but all 18 players don't necessarily have the same level of commitment to the sport and their team.

Their major failure was the 16U team, which is their most important team.

Actually thanks for the specifics! Sounds like some of those parents went off the rails. Good to put it out there. I sure hope their organization reads this and talks to those parents. What you described is totally unacceptable behavior. Even if it's just a couple of parents the rest of them should tell those parents it's unacceptable. At the end of the day it's only a game and the kids are supposed to be having fun and learning good sportsmanship.

Oops LOL. I guess I'm still in the hockey ancient times of 2 year birth years at PAHL. I just assumed the best kids still played AA. So I suppose if your player was the strongest on his Minor Birth year team, and was dominant in his division, then he could stand a chance at making a AAA team.

Most of this is true but one caveat - many if not most of the larger orgs are doing birthyear teams and most of the birthyear teams play single A (usually black) their minor year. So you could be the best in a birthyear in an organization playing A Major Black if you are the minor year. Also you always have the outlier teams that say they can't field AA teams and go undefeated in A Major Gold ?

They take the strongest kids that try out each and every year. Yes there could be SOME exceptions and favoritism. They generally keep the best and cut the worst. There will be players that are the best when they are are 9, but by the time they are 12 they are average. And there are other kids that don't become the best until 14. You want your kid to be the one that keeps getting better and then knocks off a Mite Superstar. All it takes to be a Mite Superstar is being slightly faster than everyone else and having a good Celly. Also, and I haven't seen your kid play, and I don't mean to sound harsh. But, the reality is, your child is playing A. So if your organization has a AA team there are probably at least 10 kids in the birth year better than yours there. Multiply that by 10 other PAHL organizations, and there could be 100 PAHL players alone better than yours. I think if you watch a season of AA PAHL and your kid is one of the top 5 players at that level, then he stands a chance of making AAA pens. If he's not then maybe the next stepping stone is one of the many other "AAA" teams.

You do, on average (each year is different) see some decent roster turnover at lower birth years. That's mainly because they field 2 teams per birth year. The gold team doesn't turn over much (maybe 1 or 2 a year), but the black team has a tendency to do that. After 1-2 years on the black team, some of the parents are starting to realize the writing is on the wall and their days are numbered. They, either individually or with a group of a few teammates, are starting to look at other orgs to find a home earlier. Many of these black team parents, lately at least, would prefer getting into Vengeance (starting at 10U) or Esmark (starting at 12U) if their kid can make it. Then, they're back to playing on a "top team" and situated (hopefully) in the organization sooner. I'm not saying there is a mass exodus each year for the black teams, but it definitely happens, to a different degree each year.

The older you get the harder it is to make PPE teams. They invite kids to the tryouts. Unless you are invited you have very little chance to make it. Most AAA teams around here are stocked by kids who once played PPE and were cut for whatever reason. Some of those teams are almost as good as PPE. How many PPE teams made it to Nationals this year? Maybe 1?

In my experience they will replace anyone who isn't related to someone within the organization. Remember it is hard to make an impression large enough to sway them to cut a current player in just a tryout. Also remember the drills they use for tryouts are the drills these kids have done every day in practice for the past year. If you are serious about it and feel your kid really has the skill of the kids that made it, put them in skills and drills at UPMC and have them get to know the coaches. I wouldn't say it is that hard at all to crack the roster from outside except the caveat that the kids who are there practice the tryout stuff constantly.

The reality is that on most teams PPE included 90% of the teams are picked. There are only typically a couple kids that are playing for a 3/4 line positions & that's how it should be. This is why there is A, AA & AA teams.

Tryout and be good enough to be part of the top 20-25?

I understand both sides of what everyone on the forum is saying the coaches should be posted soon so definitely look at that. Coming to a tryout never hurts to see what your options are especially speaking more towards the 10's and 12's. I personally went away to play AAA as a 12 year old and looking back I think I should have stayed home. The level of coaching the programs used to have was not as par as it is going to be this year. I think this program is going to be good stepping stone for players to get to AAA by the time they are national bound, when those teams start to build up. Just my opinions I understand everyone has theres so I don't want to take that away from anyone.

Let's take this one step further and ask this. What do they do for local hockey? And the answer is still nothing. The Foundation gives the PPE over 200K per year and yet the fees are still astronomical and certainly don't correlate to the results of most players. Ask your club team (Amateur or School) to propose a plan for consideration and you'll get the Heisman faster than OJ in a Hertz Commercial. Well then everyone would start asking for their share.......... Right!! Because most of the money into that fund comes from the 50/50 and that is supported roughly what..... 90% by locals? Maybe as low as 80%. But it sure ain't funded by the mommies and daddies of the out of state/country players. Each year the program becomes less and less connected to local players in their most important years and solely dependent upon them from 5-12 to fill the bean jars.

5 of their 7 Tournament Bound teams are going to Nationals.