BB vs MHR

[dazedandconfused]

Good point.

For some reason, I was under the impression that a team like that would be moved into the AA group to increase parity.

But does this system only compare these 13 teams to each other? If so, what's the point?

[stickboy]

Now things are heating up

 

[RJUSHL]

Murry Gunty sounds like an idiot in that Twitter thread. He's confusing standings vs. rankings. They have completely different goals. Murry and the various Black Bear leagues were forced to use a KRACH rating (instead of traditional standings) because of the unbalanced schedule. They are using a KRACH (decent method) as an alternative for standings. They can't use standings because the schedules are unbalanced and different teams in the league play a different number of games. Just like in the NHL there are division standings but then all sorts of different media outlets put out their power rankings, and some of those power rankings are formula based.

Murry made the point that some team won three games over the weekend but dropped in rankings. How does he not understand that this is perfectly reasonable? Rankings are designed to be predictive and it's completely reasonable and plausible that depending on the competition you could win three games and still go down in rankings. Again, rankings are not the same as standings. Rankings are a predictive tool and helpful when traditional "standings" are not possible.

I don't think MHR has perfect methodology, but I'm not smart enough to come up with some superior formula. But it's just bizarre reading some of the comments from Murry.

The good thing is that all of this is testable. It will soon be evident which ranking methodology (MHR or Murry) have the best formula for most accurately ranking teams.

Edited November 16, 2023 by RJUSHL

[stickboy]

My guess is he doesn’t like the fact that people have to scroll way down in MHR to find the majority of AHF and THF teams.  Not good for business.

Also, IMO they are just doing what is happening here locally (independent and faux AAA) on a national scale with AHF and THF.  Exploiting parents that think their players are better than what’s available locally and want to be a part of something “bigger and better”.

How do you even call something “Tier 1” if it’s not actually the top.  It’s a growing problem in society where if we aren’t good enough to be the best, we don’t want to hear it, and just create our own version and pretend the rest doesn’t exist.  And companies have figured out how to profit from our weakness.

[ice is cold]

8 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

Murry Gunty sounds like an idiot in that Twitter thread. He's confusing standings vs. rankings. They have completely different goals. Murry and the various Black Bear leagues were forced to use a KRACH rating (instead of traditional standings) because of the unbalanced schedule. They are using a KRACH (decent method) as an alternative for standings. They can't use standings because the schedules are unbalanced and different teams in the league play a different number of games. Just like in the NHL there are division standings but then all sorts of different media outlets put out their power rankings, and some of those power rankings are formula based.

Murry made the point that some team won three games over the weekend but dropped in rankings. How does he not understand that this is perfectly reasonable? Rankings are designed to be predictive and it's completely reasonable and plausible that depending on the competition you could win three games and still go down in rankings. Again, rankings are not the same as standings. Rankings are a predictive tool and helpful when traditional "standings" are not possible.

I don't think MHR has perfect methodology, but I'm not smart enough to come up with some superior formula. But it's just bizarre reading some of the comments from Murry.

The good thing is that all of this is testable. It will soon be evident which ranking methodology (MHR or Murry) have the best formula for most accurately ranking teams.

First, I am not a fan of Murry. But MHR's has flaws. If they would fix them this entire argument would be more ridiculous from Murey.

A few I can think of (not being able to do the algorithm myself)

MHR's will tell you anything should go in the system. Scrimmages where the game would not be USA sanctioned games (ie scrimmages where teams have 30 on the bench, or players who are not in their roster)... That is an issue when USA hockey uses it to rank team. Scrimmages are meant to try things, see things, not win per say. 

Teams who cancel games when they realize they need to "meet the spread" to not drop down... which became more prevalent during/after covid. They should penalized if it's a scheduled game to make it not happen 

MHR's has teams (who have that one parent or coach who has the time), to sit there and figure out who they need to play and "the spread to meet" to get "points" vs lose them. 

It's fine if you don't have those teams (one in pit, previous years, at some age groups, starts with a V) who spend more time trying to "work the system" vs just playing hockey. 

If MHR's would make small adjustments, or if they both would work together, it would be a better system. At the end of the day, it's ego vs ego.  

[aaaahockey]

16 minutes ago, ice is cold said:

First, I am not a fan of Murry. But MHR's has flaws. If they would fix them this entire argument would be more ridiculous from Murey.

A few I can think of (not being able to do the algorithm myself)

MHR's will tell you anything should go in the system. Scrimmages where the game would not be USA sanctioned games (ie scrimmages where teams have 30 on the bench, or players who are not in their roster)... That is an issue when USA hockey uses it to rank team. Scrimmages are meant to try things, see things, not win per say. 

Teams who cancel games when they realize they need to "meet the spread" to not drop down... which became more prevalent during/after covid. They should penalized if it's a scheduled game to make it not happen 

MHR's has teams (who have that one parent or coach who has the time), to sit there and figure out who they need to play and "the spread to meet" to get "points" vs lose them. 

It's fine if you don't have those teams (one in pit, previous years, at some age groups, starts with a V) who spend more time trying to "work the system" vs just playing hockey. 

If MHR's would make small adjustments, or if they both would work together, it would be a better system. At the end of the day, it's ego vs ego.  

This is a definite problem in the high school hockey where they include the st Margaret's tourney as an example. 

[hockeyisgreat]

10 hours ago, ice is cold said:

it's ego vs ego. 

At the end of the day isn't that what all sports come down to!

[Loach]

I don't know Gunty at all but his twitter feed makes him come off as a self-serving idiot. Seems like a pointless crusade over something that could be fine-tuned but works pretty well.

[nemesis8679]

15 hours ago, Loach said:

I don't know Gunty at all but his twitter feed makes him come off as a self-serving idiot. Seems like a pointless crusade over something that could be fine-tuned but works pretty well.

The guy is a hedge-fund bro. Of course he's a self-serving idiot. 🤷

[dazedandconfused]

These Krach rankings are Awesome!!!

Very comparable to the College Football Playoff Committee

 

[RMU Alum]

An NHLer once told me - you have awesome games 1 out of 10, terrible games 1 out of 10 but you get judged on the other 8. I would love to see MHR throw out the top 10% of scores and the bottom 10% of scores and then you probably have a true ranking.

 

[YardSale]

5 hours ago, RMU Alum said:

An NHLer once told me - you have awesome games 1 out of 10, terrible games 1 out of 10 but you get judged on the other 8. I would love to see MHR throw out the top 10% of scores and the bottom 10% of scores and then you probably have a true ranking.

 

I like that, might also keep some teams from not playing a few local games because of ranking.

[kid310050]

This is going to be interesting

 

https://myhockeyrankings.com/news.php?b=1111

[aaaahockey]

Who cares about the game sheet anyway?  If they block their teams from reporting to myhockey period it would be a problem. 

[Loach]

Gunty is being an idiot, but yes, teams can just report their scores to MHR as before.

[dazedandconfused]

All hail King Murry. Exulted ruler of Zamunda.

[kid310050]

34 minutes ago, Loach said:

Gunty is being an idiot, but yes, teams can just report their scores to MHR as before.

Black Bear just making things a little more difficult is all. 

[Overqualified]

How is Armstrong ranked 7th in 18u tier 2

They are responsible for reporting scores for tier 2 to my hockey rankings 

Their score goes in immediately 

And don't post other teams for awhile to benefit themselves 

They just posted that they  beat the preds but they didn't 

I'm sure it was a HONEST mistake that will take weeks to fix

They lost to the preds twice 

They tied Np/ lebo/ Allegheny / rennagades

Don't get me wrong they have played good teams but 7th in the country ?

 

[ice is cold]

22 minutes ago, Overqualified said:

How is Armstrong ranked 7th in 18u tier 2

They are responsible for reporting scores for tier 2 to my hockey rankings 

Their score goes in immediately 

And don't post other teams for awhile to benefit themselves 

They just posted that they  beat the preds but they didn't 

I'm sure it was a HONEST mistake that will take weeks to fix

They lost to the preds twice 

They tied Np/ lebo/ Allegheny / rennagades

Don't get me wrong they have played good teams but 7th in the country ?

 

Lost faith in MHR when they told me all games should be reported. Even ones that were scrimmages who had more players on the bench than would be USA hockey sanctioned approved games. They basically said a floor hockey game should be reported. 🤦🤷🤔

[Rewster]

2 hours ago, Overqualified said:

How is Armstrong ranked 7th in 18u tier 2

They just posted that they  beat the preds but they didn't 

I'm sure it was a HONEST mistake that will take weeks to fix

They lost to the preds twice 

They tied Np/ lebo/ Allegheny / rennagades

Don't get me wrong they have played good teams but 7th in the country ?

 

The PAHL is legitimately strong this season at the 18U AA level. All of the teams you’ve listed are top-50 in Tier 2 (except for North Pittsburgh is just outside of that number). Allegheny’s independent team is included—not their PAHL 18U AA team #1.

In fact, the last time I looked, the PAHL’s 8-member 18U AA league is ranked 3rd in the entire country. 4th if you include BEAST and their 35-member league that consists of predominantly AAA Tier 1 teams—not sure why they include this league in the Tier 2 rankings when only 4 teams are classified as T2 AA their huge league.
 

The PAHL is only behind the CSDHL and Minnesota’s MNHP as the top Tier 2 AA league in the nation.

Just think what it could have been if Allegheny didn’t abdicate their top team, and the Preds and Icemen AAAs players stayed in the PAHL. The league is by no means a slouch this year. Armstrong has validated themselves as a top Tier 2 team. They’re not just playing the local unmatched teams. Plus, they have already played 45 games thus far, with only 5 regulation losses.

[Overqualified]

Armstrong still didn't fix when they lost to the preds now they have hem playing twice this weekend 

Let's wait till after Wednesday when rankings come out and don't post the other games this weekend 

[aaaahockey]

You know the preds should submit a correction?   Also the teams that beat them could submit those scores?   All of this is pretty easily fixable. 

[Overqualified]

1 minute ago, aaaahockey said:

You know the preds should submit a correction?   Also the teams that beat them could submit those scores?   All of this is pretty easily fixable. 

But Armstrong has to approve it since they are in charge of my hockey rankings in this area 

[Hockeydad9130]

Looks like the score is correct on MHR for the Armstong/Preds game to me.  Maybe it was just recently updated.  What I'm trying to figure out is how the Preds lost to the PAHL Badgers team that has 6 wins all year.

[Overqualified]

1 hour ago, Hockeydad9130 said:

Looks like the score is correct on MHR for the Armstong/Preds game to me.  Maybe it was just recently updated.  What I'm trying to figure out is how the Preds lost to the PAHL Badgers team that has 6 wins all year.

 

1 hour ago, Hockeydad9130 said:

Looks like the score is correct on MHR for the Armstong/Preds game to me.  Maybe it was just recently updated.  What I'm trying to figure out is how the Preds lost to the PAHL Badgers team that has 6 wins all year.

It is now thanks for fixing that