PPE - no games this season???

[dazedandconfused]

There are soft whispers coming out of the UPMC Center that the PPE teams will not be allowed to play any games in the near future and possibly much longer. Anyone have any direct knowledge of this as my information isn't first hand knowledge?

[aaaahockey]

14 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

There are soft whispers coming out of the UPMC Center that the PPE teams will not be allowed to play any games in the near future and possibly much longer. Anyone have any direct knowledge of this as my information isn't first hand knowledge?

Any games at UPMC or any games period?  They have been moving forward with scheduling games (boys and girls). 

[Guru]

I can’t speak for PPE but I have heard that the organization all three of my boys played with at some point in their youth hockey tenure has told families that they will not be sanctioning any out of town tourneys for the foreseeeable future.  
 

Not sure if it’s an organizational directive or PAHL leadership driven directive

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

There are soft whispers coming out of the UPMC Center that the PPE teams will not be allowed to play any games in the near future and possibly much longer. Anyone have any direct knowledge of this as my information isn't first hand knowledge?

False for midget age. Parents were told season will be played yesterday. 

[Pucks11]

Was a part of that organization for a few years and decided to leave with all of the false promises. I still talk to a few parents and with the organization and they have barely had any practices let alone talked about games(which they haven't). At the end of a practice 2 weeks ago the coach pulled the kids/parents aside and told them that they know there are a lot of rumors going around about their organization but don't believe any of it. A couple of parents  are giving them a few more weeks to start producing SOMETHING or they are asking to be released. 1 parent sent the director of operations an Email asking about the season and he got a "there will be a season" message back with nothing else to it. They can't travel to Canada until at least January and by that time the season is almost over. Detroit is pretty much just sticking to Detroit and canceling a lot with teams around here, Boston (New England Area) are closed to outsiders. There are other local organizations with 30+ games scheduled and the parents at the Pens barely know when their next practice is. There are 2 local teams trying to schedule with the Pens and they were shot down or ignored through calls/texts and Emails. 

[Danner27]

37 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

Was a part of that organization for a few years and decided to leave with all of the false promises. I still talk to a few parents and with the organization and they have barely had any practices let alone talked about games(which they haven't). At the end of a practice 2 weeks ago the coach pulled the kids/parents aside and told them that they know there are a lot of rumors going around about their organization but don't believe any of it. A couple of parents  are giving them a few more weeks to start producing SOMETHING or they are asking to be released. 1 parent sent the director of operations an Email asking about the season and he got a "there will be a season" message back with nothing else to it. They can't travel to Canada until at least January and by that time the season is almost over. Detroit is pretty much just sticking to Detroit and canceling a lot with teams around here, Boston (New England Area) are closed to outsiders. There are other local organizations with 30+ games scheduled and the parents at the Pens barely know when their next practice is. There are 2 local teams trying to schedule with the Pens and they were shot down or ignored through calls/texts and Emails. 

This is laughable, unless your are talking about mites there are no players going to ask for a release from PPE. We can complain about some of their business practices, pushing certain kids, etc but  they are the premier program in Pittsburgh. The New England area has been playing. Everything has been moved to New Hampshire. 

[ctil20]

56 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

Was a part of that organization for a few years and decided to leave with all of the false promises. I still talk to a few parents and with the organization and they have barely had any practices let alone talked about games(which they haven't). At the end of a practice 2 weeks ago the coach pulled the kids/parents aside and told them that they know there are a lot of rumors going around about their organization but don't believe any of it. A couple of parents  are giving them a few more weeks to start producing SOMETHING or they are asking to be released. 1 parent sent the director of operations an Email asking about the season and he got a "there will be a season" message back with nothing else to it. They can't travel to Canada until at least January and by that time the season is almost over. Detroit is pretty much just sticking to Detroit and canceling a lot with teams around here, Boston (New England Area) are closed to outsiders. There are other local organizations with 30+ games scheduled and the parents at the Pens barely know when their next practice is. There are 2 local teams trying to schedule with the Pens and they were shot down or ignored through calls/texts and Emails. 

This is all absolute horse shit. The Pens are practicing per usual, and have been.

If I was a betting man, I would bet you’re one of the Veng’ and friends (Vengeance). With your throbbing raging hard ons you have for the Penguins and their staff. You nerds sit around and concoct fictional detail after fictional detail about everything and anything relating to the folks in Cranberry. 
 

Meanwhile you guys are down there letting parents create rosters and call shots. Everyone in Pittsburgh is sick of your Pens Complex. Even people outside the pens. 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by ctil20

[Pucks11]

Laughable how might I ask? This board is filled with complaints about PPE. They have not been practice per usual. And yes the New England area is playing with that area only and not bringing in teams from outside those few states. You say that the Pens are the premier program yet they are being beat by local teams at various age groups that cost half the price. We used to think that also until we saw everything first hand the last few years. 

It's Laughable that you guys bring up parents running the teams at Vengeance when 1 birth year team at PPE has gotten worse each year because of 2 parents calling the shots and people just straight up leaving. Didn't the 1 Elite team have 8 kids NOT even tryout from last years team? The 2 BEST kids and a goalie because he got ran out by another deep pocketed parent. ???. 

I like how you took the saying that EVERYONE has for PPE  (Pens and friends) and tried to turn it around on the Vengeance,  you must still believe in the PPE bullshit they sell you. 

Keep on laughing when you people are dishing out thousands of dollars MORE to get beat by local teams that ACTUALLY develop kids and pick the BEST kids not the kids who's parents have the deepest pockets. 

We have no affiliation with the Vengeance either but why are the Pens afraid to schedule them this year also, they have asked multiple times? Maybe because they handled them pretty well last season and they can't be embarrassed by a local team again or people may start NOT buying into their bullshit anymore. 

The PPE ran all of their best coaches out, they lost their best skating and skills guys all to bring in buddies of the guys running the place. The Vengeance have what 4 or 5 former NHL players coaching there and 3 are former Penguins not even offered a position hell they actually ran 2 of them out of UPMC because of buddies of the higher ups. 

 

You can cry all you want what I said was from experience there and from talking to parents that are still there and upset with how they are handling this year especially not having any games scheduled and teams started playing this past weekend. 

[Saucey]

I get tired of the PPE bashing too and question the truth of this. But if you are a parent upset about games not being scheduled, then you are kind of not very bright. Any AAA or 'independent' organization is in the same boat this year. Tier II as well for tournaments. Before teams were set, it was pretty clear that out of state travel was going to be up in the air. Quarantine lists, Canada's closed borders....duh. I can't imagine trying to put a multi state schedule together right now. All of our rinks have different rules just around here, then add in different states' rules ... it's a nightmare.

[aaaahockey]

I don't get tired of the PPE bashing but I would like more clarity on what is going on up there. Probably 20 different stories just in this one thread. 

[aaaahockey]

Just as follow-up - I went to the Pens website and looked at 15u, 07, and 09.  All three of those teams have regular practices scheduled and on the calendar.  Also, the 09 has their very first game scheduled against the Vengeance. 

 

Guess not much is reliable here. 

[ctil20]

Going to end this debate before it takes up 19 pages. The Pens do an overall great job with these kids. However you can visit any program in America and find parents who have gripes. 
 

Like being a human on this earth, not everyone is going to like you based upon how they perceive reality. It’s a fact of life. 

What I will say is the Vengeance folks should really just focus on their program instead of the near constant obsession and attempts at “one upping” what goes on in Cranberry. There are a few people who come here and stir the pot about the Pens, to which I say, there is a a treasure trove of things we could talk about with SOME of the Vengeance people and SOME of the birth years down there... 

 

Yet I never see Pens parents, Pens employees or anyone else for that matter.. looking to air laundry on here or in general conversation around rinks. 
 

It’s always the Vengeance pens complex that gets the conversations started. And people, even those of us who may have had kids at Pens, kids at Pens currently, or kids never even involved with Pens are tired of hearing it. 
 

If you want to talk about it though, some of us are willing to get into some finite detail of what goes on at the Vengeance regarding some of their processes for creating teams and SOME of the parents having influence. 
 

disclaimer: there are some great hockey people involved at Vengeance. No blanket statements above. With that said, nobody cares about NHL players coaching. You cannot say the Pens are selling dreams, and in the same vein, tout that the Vengeance have NHL players for coaches. I don’t have any experience with the former players there, but if you really want to talk about who’s selling dreams.. The Vengeance are practically taking out billboards advertising this. 
 

Whether or not these NHL’rs are good coaches isn’t for me to say, I certainly hope they are and that them being a “great coach” benefits the Vengeance kids. Playing in the NHL doesn’t automatically equate to teaching youth players skills and game play though, so again, if you want to talk about selling dreams... 

 

 

 

 

[Pucks11]

1 hour ago, ctil20 said:

Going to end this debate before it takes up 19 pages. The Pens do an overall great job with these kids. However you can visit any program in America and find parents who have gripes. 
 

Like being a human on this earth, not everyone is going to like you based upon how they perceive reality. It’s a fact of life. 

What I will say is the Vengeance folks should really just focus on their program instead of the near constant obsession and attempts at “one upping” what goes on in Cranberry. There are a few people who come here and stir the pot about the Pens, to which I say, there is a a treasure trove of things we could talk about with SOME of the Vengeance people and SOME of the birth years down there... 

 

Yet I never see Pens parents, Pens employees or anyone else for that matter.. looking to air laundry on here or in general conversation around rinks. 
 

It’s always the Vengeance pens complex that gets the conversations started. And people, even those of us who may have had kids at Pens, kids at Pens currently, or kids never even involved with Pens are tired of hearing it. 
 

If you want to talk about it though, some of us are willing to get into some finite detail of what goes on at the Vengeance regarding some of their processes for creating teams and SOME of the parents having influence. 
 

disclaimer: there are some great hockey people involved at Vengeance. No blanket statements above. With that said, nobody cares about NHL players coaching. You cannot say the Pens are selling dreams, and in the same vein, tout that the Vengeance have NHL players for coaches. I don’t have any experience with the former players there, but if you really want to talk about who’s selling dreams.. The Vengeance are practically taking out billboards advertising this. 
 

Whether or not these NHL’rs are good coaches isn’t for me to say, I certainly hope they are and that them being a “great coach” benefits the Vengeance kids. Playing in the NHL doesn’t automatically equate to teaching youth players skills and game play though, so again, if you want to talk about selling dreams... 

 

 

 

 

I can agree with most of what you said here. The overall great job with the kids yes BUT only at the older age groups they openly admit to not worrying that much about the kids until midgets. 

The Vengeance are taking the Pens best kids a little at a time because they are learning to play hockey as a team where the Pens seem to focus on a few good kids and just round their roster out with whoever pays the most money. Yes that problem is everywhere in youth sports,  it's really sad. If the parents could put their egos aside youth sports would be a lot more fun. 

You must know the Pens parents that fork out the money for their kids if you never hear them complain or run their mouth. We were up there for 3+ years and that's all I heard sitting up there 3-5 nights a week. 

You can say that at the Vengeance about parents buying their kids a spot but somehow they are getting better each year ???. They keep the core kids and cut ties with the weaker ones, they have probably had the most turnover at the younger age groups and it has been for the better so far. While you take a look at the Pens teams and they keep getting worse each year because they allow mommy and daddy to buy their kids a spot on the mighty Elite team. 

I do agree with the just because they were in the NHL doesn’t mean they will make good coaches but 2 of those guys have a pretty good track record with the development of the younger kids and the Pens ran them out for the uppers buddies to come in. 

The director of operations up there is Crosby's best friend and he tosses that around when he goes out. 

You want to talk about selling dreams, how many kids from the PPE (since they became PPE) have made it to the NHL? A big fat 00. The Pens ride the old name with those posters of NHL’rs on the walls that NEVER stepped foot in that rink. 

[Danner27]

So we are talking about squirt age kids now ?  My kid played at ppe, I will always call them out for their bs. I’ve bashed the heck out of them on this site for certain things. it’s the premier Pittsburgh program like it or not. Fighting about squirts, I guess it is time for me to retire from these message boards, I keep forgetting there is always new, young hockey parents coming up the ranks that know it all & want to fight about 9 & 10 year olds making it pro. 

[Jack Handey]

52 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

how many kids from the PPE (since they became PPE) have made it to the NHL? A big fat 0

Telling if true.  @Danner27 could you confirm?  Any of your sons or sons' teammates play professionally?

[ctil20]

40 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

I can agree with most of what you said here. The overall great job with the kids yes BUT only at the older age groups they openly admit to not worrying that much about the kids until midgets. 

The Vengeance are taking the Pens best kids a little at a time because they are learning to play hockey as a team where the Pens seem to focus on a few good kids and just round their roster out with whoever pays the most money. Yes that problem is everywhere in youth sports,  it's really sad. If the parents could put their egos aside youth sports would be a lot more fun. 

You must know the Pens parents that fork out the money for their kids if you never hear them complain or run their mouth. We were up there for 3+ years and that's all I heard sitting up there 3-5 nights a week. 

You can say that at the Vengeance about parents buying their kids a spot but somehow they are getting better each year ???. They keep the core kids and cut ties with the weaker ones, they have probably had the most turnover at the younger age groups and it has been for the better so far. While you take a look at the Pens teams and they keep getting worse each year because they allow mommy and daddy to buy their kids a spot on the mighty Elite team. 

I do agree with the just because they were in the NHL doesn’t mean they will make good coaches but 2 of those guys have a pretty good track record with the development of the younger kids and the Pens ran them out for the uppers buddies to come in. 

The director of operations up there is Crosby's best friend and he tosses that around when he goes out. 

You want to talk about selling dreams, how many kids from the PPE (since they became PPE) have made it to the NHL? A big fat 00. The Pens ride the old name with those posters of NHL’rs on the walls that NEVER stepped foot in that rink. 

- I don’t know if they “worry much” or not about pre-bantam players. If they admit that, they deserve credit. Because no prep school, junior program, college organization, semi-pro team, or pro team ever gave the slightest minuscule shit what a player can do or did in squirt and Pee-Wee hockey. Squirt and Pee-Wee hockey is roller hockey on ice skates. I wouldn’t go as far to say it “doesn’t matter” but it’s certainly not the game the older kids and pros are playing, not by any stretch. 
 

- There is 1 birth year there who had a few pens kids come over. And it’s not fair to anyone to discuss the intimate details of that so we’ll leave it at that. The talent pool here isn’t large enough to fill out rosters with kids who are at the top of their age groups at the moment. Neither the Pens, nor the Vengeance are able to do this. 
 

- In regards to parents complaining at PPE. Yes, probably. Everyone’s kid is a superstar. With that said, let’s not pretend like these conversations aren’t going on in every rink in America, at every organization in America. Excel is usually the topic du jor, and it’s a valid topic. Not every parent has the resources or time to place their kid(s) in this program and some fear it might work against their kid. Whether that’s valid or not, I cannot say. 
 

- I haven’t heard of anyone buying a spot at the Vengeance. I just think there are birth years there that have parents of certain players crossing boundaries. Yet the Vengeance let it happen so they keep the kid, and the cliques by proxy. The Pens losing a few kids to the Vengeance is not that significant to the Pens, honestly, they’ll just recruit out of town and bring in kids. The Vengeance losing a few kids to the Pens is a different story. 
 

- I have no direct knowledge of anyone working at the Penguins and being run out, of that actually happened, or if it’s nonsense. What I can say is that the Pens have a sharp staff up there, who aren’t running side gigs, and are invested in their respective teams. As far as being buddies, again I don’t know those dynamics, but who really gives a shit as long as the service they are providing is of value? 
 

- The director of operations up there is about as solid and fair of an individual you’re going to find in not only youth hockey, but youth sports. Again, I don’t care if he used to ride the school bus with Crosby, if he’s doing right by Pens kids then who really cares where, why, what or how? To my knowledge, he’s the longest tenured director up there to date, must be doing something right. 
 

- It is not the Pens, nor Vengeance, nor any youth programs job to “get kids to the NHL”. Their responsibility lies with giving kids the opportunity to improve themselves as hockey players, so that they are in a position to get interest from junior teams, prep schools etc. The Pens aren’t their to wave a magic wand and turn your kid into Bryan Rust. 
 

 

 

[forbin]

49 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

So we are talking about squirt age kids now ?  My kid played at ppe, I will always call them out for their bs. I’ve bashed the heck out of them on this site for certain things. it’s the premier Pittsburgh program like it or not. Fighting about squirts, I guess it is time for me to retire from these message boards, I keep forgetting there is always new, young hockey parents coming up the ranks that know it all & want to fight about 9 & 10 year olds making it pro. 

Exactly why I personally feel that "AAA" programs should not exist prior to Bantam. Get these young kids on the ice 3-4x a week in power skating, skill sessions, game systems style practices etc and develop their skill set before giving them all the "AAA" logo'd swag and sending them to tournaments in Canada to get spanked. 

[hockey2020]

every kid at pens pays the same amount. what do people mean about people buying a spit on the team? are they donating something outside of the dues?

[hockey2020]

if you think a kid who isn’t a good player makes it onto the team bc his dad pays more than the other kids that is nonsense. there are political picks to some extent at every organization but generally speaking pens don’t gain anything by picking someone’s kid who can’t play. the good kids will pay and the bad kids will pay. they prefer the good kids and make the same amount of money. if your kid doesn’t make the team you say it’s political. silly. 

[Pucks11]

48 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

if you think a kid who isn’t a good player makes it onto the team bc his dad pays more than the other kids that is nonsense. there are political picks to some extent at every organization but generally speaking pens don’t gain anything by picking someone’s kid who can’t play. the good kids will pay and the bad kids will pay. they prefer the good kids and make the same amount of money. if your kid doesn’t make the team you say it’s political. silly. 

The Pens gain a ton of money by picking the kids with the parents that fall for all of their extra bullshit. Excel is a joke for the younger kids. The Mites Elite is a money grab. Their learn to skate programs are a HUGE money grab with how many kids they put on the ice compared to teachers. 

I can tell you that there us a cops kid on an Elite team who openly admits that his kid ISN'T good enough to be on the team but he is because he got one of the higher ups brothers off on some charges a few years ago. 

 

[Pucks11]

1 hour ago, ctil20 said:

- I don’t know if they “worry much” or not about pre-bantam players. If they admit that, they deserve credit. Because no prep school, junior program, college organization, semi-pro team, or pro team ever gave the slightest minuscule shit what a player can do or did in squirt and Pee-Wee hockey. Squirt and Pee-Wee hockey is roller hockey on ice skates. I wouldn’t go as far to say it “doesn’t matter” but it’s certainly not the game the older kids and pros are playing, not by any stretch. 
 

- There is 1 birth year there who had a few pens kids come over. And it’s not fair to anyone to discuss the intimate details of that so we’ll leave it at that. The talent pool here isn’t large enough to fill out rosters with kids who are at the top of their age groups at the moment. Neither the Pens, nor the Vengeance are able to do this. 
 

- In regards to parents complaining at PPE. Yes, probably. Everyone’s kid is a superstar. With that said, let’s not pretend like these conversations aren’t going on in every rink in America, at every organization in America. Excel is usually the topic du jor, and it’s a valid topic. Not every parent has the resources or time to place their kid(s) in this program and some fear it might work against their kid. Whether that’s valid or not, I cannot say. 
 

- I haven’t heard of anyone buying a spot at the Vengeance. I just think there are birth years there that have parents of certain players crossing boundaries. Yet the Vengeance let it happen so they keep the kid, and the cliques by proxy. The Pens losing a few kids to the Vengeance is not that significant to the Pens, honestly, they’ll just recruit out of town and bring in kids. The Vengeance losing a few kids to the Pens is a different story. 
 

- I have no direct knowledge of anyone working at the Penguins and being run out, of that actually happened, or if it’s nonsense. What I can say is that the Pens have a sharp staff up there, who aren’t running side gigs, and are invested in their respective teams. As far as being buddies, again I don’t know those dynamics, but who really gives a shit as long as the service they are providing is of value? 
 

- The director of operations up there is about as solid and fair of an individual you’re going to find in not only youth hockey, but youth sports. Again, I don’t care if he used to ride the school bus with Crosby, if he’s doing right by Pens kids then who really cares where, why, what or how? To my knowledge, he’s the longest tenured director up there to date, must be doing something right. 
 

- It is not the Pens, nor Vengeance, nor any youth programs job to “get kids to the NHL”. Their responsibility lies with giving kids the opportunity to improve themselves as hockey players, so that they are in a position to get interest from junior teams, prep schools etc. The Pens aren’t their to wave a magic wand and turn your kid into Bryan Rust. 
 

 

 

I agree with you on the prep schools watching. 

The talent in Pittsburgh is there for 2 really good teams if ego's would be set aside. 

I definitely agree that people will complain anywhere. 

I never heard of a parent buying a spot at the Vengeance either and for the Lens to just recruit a kid from out of town, don't they supposedly pride themselves on kids from this area?

And I agree with it's nkt up to those organizations to get your kids drafted. 

[Danner27]

3 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Telling if true.  @Danner27 could you confirm?  Any of your sons or sons' teammates play professionally?

One is pro over in Sweden, the majority of the success for the pro level came under the Pittsburgh Hornets. 

[Danner27]

3 hours ago, forbin said:

Exactly why I personally feel that "AAA" programs should not exist prior to Bantam. Get these young kids on the ice 3-4x a week in power skating, skill sessions, game systems style practices etc and develop their skill set before giving them all the "AAA" logo'd swag and sending them to tournaments in Canada to get spanked. 

Well said and it will stop the notorious “burn out” by age 16. 

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

if you think a kid who isn’t a good player makes it onto the team bc his dad pays more than the other kids that is nonsense. there are political picks to some extent at every organization but generally speaking pens don’t gain anything by picking someone’s kid who can’t play. the good kids will pay and the bad kids will pay. they prefer the good kids and make the same amount of money. if your kid doesn’t make the team you say it’s political. silly. 

Well, I can point you to a 2003 player who was on the 4th line at esmark this past season. This year, he’s on PPE. He’s attended excel for 3 years. He’s on because the family has been paying into the excel program. The kid just isn’t very good. 

[dazedandconfused]

22 hours ago, Danner27 said:

False for midget age. Parents were told season will be played yesterday.

Okay, I'll take the bait. You let me know the first time that you hear of any of their teams actually playing a game under the PPE name. Not scheduling a game, but actually playing a game.