Jack Handey Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 is Pittsburgh Vengeance a for-profit entity? Is the junior club a for-profit operation, or are all of the Vengeance teams for-profit? How much help do they get from Pittsburgh Amateur Hockey Association DBA Steel City Ice Renegades, which is supposedly a 501(c)3 ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Do you have a complaint about the Vengeance and SCIR? All I know is that the Vengeance took a lot of the SCIR kids at Bantam when they first started the 06 AAA team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 That whole situation is confusing to me. Why do the Vengeance youth (squirt-bantam) teams exist? Why not just make SCIR the "feeder" program into the Vengeance junior team? I'm not knocking it, because I don't know much about those programs. Whats the difference between the Vengeance youth teams and SCIR PAHL teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, forbin said: That whole situation is confusing to me. Why do the Vengeance youth (squirt-bantam) teams exist? Why not just make SCIR the "feeder" program into the Vengeance junior team? I'm not knocking it, because I don't know much about those programs. Whats the difference between the Vengeance youth teams and SCIR PAHL teams? I believe the Vengeance teams are all considered AAA They play independant schedules. SCIR has no AAA teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Vengeance “junior” team is definitely for profit ? post varsity hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, Danner27 said: Vengeance “junior” team is definitely for profit ? post varsity hockey. Are they age group? I know they bring kids in and have Billet families. Is it the same as Esmark? Do the kids have to pay to play for the "junior" team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlan2020 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 There are a lot of good players on SCIR PAHL squirt teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Quinlan2020 said: There are a lot of good players on SCIR PAHL squirt teams. Someone told me they were scrubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said: Are they age group? I know they bring kids in and have Billet families. Is it the same as Esmark? Do the kids have to pay to play for the "junior" team? Tier 3 juniors is pay to play. The EHL is a decent league, everything else not so much. The level of play is pretty weak. 16/18U AAA is higher quality hockey. The 19 & 20 year olds playing on the vengeance are probably on the same level as the kids playing 18U AAA at a place like the predators, but the kids at the vengeance are older. Take a look at last years vengeance roster on elite prospects, that will paint the picture for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlan2020 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, forbin said: Someone told me they were scrubs. Some are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 So are the Vengeance playing this year in the USPHL? Couldn't find anything on their website about this years team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Quinlan2020 said: There are a lot of good players on SCIR PAHL squirt teams. I heard that was all coaching 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Handey Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 So if Vengeance is for-profit, and SCIR is not, can someone clear up how the programs interact? Are my SCIR fees going to pay for Vengeance expenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jack Handey said: So if Vengeance is for-profit, and SCIR is not, can someone clear up how the programs interact? Are my SCIR fees going to pay for Vengeance expenses? Why do you think they interact other than they took players from SCIR mostly to form their AAA teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miked Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 don't the Vengeance AAA Minor BY teams play in PAHL as SCIR Major BY AA? i'm thinking this is what is meant as interaction. I would find it hard to believe they would be so stupid as to co-mingle profit and non profit entities, but i have no insider knowledge of their book keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Handey Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Yeah, like when a Renegades team rolls into a PAHL game with SCIR jerseys/shells/socks but all the kids have red helmets on. Pretty sure that red isn't in the SCIR color scheme. Is SCIR used as a fundraiser for the red helmet crew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafa fohi Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jack Handey said: Yeah, like when a Renegades team rolls into a PAHL game with SCIR jerseys/shells/socks but all the kids have red helmets on. Pretty sure that red isn't in the SCIR color scheme. Is SCIR used as a fundraiser for the red helmet crew? You don't know what you are talking about. V teams are littered with kids from other PAHL teams and this years teams include many PPE Black players that landed there after those teams were disbanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Handey Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 I saw it with my own eyes but I don't know what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafa fohi Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jack Handey said: I saw it with my own eyes but I don't know what I'm talking about. And I quote - "Yeah, like when a Renegades team rolls into a PAHL game with SCIR jerseys/shells/socks but all the kids have red helmets on. Pretty sure that red isn't in the SCIR color scheme. Is SCIR used as a fundraiser for the red helmet crew?" So what are you saying? Are you agreeing with the commenter that said V teams are being supported by SCIR players? Because if you are, that is a contradiction to what you said that SCIR teams have players wearing red helmets, meaning former V players are now on SCIR rosters. In reality, have players from other organizations displaced former V players based on say, that thing they call tryouts so that is why so many red helmets are now on SCIR teams? And isn't that the way it is supposed to be? And when you say "all" of the kids have red helmets on, do you mean 1,2,5 or all meaning a sea of red buckets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Handey Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Whole team. Red buckets & blue jerseys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafa fohi Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Jack Handey said: Whole team. Red buckets & blue jerseys. So if what you say is true, then former V players are supporting SCIR teams and not the other way around. And it appears the V organization is not rolling teams over every year and instead, is showing players not from the organization can make their teams based on what occurs at tryouts. Sounds OK to me. BTW, what SCIR level team is entirely made up of former V players? Edited September 3, 2020 by fafa fohi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaahockey Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 41 minutes ago, fafa fohi said: So if what you say is true, then former V players are supporting SCIR teams and not the other way around. And it appears the V organization is not rolling teams over every year and instead, is showing players not from the organization can make their teams based on what occurs at tryouts. Sounds OK to me. BTW, what SCIR level team is entirely made up of former V players? Squirt minor AA SCIR team last year was the Vengeance 2010 team and 09 before that and 08 before that. I believe that's how they sell their program - play a pahl and aaa schedule. I do not believe the 08s played peewee pahl last year and I don't believe the 09s are this year so it might just be a squirt thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, aaaahockey said: Squirt minor AA SCIR team last year was the Vengeance 2010 team and 09 before that and 08 before that. I believe that's how they sell their program - play a pahl and aaa schedule. I do not believe the 08s played peewee pahl last year and I don't believe the 09s are this year so it might just be a squirt thing. So are the Vengeance youth teams essentially double rostered as SCIR AA teams? So a PAHL AA + "AAA" independent schedule? Sounds similar to the Viper Stars concept? Sorry if I'm spouting off nonsense, I know nothing about these organizations, but this is intriguing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 You guys are arguing over squirts ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKCHECKING Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 1st year squirt teams play an independent schedule as the Vengeance and a PAHL AA schedule under the SCIR logo. Other than that, I do not believe that they have any other affiliation. I have heard that the new 2011 Vengeance BY team will not be playing a PAHL schedule this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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