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North Pittsburgh 16U and 14U supplemental tryouts


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9 hours ago, NPGH Director of Hockey said:

North Pittsburgh has a few spots open at various 16U and 14U levels. We are holding supplemental tryout skates on the following dates. 

14u - July 10th at 10:30 am to 11:50 am

16u - July 14th at 5:00 pm to 6:10 pm

If you have interest please email directorofhockey@wildcatshockey.net. 

Hmm, this is an interesting development.

Isn’t NP coming off last season with sending two teams to Nationals, while closing registrations for both the U14 and U16 tryouts for this upcoming season because they had reached their capacity?  If so what in the heck happened?

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Icemen happened....at 16u, NP created a 06 BY team out of tryouts...but most of those kids left to chase the extra "A".  So NP had to rearrange all the teams, after they'd already been announced. Lots of other kids declined at that point. Total CF.

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2 hours ago, powderfinger said:

Icemen happened....at 16u, NP created a 06 BY team out of tryouts...but most of those kids left to chase the extra "A".  So NP had to rearrange all the teams, after they'd already been announced. Lots of other kids declined at that point. Total CF.

If there's one thing I've learned over many years about PAHL, BY teams are a bad idea.  More trouble than they're worth.  With regards to the Icemen, I think only two 06 players are from NP's 14U team.  Not sure where the others went.  NP also had their 16U tryouts in late May which I think was too late.

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North Pitt is typically strapped for ice aren't they? 14U seems odd as they normally have more than enough for 4 teams or more but in recent years they seem to be shying away from more than one team at 18's and 2 at 16U. I also believe that the NA Coaching staff of Toe Blake, Scotty Bowman and Al Arbour put pressure on the players to not play amateur hockey.

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Sorry, but everything about your statement is incorrect. 

Ice isn't an issue

We have 6 teams at 14u. We need a few players to fill a couple spots. 

We have 5 teams at 16u. Need a few players to fill some spots. 

And NA coaching staff has no bearing on us and does not pressure players not to play amateur. I have boys in both systems so I know. 

 

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19 minutes ago, sarampage said:

If there's one thing I've learned over many years about PAHL, BY teams are a bad idea.  More trouble than they're worth.  With regards to the Icemen, I think only two 06 players are from NP's 14U team.  Not sure where the others went.  NP also had their 16U tryouts in late May which I think was too late.

Yes, we do not really like the BY model ourselves. We feel it weakens the competition and the kids do not develope as much. However, so many parents scream for it without really understanding. 

Also there are a minimum of 4 06 players from NPGH on that iceman team. 

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22 minutes ago, sarampage said:

If there's one thing I've learned over many years about PAHL, BY teams are a bad idea.  More trouble than they're worth.  

Wholeheartedly agree. Just don't have the numbers around here. Field your best team and be done with it.

 

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32 minutes ago, sarampage said:

If there's one thing I've learned over many years about PAHL, BY teams are a bad idea.  More trouble than they're worth.  With regards to the Icemen, I think only two 06 players are from NP's 14U team.  Not sure where the others went.  NP also had their 16U tryouts in late May which I think was too late.

Many of the 06's from last years 14U AA team made the top team at NP - the others were on the 06BY team along with other 06's that probably played major black last year (or lower). A bunch of those went to Icemen...look at their roster, lots of players never played AA before.

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31 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Wholeheartedly agree. Just don't have the numbers around here. Field your best team and be done with it.

 

Or in this case field your best SIX teams. Was anyone cut from tryouts? 

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With relation to NP's U16-1 team, is that considered a BY team because over half the team is made up of 06 players, which then dilutes the talent for a true 06 / U15 BY team.  Thus maybe the reason why 06's bolted for elsewhere?

If you have a BY model, great but stick to it.

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1 hour ago, powderfinger said:

Many of the 06's from last years 14U AA team made the top team at NP - the others were on the 06BY team along with other 06's that probably played major black last year (or lower). A bunch of those went to Icemen...look at their roster, lots of players never played AA before.

I should have specified 14UAA  players that went to the Icemen...true about the 16UAA team - I think it consists of about 7-8 06s.

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4 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

With relation to NP's U16-1 team, is that considered a BY team because over half the team is made up of 06 players, which then dilutes the talent for a true 06 / U15 BY team.  Thus maybe the reason why 06's bolted for elsewhere?

If you have a BY model, great but stick to it.

No.

Before this BY thing caught on, your top team was usually BY by default, the older kids usually do better than the rising ones in tryouts, with some exceptions. When people talk about BY, they want the same age to be the rising age group, too. Play with the same kids each year, keep them together regardless of how each kid develops, etc.

However, when you have a low BY, which the 05s have been since day 1, then your top team may not be all the same BY. There are simply not enough AA 05s playing around here. Even AAA has historically been weak. 07s are also a low BY. I bet this pandemic is going to cause another year or two of low BY, so the issue is not going away. There are probably going to be two teams made up of all 05s in AA this coming season. That's how low the numbers are.

It just doesn't work in PAHL because Western PA is not a large enough hockey market to have the numbers of similarly skilled kids. PAHL can't even do it well for the one year they tell programs to do a minor BY team, because the rural programs struggle to field AA without mixing the ages. (Bantam)

Can you tell I hate BY? But yes, parents become convinced that is the way to go.

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6 hours ago, NPGH Director of Hockey said:

And NA coaching staff has no bearing on us and does not pressure players not to play amateur.

So the Coach has never told players not to play amateur because he wanted to use his HS team as a full season team with tournaments and such included just like an amateur team?

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6 hours ago, NPGH Director of Hockey said:

Yes, we do not really like the BY model ourselves. We feel it weakens the competition and the kids do not develope as much. However, so many parents scream for it without really understanding. 

Also there are a minimum of 4 06 players from NPGH on that iceman team. 

Cool someone running a Pahl org is posting. What happened to the U18 & U16 landscape in Pahl ? Particularly this rumor of 3-4 18U AA teams. It’s mentioned here NORTH PGH won’t have a team. In years past your org was always one of the biggest in regards to tier 2. I see you mentioned the faux icemen  hurt. 

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Essentially, the non-birth year model helps the older birth year if they are short on kids.  However, I think most of the kids that play up would be better off if they played with their birth year.  The reason, they would have more success on the ice.  Frankly, the younger kids just can't do as much against older kids.  This doesn't help the players development.  It is one thing if you are the star of the team but if you are on the bottom line and do not see power play or pk time then you are definitely better off playing with your birth year. 

 

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2 hours ago, twoboys said:

Essentially, the non-birth year model helps the older birth year if they are short on kids.  However, I think most of the kids that play up would be better off if they played with their birth year.  The reason, they would have more success on the ice.  Frankly, the younger kids just can't do as much against older kids.  This doesn't help the players development.  It is one thing if you are the star of the team but if you are on the bottom line and do not see power play or pk time then you are definitely better off playing with your birth year. 

 

I've observed the exact opposite. Many kids I know who play up develop more in PAHL. A top AA player can and does do well up. An entire rising BY playing AA frequently struggles and I think is better as an A Major team if you are going to do it.. But the next year, they tend to be a dominant team at AA.

But it also depends on the kid. And size. And if the birth year team is uneven talent, or playing over their heads as a faux AAA team, that is definitely not better. I don't see Icemen improving players. The kids end their season at the same level. When BY trumps talent, some weaker players get put on the team sometimes. 

It is entirely illogical to play 'AAA' hockey when it is over the team's head. That's not development. It makes no sense to me to play at that level with a roster with some AA players all the way down to low level players and call that superior to a mixed team of similar skill playing in a division of similar level teams, all in the name of playing 'BY'. 

And I know plenty who were disillusioned with Icemen. The rosters change quite a bit each year.

Parents get to decide, ultimately. There will always be an Icemen team of some sort for the disgruntled and disillusioned.

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3 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I've observed the exact opposite. Many kids I know who play up develop more in PAHL. A top AA player can and does do well up. An entire rising BY playing AA frequently struggles and I think is better as an A Major team if you are going to do it.. But the next year, they tend to be a dominant team at AA.

I agree...every situation is different, but it's  contrary to what I've seen as well.  My son played PAHL AA as a minor BY and it was it was huge for his development.  I've also seen the same for others who were put in the same situation.  I think, overall, if the player and team are properly placed, and the player can keep up with the older kids, it can only benefit.  The speed might be a shock at the beginning, but the game will eventually slow down.

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The Icemen issues not withstanding, the management group at FP didn't do themselves any favors this season by requiring all Yeti players to purchase all new on ice apparel materials even if the player was not in need. Jerseys, socks, shells and practice jerseys. I know a couple of families and it did not sit well as the pricing structure seemed a bit on the overpriced side according to them. This was especially true when a family hadn't had any costs associated with this stuff in their plans.

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4 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

The Icemen issues not withstanding, the management group at FP didn't do themselves any favors this season by requiring all Yeti players to purchase all new on ice apparel materials even if the player was not in need. Jerseys, socks, shells and practice jerseys. I know a couple of families and it did not sit well as the pricing structure seemed a bit on the overpriced side according to them. This was especially true when a family hadn't had any costs associated with this stuff in their plans.

Did they change uniform designs?

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4 hours ago, Saucey said:

I've observed the exact opposite. Many kids I know who play up develop more in PAHL. A top AA player can and does do well up. An entire rising BY playing AA frequently struggles and I think is better as an A Major team if you are going to do it.. But the next year, they tend to be a dominant team at AA.

But it also depends on the kid. And size. And if the birth year team is uneven talent, or playing over their heads as a faux AAA team, that is definitely not better. I don't see Icemen improving players. The kids end their season at the same level. When BY trumps talent, some weaker players get put on the team sometimes. 

It is entirely illogical to play 'AAA' hockey when it is over the team's head. That's not development. It makes no sense to me to play at that level with a roster with some AA players all the way down to low level players and call that superior to a mixed team of similar skill playing in a division of similar level teams, all in the name of playing 'BY'. 

And I know plenty who were disillusioned with Icemen. The rosters change quite a bit each year. Do Parents get to decide, ultimately. There will always be an Icemen team of some sort for the disgruntled and disillusioned.

I don't think many kids can do it unless the top birth year is weak.  At best one or two kids can do it in an organization.  SHAHA 07 played up.  They had a more competitive year than 07 Badgers who ran the table and won both banners.    

People that I know that went the Icemen route have been pretty happy with the coaching.  I do agree at some point they get disillusioned with the team's performance.

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