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Preds birth year teams all playing independent schedule


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1 minute ago, RJUSHL said:

Don't know for sure but it seems like they don't want to be playing primarily against kids a year older and in an "A" division. I'm just wondering if a AA Minor division would keep them in PAHL.

That’s not AA hockey then. 

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3 minutes ago, BeaverFalls said:

That’s not AA hockey then. 

Do you think having a 14U AA Major and a 14U AA Minor division in PAHL (like they have) is a bad idea?

I don't think it's an insane idea to have AA Minor divisions at the 12U and 10U level if it keeps more teams in PAHL. That's the idea I'm trying to explore. Who really cares if it's "true" AA or not. 

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4 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Do you think having a 14U AA Major and a 14U AA Minor division in PAHL (like they have) is a bad idea?

I don't think it's an insane idea to have AA Minor divisions at the 12U and 10U level if it keeps more teams in PAHL. That's the idea I'm trying to explore. Who really cares if it's "true" AA or not. 

I agree with you 100%  AA Major and Minor makes a whole lot of sense.  That's probably why it won't happen.

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3 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Do you think having a 14U AA Major and a 14U AA Minor division in PAHL (like they have) is a bad idea?

Yes.  It has been discussed on here before many times.  First year checking kids learn checking better when there are mentors around.  And for the umpteeth thousdanth time:  this market is SMALL, and even the biggest organizations struggle to find 15 skill peers in the every birth year.  Why in the world would you put AA, A major, and A minor kids on the same team?  Makes zero sense.

 

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1 minute ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I agree with you 100%  AA Major and Minor makes a whole lot of sense.  That's probably why it won't happen.

Finally someone was willing to say whether they thought it made sense or not!

Anyone think it's a bad idea and would cause even more teams to leave? Anyone think it would hurt PAHL?

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1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

Aviators 2010 team initially wanted to play PAHL AA, but after some scrimmages they realize it's just not going to happen. So instead of dropping down to A Major Black or lower, they'll just go independent.

So typical.  They ran away from Renegades because they didn't get their way and now they're running away from the local community because they didn't get their way  Good luck playing an all 2010 schedule in Buffalo and Detroit.

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4 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Yes.  It has been discussed on here before many times.  First year checking kids learn checking better when there are mentors around.  And for the umpteeth thousdanth time:  this market is SMALL, and even the biggest organizations struggle to find 15 skill peers in the every birth year.  Why in the world would you put AA, A major, and A minor kids on the same team?  Makes zero sense.

Do you think if they had AA Major and Minor divisions at the younger age groups, less teams would be leaving PAHL? 

I understand you hate BY teams, but for the "umpteeth thousdanth time", that is not going to change. 

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1 minute ago, RJUSHL said:

Do you think if they had AA Major and Minor divisions at the younger age groups, less teams would be leaving PAHL? 

I'm not really aware of an exodus.  So far you mentioned maybe some Preds teams and possibly SHAHA.  If they want to play exclusive birth year I say have at it - enjoy the 3-4 hour car rides and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.  

 

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1 minute ago, Jack Handey said:

I'm not really aware of an exodus.  So far you mentioned maybe some Preds teams and possibly SHAHA.  If they want to play exclusive birth year I say have at it - enjoy the 3-4 hour car rides and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.  

At the 12U level I'm aware of:

Aviators 10
Predators 09
Predators 10
Rebellion 10

That's not nothing. Three of the better 2010 teams.

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28 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

At the 12U level I'm aware of:

Aviators 10
Predators 09
Predators 10
Rebellion 10

That's not nothing. Three of the better 2010 teams.

What a shame, but I've seen it all before.  So they'll play eleven year-olds from 4 hour drive away, and backfill their schedule with local tournaments like MyHockey A2 and HockeyTime A2 in which they wind up playing PAHL teams anyway.

It's pretty contemptible to think that eleven year-olds can't develop in PAHL, and morally bankrupt to convince others of the same.  The good news ahead is that the average hockey parent is pretty smart will eventually figure this BS out.  Sometimes you just have so spend enough of your money and your time to realize what's going on.    

Edited by Jack Handey
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39 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

I understand you hate BY teams, but for the "umpteeth thousdanth time", that is not going to change. 

I don't hate birth year.  Works really good in places like Toronto.  And works really good in Tier I. 

You know what isn't going to change?  There will always be coaches who pander to parents to build teams around their own kids.  That will never change, but it has nothing to do with organizing around birth year.  

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Don’t the AA teams usually play 15 to 20 more games a year compared to A major teams? Do organizations / parents want the BY teams to have a larger schedule?

Last year NP AA played 50 games and NP A major played 35. Steel City AA played 70 and Steel City A major played 29.

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1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

So typical.  They ran away from Renegades because they didn't get their way and now they're running away from the local community because they didn't get their way  Good luck playing an all 2010 schedule in Buffalo and Detroit.

This is 100% false. Aviators have only played 2 games against 09 teams in PAHL. Tied Viper Stars 2-2 and lost to Renegades. They aren’t running away from anything. Not sure where that info is coming from. 

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1 hour ago, MikeJoseph said:

This is 100% false. Aviators have only played 2 games against 09 teams in PAHL. Tied Viper Stars 2-2 and lost to Renegades. They aren’t running away from anything. Not sure where that info is coming from. 

So they are for sure playing PAHL no matter where they end up?

Those are decent results against 09 teams. 

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2 hours ago, BACKCHECKING said:

Don’t the AA teams usually play 15 to 20 more games a year compared to A major teams? Do organizations / parents want the BY teams to have a larger schedule?

Last year NP AA played 50 games and NP A major played 35. Steel City AA played 70 and Steel City A major played 29.

It’s completely up to each team. A lot of AA teams play their PAHL schedule but then also a few tournaments and a bunch of independently scheduled games. But any team can do this. For an ambitious team and coach I think it makes sense to play PAHL and a dozen or so independent games. I just don’t want the better teams to leave PAHL completely and I’m starting to see that trend at the younger age groups. 

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4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

I'm not really aware of an exodus.  So far you mentioned maybe some Preds teams and possibly SHAHA.  If they want to play exclusive birth year I say have at it - enjoy the 3-4 hour car rides and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.  

 

Those 3-4 hours drives will seem like nothing once the kid hits his mid-teens, and burned out on hockey, decides to have nothing to do with it anymore, and decides to hang out with his girlfriend instead. Like all the PAHL & PIHL kids. 

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1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

What's better: Being on a bad AA team or a good A Major team?  Just wondering what most people would prefer for their kids!

For me - doesn't matter if it's B or AAA as long as the games are competitive for my kids.  I want them to be in a place where they are frequently challenged but in an environment where they can get puck touches without being steamrolled. 

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18 hours ago, Danner27 said:

12 year old “powerhouse teams” ? 🙄

teams ranked below 50 in tier 1 are basically very good AA teams. When you get into that 75 and further range, they turn into mediocre AA teams that the majority of top 30 AA teams will beat. I just noticed (U18) team Ohio tier 2 AA beat the vengeance tier 1 “AAA” team. It’s all about the extra “A” for parents, it’s not so much the kids. 

 

the 2005 Vengeance team got smacked around all weekend not to mention being out shot 2-1,  and one game 4-1.... One daddy put both teams together.....

 

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 PAHL has to do a better job. A lot of this lies at their feet and the league should not get a free pass with the exodus. Honestly, I believe that they should still govern AA but it needs to be treated differently than A minor 3. 
The AA divisions are notoriously too big every year and the gap between the top and bottom is historically immense.I get the fact that this is somewhat of a necessity because nobody wants to play in a 5 team division but… just spitballing here…

- Make the AA division 12 teams with a 20 game schedule (yes.. organizations can charge more). Mid season, divide the top 6 and the bottom 6 onto two separate divisions. Relegation if you will. This way, the top teams aren’t obligated to spend another Sunday putting up a 10 spot on team 12 and each division could play for their own respective banner.

-Start at squirt (because they are the youngest group and the players/teams that you want to get a buy in from) and work with the DVHL to play a season end AA tournament from the top 2-3 teams in each division for an AA state banner. Do a mid season tournament maybe. 
As a byproduct, teams from each side of the state could form good relationships and possibly set up independent games during the season. 

-Outside of AA, for the love of god…please do something about the placement process that allows some of the smaller organizations (Johnstown, Westmoreland, etc…) to have teams playing in A Major 2 hat have 3-4 players who are playing 1 to 2 divisions below their skill level and dominate. I get the fact that they have a smaller pool of players but something has to give here. It has been going on for years. I don’t necessarily have a solution but it is a problem. Some of the goal differentials are staggering.

I know that I have offered other ideas on other threads but PAHL needs to revamp a bit and offer a modicum of critical thinking.

Lastly, as far as the independent teams leaving PAHL… there are SOME teams over the years that fall into the category  of not have being anywhere near the calibre of PPE or Tier 1 but can see that they are a few notches above what PAHL AA will have to offer on the upcoming season. It’s not every year or age group but it does happen. Kudos to the teams who legitimately see that and make a move as opposed to spending their weekends winning games by 7-8 goals. 
It’s the copycat teams that go independent just for the sake of doing it that create the problems. 

Pick the above ideas apart if you want or… crazy thought here.. modify or add to them. I understand that there are logistical issues with what I’m proposing but everything starts with an idea and a little bit of thinking.

I want PAHL to be successful and a place where all skill levels are nurtured. The landscape has changed and it won’t happen when they keep running out the same old model year after year for AA all the way down to B.
This is another contributing factor as to why some teams, right or not, leave.

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11 hours ago, BACKCHECKING said:

Don’t the AA teams usually play 15 to 20 more games a year compared to A major teams? Do organizations / parents want the BY teams to have a larger schedule?

Last year NP AA played 50 games and NP A major played 35. Steel City AA played 70 and Steel City A major played 29.

Not sure what an organization that only has one team is supposed to to?  Move their entire team up to a level too high for them?

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9 hours ago, muckerandgrinder said:

 

I want PAHL to be successful and a place where all skill levels are nurtured. The landscape has changed and it won’t happen when they keep running out the same old model year after year for AA all the way down to B.
This is another contributing factor as to why some teams, right or not, leave.

Great ideas!  Sounds to me like you need to get on the board at PAHL.  Do they need a new bunch of critical thinkers on their Board?  Too late for this year but it needs to start now for next year.  Bottom line if you don't change you get left behind!

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13 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

the 2005 Vengeance team got smacked around all weekend not to mention being out shot 2-1,  and one game 4-1.... One daddy put both teams together.....

 

Vengance are like the aviators in that if you pay enough money, dad can bring all his kids, relatives, and their friends and even be the "coach" I'm sure that team will move somewhere next year with a different jersey. 

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