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Armstrong vs Mars incident


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11 minutes ago, Wes said:

Thank goodness our family is out of PAHL & PIHL hockey.  We had problems mostly at 18uAA with both of those refs, and while they both are very veteran refs, they can get too much into the game themselves and off the tracks.

It's no surprise to me that these 2 names were associated with the game in question.  The worst part of this is Trego is either on or attends disciplinary hearings and for him to ignore this going on while he is calling the game is unacceptable.

I agree with the other posters that the video of this game should go to Safesport and bypass the PIHL.

I hope the parent of that goalie takes action.

 

Trego has been an instructor for USA Hockey referees. 

He is a disgrace.   He wantonly ignores what happens on the ice.

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https://cdn2.sportngin.com/attachments/document/9b62-2051969/PIHL2019DecemberDisciplinaryReport.pdf

 

DISCUSSION POINTS

1. Ownership

a. Starts from the top

            i. League and association leaders have to take action to curb this problem.

            ii. Everyone is against poor sportsmanship until it happens within their organization; then no one wants to take a stand against it. Example: Greensburg Salem parents blaming opposing students instead of citing that one of their own parents threw the bottle of water on the ice.

b. Sportsmanship is everyone’s responsibility!

i. Parents and coaches have far more ability to be proactive to sportsmanship issues; by nature, the referees and PIHL can only be reactive when sportsmanship is not upheld.

ii. We click more on the PIHL Suspension List in each week’s PIHL newsletter than we do on everything else combined, including the sportsmanship message. This indicates we care more about knowing the problems than we care about fixing the problems.

2. Officiating

a. No blame can be placed on the officiating – it is not the problem.

i. Not liking the officiating is not a reason to exhibit appalling behaviors

ii. Officiating is not the parents’ responsibility to address anyway

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I do have a comment to every one of you wanna-be supervisors bitching about the officials....

// Rant Mode ON

LACE 'EM UP AND GET OUT THERE AND PROVE THAT YOU CAN DO BETTER! NO EXCUSES LIKE "I CAN"T SKATE OR I WOULD"! PUT UP OR STFU ALREADY! I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY PROMISING YOUNG OFFICIALS I HAVE SEEN QUIT OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS BECAUSE OF YAHOOS LIKE YOU! I GUARANTEE THAT IT IS A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO SEE THE PLAY FROM THE TOP ROW THAN IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. THE DIFFERENCE IS LIKE WATCHING VIDEO IN SUPER SLOW MO ON A 60" SCREEN VS WATCHING ON FAST FORWARD THROUGH A FISHEY LENS. EVEN STANDING AGAINST THE GLASS IN THE CORNER IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT THAN BEING PART OF THE PLAY.

//Rant mode OFF

 

Edited by GrumpyOldPucker
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59 minutes ago, Michael Cominos said:
I feel it is necessary for me to speak up on this forum and offer my apologies the entire Western Pennsylavania Hockey Community, the Mars School District Community, the Mars Area School District and the hockey team itself for the behavior of our student section Thursday night. 
 
Since we first heard of these behaviors as school adminstrators we have been in contact with PIHL league president, the owner/operator of the venue in which the game occured, as well as our local president expressing our displeasure for this behavior as well as the lack of effort on security officers part as well as the arena management. 
 
We have reached out and discussed this incident with the adminstration Mars High School to offer our aplogogies not only to them but mostly to offer our apologies to the young lady that was ridiculed. The school adminstration stated that they appreicated our efforts in this regard. 
 
We have been in contact with the league president and have been part of banning our students from attending any further games until at some time when the PIHL feels we have taken enough steps to ensure apporiate behavior. We will respect to any decision they make and will be supportive in any way in which we can.  Ironically, we are in the process of creating and implementing a sportsmanship program within our school to serve as an educational opportunity for our students. Unfortunately, we were not fast enough in the implementation of this propgram. 
 
We are still trying to identify the students from the video to take disciplinary action. The bottom line is we do not condone these actions from any of our students and will look to take appropriate disciplinary actions as a school. 
 
This is certainly a mess. We are embarrassed and working hard to change the behaviors and ensure what happened Thursday night never hapens again. 
 
Mike Cominos
Principal
 

Had to push this forward. I sure hope it is real and Mr Cominos follows through with all of this. I don't like the typos and misspelling although I know how it can happen.

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17 minutes ago, GrumpyOldPucker said:

I do have a comment to every one of you wanna-be supervisors bitching about the officials....

// Rant Mode ON

LACE 'EM UP AND GET OUT THERE AND PROVE THAT YOU CAN DO BETTER! NO EXCUSES LIKE "I CAN"T SKATE OR I WOULD"! PUT UP OR STFU ALREADY! I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY PROMISING YOUNG OFFICIALS I HAVE SEEN QUIT OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS BECAUSE OF YAHOOS LIKE YOU! I GUARANTEE THAT IT IS A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO SEE THE PLAY FROM THE TOP ROW THAN IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. THE DIFFERENCE IS LIKE WATCHING VIDEO IN SUPER SLOW MO ON A 60" SCREEN VS WATCHING ON FAST FORWARD THROUGH A FISHEY LENS. EVEN STANDING AGAINST THE GLASS IN THE CORNER IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT THAN BEING PART OF THE PLAY.

//Rant mode OFF

 

I would agree if this was about the play on the ice. It is not. Officials stop games for spectator issues all the time. If this was directed at either of them, it would not have been tolerated. What happened goes way beyond “ref you suck” or “call it both ways” - comments that I have seen games stopped and spectators thrown out for. I usually side with officials, but not this time.

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1 hour ago, my3sons said:

Write articles about it on your website until they do something.

The PIHL only responds to being embarrassed.

http://burghhockey.com/category/pihl/

 

I will be addressing this during both of my broadcasts tonight. I was waiting to see what the fallout was before addressing it, as well as get my thoughts together. Embarrassing the league, who sanctioned the game, is only good if there was no action taken and if they are at 100% fault. The officials are a separate entity. The school, pending their agreement with the association, is a separate entity. I also do to not want to call out the players for Armstrong, who by many accounts were innocent in this on the ice outside of not trying to say something to the fans, but you can’t be sure what happens out there. This had a lot of moving parts, and it seems like it was at least somewhat dealt with. 

At the end of the day I’d rather be right than fast, and I’ve been talking to people that have been on-site. 

Edited by Mitch
Clarification: players could have stopped their fans too
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29 minutes ago, Ynot02 said:

I would agree if this was about the play on the ice. It is not. Officials stop games for spectator issues all the time. If this was directed at either of them, it would not have been tolerated. What happened goes way beyond “ref you suck” or “call it both ways” - comments that I have seen games stopped and spectators thrown out for. I usually side with officials, but not this time.

👆 Hit the nail on the head

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19 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I will be addressing this during both of my broadcasts tonight. I was waiting to see what the fallout was before addressing it, as well as get my thoughts together. Embarrassing the league, who sanctioned the game, is only good if there was no action taken and if they are at 100% fault. The officials are a separate entity. The school, pending their agreement with the association, is a separate entity. I also do to not want to call out the players for Armstrong, who by many accounts were innocent in this on the ice outside of not trying to say something to the fans, but you can’t be sure what happens out there. This had a lot of moving parts, and it seems like it was at least somewhat dealt with. 

At the end of the day I’d rather be right than fast, and I’ve been talking to people that have been on-site. 

Just so everybody is aware, I just spoke with the league. At minimum right now the Armstrong students are not allowed to attend the games. Tonight‘s game, possibly going forward. There will be a closed door executive committee meeting on Wednesday in which they will rule on further details. As I stated earlier, there are so many moving parts to this that at the end of the day it is a 16-year-old girl that was being harassed verbally. Nobody wants to get this wrong. 

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Enough with the referees already! How is it a refs’ fault for parents failing to raise decent children?!  I’m sure there were parents (or family friends) of those student spectators at the game, and they did nothing. That’s who’s at fault!  One respected person in the stands could have stopped it. I’ve personally told students at games to cut the BS when they got out of hand. I’d rather one of their dads want to fight me over it than listen to that BS and have it be a reflection of me and my community!

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6 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Just so everybody is aware, I just spoke with the league. At minimum right now the Armstrong students are not allowed to attend the games. Tonight‘s game, possibly going forward. There will be a closed door executive committee meeting on Wednesday in which they will rule on further details. As I stated earlier, there are so many moving parts to this that at the end of the day it is a 16-year-old girl that was being harassed verbally. Nobody wants to get this wrong. 

I think you are going to see some great support for that 16 year old girl in the hockey community.  She has been playing goalie for mixed teams since she was 9 years old and a lot of kids have played with her and respect her.  Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this and stop things like this from happening before they get to this level in the future.  We are all responsible!

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1 hour ago, GrumpyOldPucker said:

I do have a comment to every one of you wanna-be supervisors bitching about the officials....

// Rant Mode ON

LACE 'EM UP AND GET OUT THERE AND PROVE THAT YOU CAN DO BETTER! NO EXCUSES LIKE "I CAN"T SKATE OR I WOULD"! PUT UP OR STFU ALREADY! I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY PROMISING YOUNG OFFICIALS I HAVE SEEN QUIT OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS BECAUSE OF YAHOOS LIKE YOU! I GUARANTEE THAT IT IS A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO SEE THE PLAY FROM THE TOP ROW THAN IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. THE DIFFERENCE IS LIKE WATCHING VIDEO IN SUPER SLOW MO ON A 60" SCREEN VS WATCHING ON FAST FORWARD THROUGH A FISHEY LENS. EVEN STANDING AGAINST THE GLASS IN THE CORNER IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT THAN BEING PART OF THE PLAY.

//Rant mode OFF

 

Grumpy, you’re way off base here.  This has literally nothing to do with the play on the ice.  Those two officials were aware of the fans harassing a female player, and they did nothing.  If those chants were directed at the officials, they’d have been gone in 2 minutes no question. 

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21 hours ago, Ynot02 said:

I would agree if this was about the play on the ice. It is not. Officials stop games for spectator issues all the time. If this was directed at either of them, it would not have been tolerated. What happened goes way beyond “ref you suck” or “call it both ways” - comments that I have seen games stopped and spectators thrown out for. I usually side with officials, but not this time.

Let's be clear - I AM NOT CONDONING the boorish behavior that started this thread but "non-participants" have interjected themselves since the first athletic competition in human history. We all agree that they went way over the line and it is happening more and more frequently. To be perfectly honest, the on ice officials really should not be involving themselves - at all - with spectators. There should be security on site that handles any spectator issues. Since the officials have authority over the (actual) game, "people" seem to expect them to "do something" to make stop whatever behavior is offending them whether it's actually their responsibility or not. Trust me, the officials would like nothing better than to just concentrate on calling the game. 

That said, I recall that the PIHL had wording in their league rules specifically giving the on ice officials the "power" to do whatever is needed to maintain control of a game including stopping\suspending play. I do not know if this wording is still in place.

 

My rant was solely directed and the constant ref bashing that goes on by know-it-alls that HAVE NOT, CANNOT and WILL NOT ever attempt to do the job. I will reiterate..... What will all of you do when nobody will put on the stripes anymore?

Edited by Paul Baxter
Removed profanity.
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The blame fall mostly on security.  Kids will do dumb things.  That does not mean it is acceptable.  That is way security is paid to be at highschool games.  If the officials stopped the game Everytime kids at highschool games yell stupid things it would happen about every game.  I go to several a year and see it about every time.  If security is not going to handle it what the hell are they being paid for.  Security should have be standing there and tossed the kids chanting it.  That is where the blame lies.  

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"My rant was solely directed and the constant ref bashing that goes on by know-it-all ass hats that HAVE NOT, CANNOT and WILL NOT ever attempt to do the job. I will reiterate..... What will all of you do when nobody will put on the stripes anymore?"

 

SO TRUE Grumpy!  The stripes are the most important people and there is no way that they get paid enough for what they do and have to endure so that our kids can play the game. I do disagree with them at times but I always respect what they do.

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20 minutes ago, stickboy said:

Enough with the referees already! How is it a refs’ fault for parents failing to raise decent children?!  I’m sure there were parents (or family friends) of those student spectators at the game, and they did nothing. That’s who’s at fault!  One respected person in the stands could have stopped it. I’ve personally told students at games to cut the BS when they got out of hand. I’d rather one of their dads want to fight me over it than listen to that BS and have it be a reflection of me and my community!

Trego is an awful ref but you can’t put this on any of those guys. They have enough stuff to deal with on the ice along with looney parents from time to time. 

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3 minutes ago, Carl Racki said:

The blame fall mostly on security.  Kids will do dumb things.  That does not mean it is acceptable.  That is way security is paid to be at highschool games.  If the officials stopped the game Everytime kids at highschool games yell stupid things it would happen about every game.  I go to several a year and see it about every time.  If security is not going to handle it what the hell are they being paid for.  Security should have be standing there and tossed the kids chanting it.  That is where the blame lies.  

The blame is on the kids! The blame is on their parents!  IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER STARTED.  What ever happened to respect for others?

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I am the mom of the mars goalie. I unfortunately  was not at the game on Thursday, although  I am glad considering the events that took place. She is extremely resilient and is doing fine. She refused to say she was upset. She said all the players on the Armstrong team are friends of hers and were very upset by this. We have gotten a phone call from both the mars  and Armstrong administration.  Armstrong  was very apologetic. 

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1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I think you are going to see some great support for that 16 year old girl in the hockey community.  She has been playing goalie for mixed teams since she was 9 years old and a lot of kids have played with her and respect her.  Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this and stop things like this from happening before they get to this level in the future.  We are all responsible!

My daughter was the goalie. She has been on skates since she could walk. Has been playing hockey for as long as I can remember! Eats, sleeps and breathes  hockey. No amount of harassment will keep her from playing. She has handled this way better than I have. 

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6 minutes ago, Lisa redepennimg said:

My daughter was the goalie. She has been on skates since she could walk. Has been playing hockey for as long as I can remember! Eats, sleeps and breathes  hockey. No amount of harassment will keep her from playing. She has handled this way better than I have. 

She’s got nothing but high praise from us when we’ve called her games, good to hear that she’s handling it. As somebody who battled anxiety and social issues my entire life I couldn’t even imagine. 

Edited by Mitch
Got caught doing the repeater
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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

"My rant was solely directed and the constant ref bashing that goes on by know-it-all ass hats that HAVE NOT, CANNOT and WILL NOT ever attempt to do the job. I will reiterate..... What will all of you do when nobody will put on the stripes anymore?"

 

SO TRUE Grumpy!  The stripes are the most important people and there is no way that they get paid enough for what they do and have to endure so that our kids can play the game. I do disagree with them at times but I always respect what they do.

Without Referee's, it's just recess.

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